EV- Electric Vehicle Talk

[Cmaier]

Tesla Is Looking to Hire a Team to Remotely Control Its 'Self-Driving' Robotaxis

Elon Musk's "fully autonomous" cars will, like other robotaxi vehicles, rely on remote human pilots.

gizmodo.com

 

[rdrr]

Anyone looking at a VW ID Buzz? I saw a few in Bergen Norway this summer and I like the look of them, more nostalgia than anything else.

I know that they are now available in the US but I have yet to see one on the road in Boston. Would like to know how the US version fairs against other EVs, especially on the real world range.

 

[Cmaier]

Anyone looking at a VW ID Buzz? I saw a few in Bergen Norway this summer and I like the look of them, more nostalgia than anything else.

I know that they are now available in the US but I have yet to see one on the road in Boston. Would like to know how the US version fairs against other EVs, especially on the real world range.

my wife is in love with them and desperately wanted one, but she seems to be changing her mind. Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

 

[Herdfan]

Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

But shouldn’t that be partially offset by it being able to carry more batteries?

 

[rdrr]

my wife is in love with them and desperately wanted one, but she seems to be changing her mind. Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

That was my first thought when I saw them. However since the Cybertruck came out, I thought that EV aerodynamics were extinct like the dinosaurs.

Edit: Okay corrected the Cybertruck does not horrible aerodynamics, it's just butt ugly.

 

[Nycturne]

But shouldn’t that be partially offset by it being able to carry more batteries?

Which is offset in the other direction by the extra weight of the extra batteries, and the heavier weight of the vehicle compared to say, the ID.4. But I’d also say that the VW MEB platform is probably one of the least efficient power -> thrust setups on the market overall. The Ioniq 5 / GV60 gets better range with more HP and a smaller battery, despite being a similar weight to the ID.4.

It also has a smaller battery pack than some of the other "throw batteries at it" platforms like GM’s (Ultim).

 

[Yoused]

If the paste batteries are as good as they are hyped to be, they will be a game-changer. More KWh/Kg (maybe 2x, maybe better than gasoline), better cycling endurance, faster charging, less burny. Probably somewhat overstated, but if you can get 80KWh into 450lbs, that would be 400 or 500 miles, instead of 300, due to the reduced mass.

It would be great if we could get retrofits, but business usually does not work like that.

 

[mr_roboto]

That was my first thought when I saw them. However since the Cybertruck came out, I thought that EV aerodynamics were extinct like the dinosaurs.

Edit: Okay corrected the Cybertruck does not horrible aerodynamics, it's just butt ugly.

The ID Buzz has a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.285, which is quite good actually.

The Cybertruck's chief fascism officer claims its Cd is 0.34, but he tells many lies, so who knows. There's a lot of reasons to expect that it's relatively bad. Big flat facets with sharp(ish) edges are generally bad for subsonic aero.

Cd is not the whole story, size matters too. The ID Buzz is 78.1" wide x 76.2" tall, or 5951 in^2 cross section. Cybertruck is 86.6"x70.5" = 6105 in^2.

Drag force is proportional to Cd * A where A is the "reference area" AKA the orthographic projection of the object in the plane perpendicular to its motion axis relative to the fluid. (Cd is also defined with reference to this axis.) A is what I calculated above, so I think it's safe to say the ID Buzz has significantly better aero than the Cyberturd.

Both should suffer in range relative to smaller EVs just because they're big and heavy.

 

[Nycturne]

Both should suffer in range relative to smaller EVs just because they're big and heavy.

Pretty much, and the Buzz has "only" 91 kWh (86 usable) in the long wheel base version the US gets, compared to 102kWh in something like the Lyriq and 123kWh in the Cybertruck or 131kWh in the F150 lightning extended range. Some of the smallest batteries in an ‘extended range’ variant when looking at larger EVs, plus the relatively inefficient power delivery.

The closest true comparison is the Kia EV9 though, which has a similar battery, but a couple hundred pounds less weight and noticeably more range.