Electric Vehicles: General topics

[SuperMatt]

I'm new to EVs and might be considering an Ioniq 5 in the future. Pretty sure I'll be OK regarding range anxiety living in the SF Bay Area, and taking an occasional long trip.

Regarding EV's in general, anybody concerned about breaking down in areas far from home where repairs (whatever that might be) are not available. Get a long distance tow back home and deal with it later? Any issues with towing EVs (flatbed, etc)?

Thanks for any insight!

Mine came with 7 years or 70K miles roadside assistance included... I think this was meant to reassure people with range anxiety.

 

[Eric]

Mine came with 7 years or 70K miles roadside assistance included... I think this was meant to reassure people with range anxiety.

I liken it to running out of gas, if one is taking a long drive through a barren part of the country with no plan then that's on them. Outside of that there are charging stations everywhere, at worst it'll cost you extra time at a slower charger but even then you can use it for a boost to get to a supercharger.

 

[DT]

@Tesla_Peoplez ...

2022.4.5 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2022.4.5 includes Car Colorizer, Audio Sources, Icons in Status Bar, Save Dashcam Clips, Regenerative Braking in Autopilot, Sonic the Hedgehog, Windshield Wiper Defrost, Tire Pressure API, Nearby Superchargers, TeslaMic and KTV, Traffic Along Route, NetEase Cloud Music...

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[quagmire]

@Tesla_Peoplez ...

2022.4.5 Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates

Tesla software update 2022.4.5 includes Car Colorizer, Audio Sources, Icons in Status Bar, Save Dashcam Clips, Regenerative Braking in Autopilot, Sonic the Hedgehog, Windshield Wiper Defrost, Tire Pressure API, Nearby Superchargers, TeslaMic and KTV, Traffic Along Route, NetEase Cloud Music...

www.notateslaapp.com

View attachment 11658

Nooooo!

No longer update buddies….

Unless the app is not showing the update… Has happened before.

EDIT: Yep.... Had to go to the car to have the update pop up. Downloading now.

 

[DT]

Nooooo!

No longer update buddies….

Unless the app is not showing the update… Has happened before.

EDIT: Yep.... Had to go to the car to have the update pop up. Downloading now.

Yeah, I initialized this one from the car, haven't done that for the past few. I wasn't really even thinking about it, I was backing it in, listening to Spoonman, and checked

(It shows on various connected services once it started / including starting the actual update).

 

[User.45]

I'm not sure who the "we" is (maybe it's a royal we ), but since our TM3 is the same price/monthly as the previous car, [slightly] lower insurance, and is currently costing notably less in consumables, I'm definitely spending less money on this vehicle. Whether you do or not really depends on your driving habits, charging costs/availability, your typical car price point and how long you keep a car vs. long term costs.

No here I consider this a fairly objective assessment. What you’re referring to is not actual money saved, it’s just redistribution of luxury funds. Couple of days ago I checked out how much Mercedes I can get for the price of any of these cars, and My impression was that a lot Of Mercedes. Not that it’s my type of car. My father’s fully spec’d E-series has a painfully stiff suspension for my taste.

My frame of reference for saving is a 2003 Honda Civic hybrid, which I bought for 1200 bucks from a colleague. Took you from point a to B and my wife squeezed out 60 mpg’s from it consistently. These long range EVs are in the luxury price range, and while I share the values of emission reduction, I think it's important to point out that these cars still exceed the median income of Americans.

 

[DT]

Not the case at all: I have a fixed car allocation, I have for ~20 years, and it's been very consistent, other than the consumables.

You're talking about a totally different market segment comparisons. Payment, insurance the same, fuel costs, significantly cheaper due to being an EV. You have to keep in mind, my vehicle is also my hobbie, what I enjoy, my "fun" thing, I will stay consistent in the price segment, so my variation is in the costs for operation.

 

[cloudflare420]

I'm not sure who the "we" is (maybe it's a royal we ), but since our TM3 is the same price/monthly as the previous car, [slightly] lower insurance, and is currently costing notably less in consumables, I'm definitely spending less money on this vehicle. Whether you do or not really depends on your driving habits, charging costs/availability, your typical car price point and how long you keep a car vs. long term costs.

Yeah, I was just looking at my stats and only paid $11.67 for charging last month. Drove 700+ miles. There are savings to be had.

 

[User.45]

Not the case at all: I have a fixed car allocation, I have for ~20 years, and it's been very consistent, other than the consumables.

You're talking about a totally different market segment comparisons. Payment, insurance the same, fuel costs, significantly cheaper due to being an EV. You have to keep in mind, my vehicle is also my hobbie, what I enjoy, my "fun" thing, I will stay consistent in the price segment, so my variation is in the costs for operation.

I.e. your goal isn't saving. That was my original point. None of us bought an EV to save money. Considering how fast these cars go obsolete (and this is where Teslas excel), the devaluation of EVs will not offset the fuel savings.

 

[DT]

I.e. your goal isn't saving. That was my original point. None of us bought an EV to save money.

I really like the reduction in consumables cost, you have to keep in mind I've driven performance vehicles that got 15-18MPG that required 93 octane gas, so I'd consider it one perk of several, that factored into my overall decision to go with an EV. Was it my primary motivator? Maybe not, but I wouldn't completely dismiss it as a non-contributor.

I get that cost reduction can be through other means, but my point is given two vehicles, with everything else equal, I'd choose the lower cost operation - that an EV has several advantages is all the better, and you can't really isolate __just__ the operation cost reduction, because that's bundled up with convenience, no emissions, superior design elements (ex: more interior space), etc.

i.e., if you said, here's car A, it has X performance, Y purchase cost, Z other-meta-attributes, and N operating costs, and car B has X performance, Y purchase cost, Z other-meta-attributes but N * 0.25 cost, I'd choose the latter. You suggested there's no money to be saved, but everything else equal, operation costs are lower.

 

[DT]

Nooooo!

No longer update buddies….

Unless the app is not showing the update… Has happened before.

EDIT: Yep.... Had to go to the car to have the update pop up. Downloading now.

Finally took a look (hahaha, we left while it was still updating, used the 4xe ...)

OK, this is definitely a good improvement to V11, restoring the Profiles and Sentry to the top (while parked) works nicely, and the WiFi at the top when connected, also good. Losing a quick touchscreen option for saving a dashcam video definitely needed an improvement, while you could add it to the quick access tray, is only opened it, now it's contextual, opens if stopped, saves if driving, that's pretty perfect.

I'm not seeing the wiper defrost, but I think that requires specific, new hardware (and it's not like I need it )

The updates to the Supercharger info on the nav is excellent, now it not only shows stalls/available, but power/charging capacity, and you can toggle non-SuCs now, so like L2 destination charging.

 

[SuperMatt]

I.e. your goal isn't saving. That was my original point. None of us bought an EV to save money. Considering how fast these cars go obsolete (and this is where Teslas excel), the devaluation of EVs will not offset the fuel savings.

I did buy it to save money. My old car was falling apart, and I needed a new one. With the federal tax credit, local tax exemption, low maintenance, and non-existent fuel cost, I figured out I would save a lot, and I have.

 

[DT]

I was thinking about this over the last couple of [cold] months, it's a huge perk for for an EV that gets parked in a garage. In fact, I'd say there are probably quite a few things that potential buyers might not factor in, kind of "side perks" of an EV.

You can run it in a closed garage, i.e., run the heat (or AC for that matter). I even do this with our PHEV (since it idles on battery only), like I did this morning. We hop in the Jeep for school drop off, the interior temp is nice, the seats are warm - and best of all, nobody dies from CO poisoning

 

[Eric]

I am still working out some of the differences with FSD, one of them is "Navigate on Autopilot", of course if you already have FSD its doing the lane changing for you so the only real difference I can see here is that it will navigate onramps and offramps, is that right?

Their wording makes it seem like something more than this and frankly unless you read up on all of it the whole thing is twisted and confusing. It would be one thing if the technology came with the car but they want $12K for it now and IMO that's laughable for what you get.

BTW I can still love the car, which I do, and question this piece of it. They lack clear explanations of differences, nobody would get in the car and say "oh yeah, that's obvious" to any of this stuff and it's a machine you'll be cruising down the road in at freeway speeds as you scratch your head and fuck with buttons.

 

[Herdfan]

I've been driving around for free for 5 years now, LOL. I got so used to it by now, looking at someone's $13 dollar charging bill makes me shudder. I have free DC fast charging down the corner, and if that's busy, another one 5 blocks down.

I know Tesla pays for some charging stations for their cars, but who is paying for all these free charger stations.

My neighbor who has a Tesla works for the state and can charge for free in the garage and other companies do the same, but who is paying for free public chargers? And how long will they be free?

 

[User.45]

I know Tesla pays for some charging stations for their cars, but who is paying for all these free charger stations.

My neighbor who has a Tesla works for the state and can charge for free in the garage and other companies do the same, but who is paying for free public chargers? And how long will they be free?

As far as I recall it's a state initiative. There are bunch of places where the parking lot has a solar panels that provide shade and supply chargers too. You could actually recognize progressive states by these initiatives. The state is full of EVs but I live in the city where street parking dominates, which is unsuitable for shorter range EVs; hence the lack of competition for free fast chargers.

I really like the reduction in consumables cost, you have to keep in mind I've driven performance vehicles that got 15-18MPG that required 93 octane gas, so I'd consider it one perk of several, that factored into my overall decision to go with an EV. Was it my primary motivator? Maybe not, but I wouldn't completely dismiss it as a non-contributor.

I get that cost reduction can be through other means, but my point is given two vehicles, with everything else equal, I'd choose the lower cost operation - that an EV has several advantages is all the better, and you can't really isolate __just__ the operation cost reduction, because that's bundled up with convenience, no emissions, superior design elements (ex: more interior space), etc.

i.e., if you said, here's car A, it has X performance, Y purchase cost, Z other-meta-attributes, and N operating costs, and car B has X performance, Y purchase cost, Z other-meta-attributes but N * 0.25 cost, I'd choose the latter. You suggested there's no money to be saved, but everything else equal, operation costs are lower.

I did buy it to save money. My old car was falling apart, and I needed a new one. With the federal tax credit, local tax exemption, low maintenance, and non-existent fuel cost, I figured out I would save a lot, and I have.

Alright, alright, I concede! @DT, extrapolating your present milage and assuming a real gas guzzler as the alternative, you save ~$8K on gas in 5 years. With my milage and comparing it to my old Prius or Civic Hybrid, it would be no more than ~$2-3K saving in 5 years. @SuperMatt considering the ~$5K annual depreciation of my car, a low-maintenance Prius is a much better investment. Yet again, my frame of reference is not driving at all and walking/biking whenever possible because the only real zero emission transport and works just fine in European cities. I like public transport too, because I can get a lot of work done on a bus. But >$2 for a bus/metro ride means public transport in the cities I've lived in is more expensive than the maintenance of an EV.

 

[Eric]

So I've enrolled into FSD and gave it a try for the first time today. I drove down several well known streets with a variety of stop lights and stop signs, with two different roundabouts.

Stop lights:
It slowed or stopped at every single green light I came across, maybe a dozen or so, to the point it was unusable and I had to shut if off because people kept honking at me.

Stop signs:
Stopped but would not take off without intervention, this happened with every one so I assume it must be a default.

Lane changing:
It did not get a single lane change right, it would say "take this lane" and then when it wouldn't move into it automatically, it fought me when I tried to do it manually. When I left it alone and it missed the turning lane it just kept going and attempted to backtrack to get back on its navigation path.

Roundabouts:
In both cases it stopped in the middle of the roundabout by hard breaking and screaming alarms at me.

Safety Score after my first trip is now 73, I assume this is not good since they say you need 99? I literally did none of the hard breaking or aggressive turning on my own, the car did that all itself trying to navigate itself through the roundabouts and missed lane changes and forcing me to bust out of it.



Overall, with the exception of the assumed behavior at stop sights, this thing failed 100% of the time.

 

[User.45]

So I've enrolled into FSD and gave it a try for the first time today. I drove down several well known streets with a variety of stop lights and stop signs, with two different roundabouts.

Stop lights:
It slowed or stopped at every single green light I came across, maybe a dozen or so, to the point it was unusable and I had to shut if off because people kept honking at me.

Stop signs:
Stopped but would not take off without intervention, this happened with every one so I assume it must be a default.

Lane changing:
It did not get a single lane change right, it would say "take this lane" and then when it wouldn't move into it automatically, it fought me when I tried to do it manually. When I left it alone and it missed the turning lane it just kept going and attempted to backtrack to get back on its navigation path.

Roundabouts:
In both cases it stopped in the middle of the roundabout by hard breaking and screaming alarms at me.

Safety Score after my first trip is now 73, I assume this is not good since they say you need 99? I literally did none of the hard breaking or aggressive turning on my own, the car did that all itself trying to navigate itself through the roundabouts and missed lane changes and forcing me to bust out of it.

View attachment 11691

Overall, with the exception of the assumed behavior at stop sights, this thing failed 100% of the time.

Holy shit

 

[DT]

Alright, alright, I concede! @DT, extrapolating your present milage and assuming a real gas guzzler as the alternative, you save ~$8K on gas in 5 years.

But I also realize that I may be a bit of an outlier. At one point I had a 55 gallon drum of VP C16 gas ($10/g) in my shed

 

[DT]

Safety Score after my first trip is now 73 [...]

I wonder a how a track mode, full rear bias 60MPH sideways drift affects the safety score ...