Alec Baldwin did what?

Cmaier

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Looks like the Line Producer and the Production Manager cared more about saving money and using inexperienced staff members prone to mistakes.

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Sounds like he was supposed to be aiming the gun at the camera, and that it went off by accident.
 

SuperMatt

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New details here:


Sounds like he was supposed to be aiming the gun at the camera, and that it went off by accident.
I told you the director knew about the camera crew quitting. And yet he didn’t stop shooting to look at the safety concerns. If I was a camera operator, on a movie set that already had negligent discharges, and a scene with a gun pointed at a camera, I would quit too. His negligence almost cost him his own life. Unfortunately, the cinematographer died instead and he just got a flesh wound. He should never direct a movie again. Directors are already cavalier about safety as it is, but this guy takes it to a whole new level.

Considering the possible danger of a firearm, why was a real firearm being used in rehearsal at all? If one truly cared about safety, there would be a toy gun for rehearsals, and for the actual shot, they’d give the real weapon (and make sure it’s unloaded), start filming, and have everybody move away from the camera just in case. Nope. Terrible director.
 

Cmaier

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I told you the director knew about the camera crew quitting. And yet he didn’t stop shooting to look at the safety concerns. If I was a camera operator, on a movie set that already had negligent discharges, and a scene with a gun pointed at a camera, I would quit too. His negligence almost cost him his own life. Unfortunately, the cinematographer died instead and he just got a flesh wound. He should never direct a movie again. Directors are already cavalier about safety as it is, but this guy takes it to a whole new level.

Considering the possible danger of a firearm, why was a real firearm being used in rehearsal at all? If one truly cared about safety, there would be a toy gun for rehearsals, and for the actual shot, they’d give the real weapon (and make sure it’s unloaded), start filming, and have everybody move away from the camera just in case. Nope. Terrible director.

Yep.

The one thing I am most curious about is what were live rounds doing anywhere near there?
 

SuperMatt

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Yep.

The one thing I am most curious about is what were live rounds doing anywhere near there?
Blank rounds look different than live rounds... I cannot believe a firearms expert could confuse the two. They said the production was being rushed and they were cutting corners constantly. Unless live rounds were being used in some part of the movie, there should not have been any on set. Was it a live round that went off? Or was it a blank that misfired and sent shrapnel? Sounds like a live round...
 

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I told you the director knew about the camera crew quitting. And yet he didn’t stop shooting to look at the safety concerns. If I was a camera operator, on a movie set that already had negligent discharges, and a scene with a gun pointed at a camera, I would quit too. His negligence almost cost him his own life. Unfortunately, the cinematographer died instead and he just got a flesh wound. He should never direct a movie again. Directors are already cavalier about safety as it is, but this guy takes it to a whole new level.

Considering the possible danger of a firearm, why was a real firearm being used in rehearsal at all? If one truly cared about safety, there would be a toy gun for rehearsals, and for the actual shot, they’d give the real weapon (and make sure it’s unloaded), start filming, and have everybody move away from the camera just in case. Nope. Terrible director.
Productions have varying command hierarchies. Fundamentally, the job of the director is to get the very best dialog and action sequences into the camera, not oversee every aspect of the operation. The Best Picture award does not go to directors but to producers, who are usually at the top of the food chain. Baldwin had a production title, as an "executive" producer, which means he was involved in the finance aspect of the operation, not so much in the management aspect, but he still has a little more culpability than the director, in that he nominally okayed the decision to use scabs to crew the shoot.
 

Cmaier

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Blank rounds look different than live rounds... I cannot believe a firearms expert could confuse the two. They said the production was being rushed and they were cutting corners constantly. Unless live rounds were being used in some part of the movie, there should not have been any on set. Was it a live round that went off? Or was it a blank that misfired and sent shrapnel? Sounds like a live round...
It does sound like it was a live round, and I can’t imagine they were using live rounds for any purpose
 

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I am curious about the way this story is being covered, or discussed, or reported, (and not just here) and I confess that I am also fascinated about how the tone of coverage - or, the treatment - has differed from that of the Gabby Petito story.

So, yes: Among other things, this thread title irks me.

(And that is something I wish to return to, in the other thread: The whole disturbing, unpleasant and unsettling concept of "Deserving" victims, and the matter of whose death is covered, described, given news space or considered important; In other words - and this did come up in that thread - would the media and public attention have been so - almost salacious - in its intensity, if the victim had not been a young, attractive, white, middle-class woman, for other women, women who are people of colour, older women, poorer women, might not have merited the same degree of salacious sympathy in the news coverage; and that, too, begs questions of what a given society chooses to define as a "deserving victim", coupled with the almost sadistic and insanely detailed glee with which such murders are often reported).

Leaving aside the truly bizarre - yet weirdly intimate - relationship with guns (aka 2A stuff) which flavours every story involving the use of (or abuse of) firearms in the US - and, that does beg questions along the lines of: If guns are so widely available and frequently used in the US, why are safety protocols re the use of firearms anywhere - swimming pools, restaurants, pubs, theatres, schools, movie sets - not as automatic, well drilled, practised, and as natural as breathing?

Anyway, I will confess that when I first read the story, my initial reaction was almost a tired shrug - a shrug which conveyed, what is new, here?

This is because the trope of "Privileged white dude shoots someone" is really rather tired, or rather, I am tired of it.

If "privileged white dude" shoots a woman, person of colour, or someone who is considered to be an unimportant individual, well, in the context of US socio-economic and political culture, seriously, what is the story? This happens everday without consequence. It only becomes truly interesting (and a bit of a challenge for "privileged white dude") when privileged white dude shoots (and kills) another privileged white dude. But, that is not what we have here.

And, while the other thread named Gabby Petito (and it is tellingly rare for murdered women, or, women who are killed violently, and a bullet ranks - to my mind, irrespective of whether it was accidental or not - as a violent death - to be named - for, the focus is usually on the deeply distraught - male - killer, who is treated sympathetically, his actions excused and explained, if white, and condemned and punished, if a person of colour), I think it instructive that I have to consult a news story, look online, to remind myself of the name of the dead, the killed, cinematographer - it is Halyna Hutchins, for the record, - whereas every bloody news story, thread, reference is about Alec Baldwin.

Frankly, I am sick and tired of reading about Alec Baldwin. With an actor's ego, this is running the risk of becoming all about him, and not about the two people he shot, killing one while injuring the other.

Above all, I do not want to have to endure - let alone suffer - the sort of self-centred interviews on talk shows in the future, where a lacrymose Alec Baldwin bawls his eyes out while sobbing about how stressed, and upset and traumatised he is because of all of this.

Let us shift the focus just a little: Let us imagine the media and public reaction if a black actor, someone such as Samuel L Jackson, or Morgan Freeman, or Avery Brooks, did this.

Would it be quite so forgiving? Quite so swift to fluently explain away, or excuse, this action as an "accident"? Quite so rapid in finding the finger of blame pointed towards a convenient Other (armourer, untrained person, idiot)?

Or, let us imagine a female actor - someone such as Uma Thurman, or Helen Mirren, or, the late, great, Diana Rigg - these names occur because all three have played characters who "kicked ass" and indeed, wielded weaponry in some of the roles they played - doing such a stupid thing as pointing a gun, and shooting someone dead on a set. No, I can't imagine it either.

To my mind, it is almost irrelevant whether this was accidental or deliberate; it was careless, casual, outrageously irresponsible, disrespectful of others and utterly and atrociously and appallingly unprofessional.

"White male privilege" means that only privileged white males get to be this irresponsible, and be excused their conduct because the rest of the world, as always, cleans up after their mistakes, while the story that is told is still about them, their feelings, their trauma, their upset, while they leave the shattered and crushed and destroyed lives of irrelevant people in their wake and wander their way through life, all the while never being made accountable for their actions.
 
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SuperMatt

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To my mind, it is almost irrelevant whether this was accidental or deliberate; it was careless, casual, irresponsible, disrespectful of others and utterly and atrociously and appallingly unprofessional.

"White male privilege" means that only privileged white males get to be this irresponsible, and be excused their conduct because the rest of the world, as always, cleans up after their mistakes, while the story thta is told is still about them, their feelings, their trauma, their upset, while they leave the shattered and crushed lives of irrelevant people in their wake and wander their way through life, while never made accountable for their actions.
I agree with you on this. That is why I have been beating the drum about gun safety lectures given to every actor on every set every time there is even a toy gun involved. An experienced actor like Baldwin knows better than to point a weapon in the direction of a person for any reason.

If you’ve worked in the entertainment industry, you know there is ZERO excuse for Baldwin’s actions, nor the director’s for having Baldwin rehearse with humans behind the camera. You can see why the camera crew quit - one of them could have died instead of Ms. Hutchins. They quit because they knew their lives were in danger.

Neither Baldwin nor Souza should work in film ever again.
 

Herdfan

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Blank rounds look different than live rounds... I cannot believe a firearms expert could confuse the two. They said the production was being rushed and they were cutting corners constantly. Unless live rounds were being used in some part of the movie, there should not have been any on set. Was it a live round that went off? Or was it a blank that misfired and sent shrapnel? Sounds like a live round...

Yes, blanks are flush on top where live rounds have the projectile up and over the casing. And you could teach a 1st grader to tell the difference. I may have some blanks around and if so, I will post a pic. I know I have live rounds. :D


Read an article today that said the crew was using the guns for target practice after hours and that live ammo was stored beside blanks. That is a huge NO-NO! SMDH.
 

Herdfan

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I agree with you on this. That is why I have been beating the drum about gun safety lectures given to every actor on every set every time there is even a toy gun involved. An experienced actor like Baldwin knows better than to point a weapon in the direction of a person for any reason.
Why do you think he pointed it at her?

I have seen a few pics of her sitting behind a camera, which as cinematographer she probably would be. Now think how many TV shows and movies you have seen where the camera is pointing right at the person firing the weapon and seeing the muzzle flash as they fire.. So I think he was pointing it at the camera per the director's instructions and she was behind said camera. I do not think he was pointing it at her specifically.
 

SuperMatt

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Why do you think he pointed it at her?

I have seen a few pics of her sitting behind a camera, which as cinematographer she probably would be. Now think how many TV shows and movies you have seen where the camera is pointing right at the person firing the weapon and seeing the muzzle flash as they fire.. So I think he was pointing it at the camera per the director's instructions and she was behind said camera. I do not think he was pointing it at her specifically.
Nobody should be behind the camera when that is happening. Set it, run the shot, put the gun safely away, and then re-set the camera for another shot if needed.
 

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I'm on a few industry lists/groups. This is a copy/paste of what was recently shared.

Info For those not in the film/tv industry:

Regarding the recent tragedy on the film set of “Rust”.

Here is a rundown of how a gun should travel from the Property lockup to set, and back:
• A trained Property person removes the weapon from the gun safe, they “clear” the gun; checking that the barrel is unobstructed, and the magazine is empty. Professional Property Persons will habitually clear a weapon every single time it passes into their hands.
As a hard rule, there is never any live ammunition allowed in the lockup, on the Prop truck, on stage, or inside any filming location.
• The gun arrives in the stage or the location and is either secured in a locking cabinet or retained in the possession of, and under the control of, the Property person. It is certainly lever left unattended in plain view on a prop cart.
• Prior to rehearsal the Prop person clears the weapon in the presence of:
1. The first Assistant Director
2. Any person the gun may get aimed at, including both cast & crew
3. The actor who will be handling the weapon in the scene
This gives everyone confidence that the weapon is “cold,” meaning it is unloaded.
The standard admonition given to the actor when handing off a gun includes:
1. Treat every weapon as if it is loaded
2. Practice muzzle control
3. Keep the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard until ready to fire
• An actor is always explicitly told “Hot Gun” or “Cold Gun” by the Weapons Handler every. Single. Time.
• During the rehearsal actors verbally call out their shots to ascertain where everyone will be when the shots are fired and make certain that no one, cast or crew, is in the direct line of fire and/or too close. No blanks are EVER used in rehearsal. This is the time to ensure that the scene can be shot safely. If an actor feels that they need to practice with their gun they are given time to train under the supervision of a trained Property Person, away from the set area. The 1st AD is the final authority on safety, but any crew member can express their concerns.
• When it comes time to shoot the scene, the Property Person/Weapons Handler loads the magazine for the weapon with the required number of blanks for that shot. The weapon is made “hot” [the magazine inserted and a round chambered] only when cameras are ready to roll, and the Handler announces “Fire in the hole” followed by how many shots will be fired. At no time should a “hot” weapon be loaded with more rounds than are needed for the take. Sometimes an AD will want to be able to shoot multiple takes without cutting and ask for a fully loaded weapon. This is a hard no. Stunt performers sometimes ask for a fully loaded weapon so they can ad lib. This is a hard no.
• When the cameras cut the Weapons Handler retrieves the weapon from the actor and immediately clears it. If there is a stovepipe misfire or any type of jamming in the weapon it is removed from set to be checked for malfunction. Good policy dictates that if there are multiple guns on set that each Weapons Handler is expected to manage no more than 3 guns at most. More weapons means more Handlers. When the scene is completed all weapons are cleared and promptly returned to a gun safe or other lockup.
 

shadow puppet

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From the vigil held for Halyna last night in Burbank, CA.

245959713_2096941343806845_3075994780931821058_n.jpg


248586633_10159857451234935_1365763052990653525_n.jpg
 

ericwn

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The implication that he may have done this out of anger is ridiculous. I could just as easily say "he also ate live puppies behind the barn, WE DON'T KNOW".

Let's be realistic here. It was a prop gun on a movie set filled with people, it's also likely all caught on film.

I agree. Besides, in dubio pro reo.
 

ronntaylor

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New details here:


Sounds like he was supposed to be aiming the gun at the camera, and that it went off by accident.

Yes, as part of the rehearsal and set up for the actual filming later. What stood out for me was

Mr. Russell [a cameraman who was standing near Ms. Hutchins and Mr. Souza when the gun discharged] said that Mr. Baldwin had been “very careful” with the firearm; during an earlier scene, Mr. Russell said, Mr. Baldwin had tried to ensure safety on set, making sure that a child wasn’t near him when he was discharging the gun. Asked about how members of the production team were behaving as they set up the scene, he said “everyone seemed to be getting along.”

I also read this from The NY Times a couple times:


“Dave [Halls, First Assistant Director] doesn’t always follow the rules,” said Antonia Bogdanovich, a director who worked with Mr. Halls on the crime caper “Phantom Halo.” Ms. Bogdanovich described how tempers had flared on the set after Mr. Halls, who was an assistant director on that film, pressured the crew to work beyond established timetables.

The 1AD truly fucked up as he was in charge of gun safety in this instance and it appears he didn't follow safety protocol by rechecking the gun before handling it to Baldwin. In usual circumstances the armorer rechecks and has the 1AD check as well before handing the gun to the actor for a scene themselves. Due to COVID-19 safety protocols it looks like that was changed to the 1AD being the point person to hand the gun to the actors after checking and then yelling out "cold gun!" The armorer is still at fault as there should have been a check regardless of who ultimately hands off the gun. Live ammo should be nowhere near the set and if rumors of crew members using the guns for target practice are true, she should be found culpable for what happened.

IMO, the labor dispute was mostly about pay (or lack thereof), inadequate and/or no hotels for production staff, and safety concerns in regard to extremely long working hours and having to drive home an hour+ after 12-14 hour workdays. The Line Producer was specifically named as she was the money person and responsible for taking care of those issues. The unit Production Manager was in charge of hiring and would be the point person for any labor concerns/issues. Alec Baldwin was reportedly very good with safety concerns and is a veteran with multiple movies where he handled prop guns. That's why he was so devastated after the shooting and mentioned how he had never been given a live gun in his entire career.
 

shadow puppet

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No AD should touch a gun on a working set. The armorer and the prop master are in charge & in custody, of the weapon. An AD can ask to see that the gun is checked but that would be the 1st AD. There should be no confusion about this from anyone who works in film, AD's do not handle guns.

Bill Bennett, a highly regarded DoP I've been fortunate to work with, in his own words "live ammunition should be nowhere near a film set, and all guns being used in filmmaking should be locked up by the Armorer and not touched by anyone except the Armorer."

Bill shared the following with our industry group:

"there is a second type of cartridge commonly found on film sets, the “Dummy” cartridge, which outwardly looks like “live” ammo, with the projectile, aka bullet, on the front, but contains *no gunpowder*, has a fired primer (evidenced by a depression or dimple in the center of the primer from the gun’s firing pin striking it to fire the primer, before it is converted by the Armorer from "live" ammo to "dummy" ammo,) and contains a small steel BB or ball. The purpose of the BB or small steel ball inside the casing, is so the armorer can prove to themselves, and everyone on set before the scene with gun use, that the cartridge in indeed “dummy” ammo, by shaking the cartridge so they can hear the BB rattling around inside. If it were “live” ammo, filled with gunpowder, you would hear nothing, as there would be no BB inside. The armorer also looks at the primer of each cartridge to make sure it has a depression in the center, proving it had been previously fired, with the dimple in the center. All of these protocols should have taken place before the gun was handed to Alec Baldwin.

Why are "dummy" cartridges even necessary? A pistol that has a revolving "cylinder" that contains the ammunition, has several openings in the front, where you can see the front of the projectiles or bullets that are loaded in the gun. If a scene is blocked where the camera can see the front of the pistol in closeup, it will be obvious to the audience that the gun is not "loaded" with ammo. So, these "dummy" ammo cartridges are created for use in these situations. You can see the fronts of the projectiles as the bright silver disks, in the photo of a .45 Colt revolver in the attached photo. If there were no dummy cartridges loaded into the cylinder, those openings would be black, showing the gun to be empty."

No photo description available.

"Here is a photo of the rear of two cartridges. The cartridge on the left has not been fired, as evidenced by the smooth surface of the primer, the small silver disk in the center. That is a "live" round, and has no place on a film set. The cartridge on the right has been fired in a gun, as evidenced by the dimple in the center of the primer. All "dummy" cartridges used on set should have the dimple in the center of the primer, proving that the cartridge has been previously fired, and incapable of being fired again. If this dimple has not been shown to you by the Armorer, prior to a gun being used with "dummy" ammo in it, ask the Armorer to show it to you. And, like I said before, there should be a BB or small steel ball inside the casing of a "dummy" ammo cartridge, that can be heard when the cartridge is shaken."

May be an image of text that says 'Centerfire Bullet Head of Casing Firing Pin Imprint'
 
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