FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

mac_in_tosh said:
Eric Trump has made a very revealing statement about how the DOJ operated under his father:

"Make no mistake," Eric said, "I know the White House as well as anyone. I spent a lot of time there; I know the system. This did not happen without Joe Biden's explicit approval. The White House approved of this. Mark my words … it will come out."
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Be sure to mark them in Crayon for consistency.
 
GermanSuplex said:
They're already getting ahead of the revelations by suggesting the FBI planted evidence. What a joke.
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I was real happy when trump suggested that yesterday, because it means there must be good stuff that they found
 
These people are dangerous.

Far-Right Extremists Are Violently Threatening the Trump Search-Warrant Judge​

“Let's find out if he has children... where they go to school, where they live... EVERYTHING,” one person wrote on a message board where the judge’s address was posted.
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www.vice.com

Far-Right Extremists Are Violently Threatening the Trump Search-Warrant Judge

“Let's find out if he has children... where they go to school, where they live... EVERYTHING,” one person wrote on a message board where the judge’s address was posted.
www.vice.com www.vice.com
 
Bannon, Bernard Kerik and others are insinuating that Trump could be assassinated by "these people". Who "these people" are, who the hell knows. Well, we do know. They're ginning up the violence in their own base.

Totally sickening and I really hope there are for more level-headed Americans - even if they support Trump - than there are sycophants and psychopaths who buy into this bullshit.

It sickens me to watch people who laugh when a totally innocent person of color or petty unarmed criminal is gunned down by police, abused by law enforcement, failed by the justice system - but thinks their "Rambo"-hero Donald Trump is a persecuted victim. Every day since Trump announced his presidency has been a whirlwind of unbelievable revelations. When will enough be enough? Nothing gets through. If they lose an election, they say it was stolen. If he's accused of wrongdoing, its the entire political apparatus that's at fault, not Trump. And when he's caught red-handed in wrongdoing, well... they just deflect to someone or something else - the old "two wrongs make a right" excuse (and that's granting them that what they deem as being wrong was even wrong to begin with).

And EVERYTHING feeds into their narrative. Everything is "proof" to them. If you're banned from Twitter, its proof of "big tech" persecution. If the FBI searches your home, you're a victim of the "deep state". If you lose the vote, you're a victim of "voter fraud". The only thing they will accept is victory and a win. Any failure - at all, ever, of any sort - is someone else's fault.

This is the same party that preaches personal accountability and so-called respect for "law and order".

There aren't really any Trumpers here, but I would just ask them that if you're precious dipshit Messiah is subject to prosecutorial misconduct and a faulty justice system, why the hell wouldn't you believe poor people and minorities aren't treated the same or worse?

**Edit…

This is worth a read. I wonder who this informant is? And there are tons of buffers here.. the DoJ, Trump-appointed FBI director, a federal judge, a grand jury, the National Archives… we don’t know the political ideology of many of these people… could be many Trump supporters in the mix who simply want to follow rules and laws. This is no witch hunt.

www.newsweek.com

Exclusive: An informer told the FBI what documents Trump was hiding, and where

The FBI's raid on Mar-a-Lago was carried out while Donald Trump was absent in the hope it would be low-profile. The plan was a "spectacular" failure.
www.newsweek.com
 
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GermanSuplex said:
And EVERYTHING feeds into their narrative. Everything is "proof" to them. If you're banned from Twitter, its proof of "big tech" persecution. If the FBI searches your home, you're a victim of the "deep state". If you lose the vote, you're a victim of "voter fraud". The only thing they will accept is victory and a win. Any failure - at all, ever, of any sort - is someone else's fault.

This is the same party that preaches personal accountability and so-called respect for "law and order".
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The Trump fanatics are just flailing though. It's like they've got bit parts in a reality TV show where there's no real arc to the plot, it's a static level of bullsh^t with occasional over the top moments and all meant to pass the time from now to dinner or another exciting go-nowhere the next day.

I mean what do they want? Seems like all they want is another thing to enrage them, an excuse to act out, vent new threats and wreak havoc in other people's lives. They await a next instruction to go nuts again.

Also seems like Trump and the Republican Party "leadership" step up to provide that at will.

The way in which they project their own faults onto their political opponents and claim that their own rights are being assaulted would be hilarious if it didn't make for such a tinderbox on social media (and from there out into the dark net and from there to god knows where).

Meanwhile what about the rights and personal freedom of the Americans they are threatening?

Bunch of spoiled brats and vicious malingerers operating in a world where facts and the rights of others don't matter, only the ability to bully and threaten when not getting their own way... or the way pointed out to them as "what's next?" by authoritarian influencers and admirers (or users) of Donald Trump.

We need a lot more mental health care made available in the USA. Start in K-4 because what's wrong has most recently got a leg up right from all those cradles parked in front of Fox News on a TV set.
 
7utr71tsgsg91.jpg
 
lizkat said:
This is still the USA though and not some reality TV show. Trump's supporters don't just get the last word because they're loud. We are still a country with a rule of law and people courageous enough to bring suit to get it enforced.
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If only Trump played by the rules of his own reality TV show. When “you’re fired’, you’re fired. The only difference is rather than walking out onto 5th Ave with his suitcase and getting into a taxi, he gets a flight on Marine One from the White House lawn <insert The Apprentice theme music + roll the credits>
 
Here’s something to think about…

Trump-world is big. It’s not just Trump and his kids and a few dirt bags like Roger Stone, Rudy Colludy, etc.

It’s Fox News personalities who had direct contact with Trump’s Chief of Staff and others - even Trump himself. It’s tons of congress sleaze like Gym Jordan, Matt Gaetz, Ron Johnson, MTG, Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Scott Perry.. I’m probably forgetting a few dozen.

It’s a big gang. They aren’t sitting around talking policy, or how to stop a democrat bill or - GASP - how to pass a bill of their own to benefit their constituents or America. It’s trying to pressure officials, come up with “alternate” slates of electors (there’s no such thing, which is why they made the whole thing up), trying to find MAGA-fan paper shufflers in the DoJ (no offense to the rank and file of the DoJ) who will do Trump’s bidding, and elevating them to high positions they aren’t qualified for (Jeff Clark).

There were so many people involved in the plot to overthrow the election, to help Trump at all costs, and who abdicated their oaths in service to one guy. And the people on Fox News have their eyes and ears on that pulse. It’s a big club. And so when they see Trump has documents taken, when they see three people close to Trump getting their phones seized… it starts to make sense as to why they are freaking out so much.

There’s probably a lot of people who will be implicated. Texts, encrypted messaging apps, emails… I expect a lot to be found out.
 
GermanSuplex said:
There’s probably a lot of people who will be implicated. Texts, encrypted messaging apps, emails… I expect a lot to be found out.
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... and let's not forget the state legislators who have now passed bills to make it easier to refuse to certify the results of an election if they don't like the outcome. Ugh. November could get ugly, or it's possible the voters will make it clear enough they're not having it. Get real and toss all the clowns out of Congress.
 
Renzatic said:
I imagine that Garland, Wray, the DOJ, and the FBI are well aware of the stakes and consequences of their actions here. Given what they're going up against, expect every risk they take to be calculated to the nth degree.
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I would hope so and assume that to be the case- turning on a former and potential future President obvious carries massive implications. If you are flip on Fox News they are going nuts with the Trump persecution narrative and is emboldening Trump and his supporters.

Given the let’s say less than stellar relationship between Trump and the Feds- dossier, Russiagate, falsifying FISA warrants, Hunter Biden laptop (laptop specifically I think is largely blown out of proportion at this point in relation to Joe), etc I can understand where the outrage is coming from. But that’s also a reason that the Feds would cross all their T’s and dot all their I’s. But the fact of the matter is there’s a lot of riled up Trump Supporters based on essentially ZERO information.

If no one’s noticed, there are essentially no known details at this point beyond Trump’s home being raided. And AFAIK we only know about that from Trump officials. They are controlling the narrative. And while the Feds aren’t saying anything, the Trump campaign/lawyers have said nothing of substance either. I would assume they have some idea of what’s really going on.

Assuming this raid was entirely kosher, which I would expect to be the case, I do think it would behoove Garland or Wray to make some statement to explain to some degree what is happening in order to quell the excitement and speculation on both sides of the isle.
 
AG_PhamD said:
I would hope so and assume that to be the case- turning on a former and potential future President obvious carries massive implications.
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I'm almost certain this was scrutinized from every angle. This was such a high risk move I don't think they would have done it unless they had very, very, very solid and credible information. The fallout that would occur if nothing came out of this would be so massive and a huge blow to trying to prosecute Trump on either classified documents or January 6th.
 
Runs For Fun said:
I'm almost certain this was scrutinized from every angle. This was such a high risk move I don't think they would have done it unless they had very, very, very solid and credible information. The fallout that would occur if nothing came out of this would be so massive and a huge blow to trying to prosecute Trump on either classified documents or January 6th.
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I keep seeing references in mainstream media to the idea that the search at Mar a Lago was focused on recovering some information that specifcally related to the 1/6 insurrection,

If that is true, as opposed to the earlier notion that it was more broadly just that "classified" information had been retained by Trump and was the object of the search, no wonder the Republicans in the House have gone bonkers over the search. The Rs who tried to help overturn the election don't know what that info is and whether they are implicated or what will happen once the information is reviewed as the DoJ investigation continues.

But if that's what it was about, then it starts to make sense that the Republicans in the House Oversight and Reform committee are now weighing in asking for preservation of documents in the process of the search warrant acquisition, and a detailed list of what was taken from Mar a Lago. Suddenly those guys are much more interested in finding out what exactly what was retrieved, than in just hammering on the FBI for doing the search.

finance.yahoo.com

GOP House Oversight members press National Archives over role in FBI’s Mar-a-Lago search

Republicans on the House Oversight and Reform Committee sent a letter on Wednesday to the head of the National Archives and Records Administration asking about its role in the FBI’s search of former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate. The lawmakers — led by Rep. James Comer (R-Ky.), the ranking...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
 
lizkat said:
I keep seeing references in mainstream media to the idea that the search at Mar a Lago was focused on recovering some information that specifcally related to the 1/6 insurrection,

If that is true, as opposed to the earlier notion that it was more broadly just that "classified" information had been retained by Trump and was the object of the search, no wonder the Republicans in the House have gone bonkers over the search. The Rs who tried to help overturn the election don't know what that info is and whether they are implicated or what will happen once the information is reviewed as the DoJ investigation continues.

But if that's what it was about, then it starts to make sense that the Republicans in the House Oversight and Reform committee are now weighing in asking for preservation of documents in the process of the search warrant acquisition, and a detailed list of what was taken from Mar a Lago. Suddenly those guys are much more interested in finding out what exactly what was retrieved, than in just hammering on the FBI for doing the search.

finance.yahoo.com

GOP House Oversight members press National Archives over role in FBI’s Mar-a-Lago search

Republicans on the House Oversight and Reform Committee sent a letter on Wednesday to the head of the National Archives and Records Administration asking about its role in the FBI’s search of former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate. The lawmakers — led by Rep. James Comer (R-Ky.), the ranking...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
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Friend of mine who used to be a federal asst district atty suggested maybe trump kept “insurance” on his co-conspirators to prevent them from shafting him. 🤷
 
GermanSuplex said:
Why are people asking the FBI/DoJ to change how they operate just because this guy was the president? He's not the president anymore. If he was anyone else, would the FBI be acting differently? They issue a subpoena - where you willfully turn something over to authorities - or they get a warrant. How many people get courtesy calls from the police or law enforcement telling them they'll be at your house in fifteen minutes to execute a search warrant? "Hey, just a quick heads up, we're on our way over. We've got a warrant for cocaine and stolen guns, so just hang tight and we'll be there in fifteen minutes."

This fat tub of lard is being the treated the exact same way he's demanded others who have done far less than him - in some cases nothing at all - be treated.

These people are pissed off whether Trump's home is searched or they lose an election. They're never happy unless Trump is on Twitter claiming victory for everything. Better to hold him accountable for whatever he's done than nothing.

And we don't even know if this will lead to charges. Could have been a drastic effort to get back documents of great importance and if they get them, that could be it. Who knows. Knowing Trump and his belief he is truly above the law and nothing applies to him, I'm sure he's committed numerous crimes. But this search is not really indicative of an indictment being next. But I'm pretty sure more is coming, because its hard to envision Trump holding these documents for fifteen months just for the hell of it.

And as mentioned, he could easily show what they took from him. He could clear all this up... "They came for a paper-weight model Air Force One and my big, beautiful letter from King Jong Un, and they stole my favorite putter and a letter Ivanka wrote me when she was 5! Here's the proof!"

He won't show any proof, because it will show what they were after and what they took. No, selling this to his base as "the deep state and radical dems are on a witch hunt the likes of which this country has never seen before. Send me some cash so I can defeat them!"
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My question is if they did offer a subpoena and it was ignored. Wouldn’t be the first time for the Trump administration.

Given the high profile of the case, the only thing I think they need to do differently here at this point is issue some bit of clarification onto what is going on. Otherwise we have Trump and the right wing media who doesn’t know anymore than anyone else dictating the narrative. That worked out well with the Stop the Steal narrative :rolleyes: (despite best efforts to the contrary).

.
 
AG_PhamD said:
My question is if they did offer a subpoena and it was ignored. Wouldn’t be the first time for the Trump administration.

Given the high profile of the case, the only thing I think they need to do differently here at this point is issue some bit of clarification onto what is going on. Otherwise we have Trump and the right wing media who doesn’t know anymore than anyone else dictating the narrative. That worked out well with the Stop the Steal narrative :rolleyes: (despite best efforts to the contrary).

.
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Isaac Chotiner has a piece up in the New Yorker including an interview with Andrew Weissmann, a former federal prosecutor and F.B.I. general counsel who worked on the Mueller investigation. The interview addresses some of the finer points of subpoenas vs search warrants and what a prosecutor and a judge get to decide about either or both of them when a search warrant is applied for and considered.

www.newyorker.com

What the F.B.I.’s Raid of Mar-a-Lago Could Mean for Trump

A former federal prosecutor and general counsel for the F.B.I. explains the process and implications of obtaining a search warrant on the home of a former President.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com

What’s your biggest takeaway from Monday’s events?

The usual way to get documents from somebody you trust is to give them a subpoena. Almost any time that the government is trying to get documents from a corporation, they do it by issuing a subpoena, or even by informal request. With any normal civilian, you will issue a subpoena and the person will collect the documents and produce them.

You use a search warrant, and not a subpoena, when you don’t believe that the person is actually going to comply. For me, the biggest takeaway is that the Attorney General of the United States had to make the determination that it was appropriate in this situation to proceed by search warrant because they could not be confident that the former President of the United States would comply with a grand-jury subpoena.
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When you say he wouldn’t comply, do you mean that he wouldn’t recognize the relevant legal authority? He would destroy documents? Both?

It could be both. But one way would simply be to lie and say that you produced everything. Another would be to assert the Fifth Amendment’s “act of production” privilege. That might be the most benign. It’s a part of the Fifth Amendment that says you don’t have to produce documents in your possession if the act of producing them would be incriminating. So, for instance, there is a lot of speculation that this is about whether the former President has classified documents in his possession that he should not have. If he produced those pursuant to a subpoena, that would be incriminating himself, because it would show that he had them and knew where they were. The search warrant avoids all that. The F.B.I. just takes the documents, not asking the recipient to do anything.
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And what about in terms of recency? If Trump took documents from the White House to Florida twenty months ago, would a judge want some reason to think that the documents are still there?

Yes. One of the requirements for the search warrant is evidence that the information will be there during the two-week period that the F.B.I. is authorized to do a search—the information is not “stale.” And that’s the term of art that people talk about. Is the information being presented by the F.B.I. to the court stale? What you are looking for is some evidence of recency. Why would [the material] still be in that location? Even if something happened eighteen months ago, that’s fine. But a judge might say, “What makes you think it is still in that location?” This is speculation, but you would think that there has to be at least one source who gave the F.B.I. information about what was there fairly recently, and that whatever they were looking for was in that location.
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On balance when I think about all this, and assuming that Trump's lawyers are capable and competent defenders of his rights in general, it seems plausible to me that his attorneys and the DoJ may have essentially (even if implicitly) agreed that a search warrant was going to be the only way to acquire the material, i.e. to avoid the former president having to incriminate himself by producing the material as response to a subpoena.

As to the "recency" issues, that's something else. Seems to me that must have come from some other person who did in fact recently respond to a subpoena (or step forward voluntarily) and whose deposition or testimony would give a judge ample reason to be satisfied that Trump still had documents the DoJ wanted to retrieve.
 
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