EV- Electric Vehicle Talk

[Cmaier]

Tesla Is Looking to Hire a Team to Remotely Control Its 'Self-Driving' Robotaxis

Elon Musk's "fully autonomous" cars will, like other robotaxi vehicles, rely on remote human pilots.

gizmodo.com

 

[rdrr]

Anyone looking at a VW ID Buzz? I saw a few in Bergen Norway this summer and I like the look of them, more nostalgia than anything else.

I know that they are now available in the US but I have yet to see one on the road in Boston. Would like to know how the US version fairs against other EVs, especially on the real world range.

 

[Cmaier]

Anyone looking at a VW ID Buzz? I saw a few in Bergen Norway this summer and I like the look of them, more nostalgia than anything else.

I know that they are now available in the US but I have yet to see one on the road in Boston. Would like to know how the US version fairs against other EVs, especially on the real world range.

my wife is in love with them and desperately wanted one, but she seems to be changing her mind. Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

 

[Herdfan]

Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

But shouldn’t that be partially offset by it being able to carry more batteries?

 

[rdrr]

my wife is in love with them and desperately wanted one, but she seems to be changing her mind. Range seems to be not good (unsurprising given the shape).

That was my first thought when I saw them. However since the Cybertruck came out, I thought that EV aerodynamics were extinct like the dinosaurs.

Edit: Okay corrected the Cybertruck does not horrible aerodynamics, it's just butt ugly.

 

[Nycturne]

But shouldn’t that be partially offset by it being able to carry more batteries?

Which is offset in the other direction by the extra weight of the extra batteries, and the heavier weight of the vehicle compared to say, the ID.4. But I’d also say that the VW MEB platform is probably one of the least efficient power -> thrust setups on the market overall. The Ioniq 5 / GV60 gets better range with more HP and a smaller battery, despite being a similar weight to the ID.4.

It also has a smaller battery pack than some of the other "throw batteries at it" platforms like GM’s (Ultim).

 

[Yoused]

If the paste batteries are as good as they are hyped to be, they will be a game-changer. More KWh/Kg (maybe 2x, maybe better than gasoline), better cycling endurance, faster charging, less burny. Probably somewhat overstated, but if you can get 80KWh into 450lbs, that would be 400 or 500 miles, instead of 300, due to the reduced mass.

It would be great if we could get retrofits, but business usually does not work like that.

 

[mr_roboto]

That was my first thought when I saw them. However since the Cybertruck came out, I thought that EV aerodynamics were extinct like the dinosaurs.

Edit: Okay corrected the Cybertruck does not horrible aerodynamics, it's just butt ugly.

The ID Buzz has a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.285, which is quite good actually.

The Cybertruck's chief fascism officer claims its Cd is 0.34, but he tells many lies, so who knows. There's a lot of reasons to expect that it's relatively bad. Big flat facets with sharp(ish) edges are generally bad for subsonic aero.

Cd is not the whole story, size matters too. The ID Buzz is 78.1" wide x 76.2" tall, or 5951 in^2 cross section. Cybertruck is 86.6"x70.5" = 6105 in^2.

Drag force is proportional to Cd * A where A is the "reference area" AKA the orthographic projection of the object in the plane perpendicular to its motion axis relative to the fluid. (Cd is also defined with reference to this axis.) A is what I calculated above, so I think it's safe to say the ID Buzz has significantly better aero than the Cyberturd.

Both should suffer in range relative to smaller EVs just because they're big and heavy.

 

[Nycturne]

Both should suffer in range relative to smaller EVs just because they're big and heavy.

Pretty much, and the Buzz has "only" 91 kWh (86 usable) in the long wheel base version the US gets, compared to 102kWh in something like the Lyriq and 123kWh in the Cybertruck or 131kWh in the F150 lightning extended range. Some of the smallest batteries in an ‘extended range’ variant when looking at larger EVs, plus the relatively inefficient power delivery.

The closest true comparison is the Kia EV9 though, which has a similar battery, but a couple hundred pounds less weight and noticeably more range.

 

[Cmaier]

Man, after all these years they just built a massive number of Tesla superchargers at the supermarket I always go to. Walking distance (0.9 miles) - I’ve walked it plenty of times. If I still had the model S my car would be charging there every day just to spite elon. Oh well.

There are also some EVgo stalls there, but the nearest Electrify America stalls are double that distance from my house.

 

[Yoused]

But you charge in the garage at home. You hardly ever use those public things. The ones you should want are the ones in Garberville or Angel Camp or some other BF nowhere place. I want one in Thermopolis Wyoming because I like that place and the nearest one seems to be in Cody or Riverton.

 

[Cmaier]

But you charge in the garage at home. You hardly ever use those public things. The ones you should want are the ones in Garberville or Angel Camp or some other BF nowhere place. I want one in Thermopolis Wyoming because I like that place and the nearest one seems to be in Cody or Riverton.

Yes, but when I had unlimited free supercharging, letting Elon pay for it would have been preferable. And BMWs come with (capped) two years of free charging at Electrify America - again, you may as well use it up and save the dough.

In fact, given electricity rates and my usage, supercharging would be pretty cost competitive with charging at home, and it has definitely come in handy a few times when our neighborhood was blacked out (e.g. one time we lost power for a week due to a week’s worth of atmospheric rivers that soaked the ground so much that redwoods kept keeling over and taking out the power grid).

 

[Eric]

Yes, but when I had unlimited free supercharging, letting Elon pay for it would have been preferable. And BMWs come with (capped) two years of free charging at Electrify America - again, you may as well use it up and save the dough.

In fact, given electricity rates and my usage, supercharging would be pretty cost competitive with charging at home, and it has definitely come in handy a few times when our neighborhood was blacked out (e.g. one time we lost power for a week due to a week’s worth of atmospheric rivers that soaked the ground so much that redwoods kept keeling over and taking out the power grid).

We've tried the free Electrify America and it's such a pain in the ass to setup and use that we've given up, not even the dealership could give us a straight answer on it.

 

[Cmaier]

We've tried the free Electrify America and it's such a pain in the ass to setup and use that we've given up, not even the dealership could give us a straight answer on it.

oh, weird! My wife uses it all the time on her i4. I haven’t tried it, but as far as I can tell my car is all set up properly for it. The “genius” set me up when I took delivery, and I see the “contract” listed in the appropriate place in the car menus.

 

[rdrr]

We've tried the free Electrify America and it's such a pain in the ass to setup and use that we've given up, not even the dealership could give us a straight answer on it.

My ID.4 was a breeze to set up. I just needed the code on the window sticker to register it, and if I remember correctly, the dealership gave a handout with a QR code that went to the setup page.

The onboard VW software, though... Whomever VW partnered with to develop and maintain it needs some significant help. Don't get me wrong, I love Betty, she just has a lot of "quirks".

 

[DT]

But you charge in the garage at home.

Home Charging is really the game changer, and unless you have a super convenient, consistently available, charger and no home charging, I wouldn't even recommend an EV.

My ID.4 was a breeze to set up.

Yep. Ours EA was free for 2 years (no charge limits other than 30 minutes at a time, then a 60 minute wait). Pretty much plug in, done.

 

[Herdfan]

Ford has partnered with several charge companies to be able to pay through the Ford App.

And Ford also has what they call Plug and Charge which automatically starts charging when you simply plug in the charge cable. Tesla is one and I want to say Electrify America is the other big one.

My daughter is doing fine with a 110v charger in her garage for most of what she needs. Plus she can juice up some at work.

 

[Cmaier]

Ford has partnered with several charge companies to be able to pay through the Ford App.

And Ford also has what they call Plug and Charge which automatically starts charging when you simply plug in the charge cable. Tesla is one and I want to say Electrify America is the other big one.

My daughter is doing fine with a 110v charger in her garage for most of what she needs. Plus she can juice up some at work.

BMW also supports plug and charge. You set up “contracts” ahead of time and when you plug in the car checks if you already have a contract with that supplier. If you do, it just charges without any intervention (and bills your on-file card, if applicable). The two that are supported right now appear to be Electrify America and Shell Recharge.

But “‘Shell recharge” covers chargepoint, evgo, blink, and about 10 other networks. I didn’t even realize that (I am already set up for this, but didn’t know it covered those others). Tomorrow when I am bored at work I will try this with the chargepoint AC chargers in our parking garage.

 

[cbum]

I seems weird that "Shell recharge" doesn't spread the word?

 

[DT]

I seems weird that "Shell recharge" doesn't spread the word?

They do. And they have a nice newsletter.