Hamas has launched a major attack on Israel

[Eric]

Does anyone, except maybe Nazis R Us and similar groups?

Yet so many still do. Most large corporations and celebrities refuse to leave also, it seems like there's nothing Musk can do to alienate them, on the other hand they also have nowhere else to go to get the same notoriety. I had high hopes for Threads but Zuckerberg is still half-assing the app and it's not up to par with what Twitter was/is.

 

[Citysnaps]

I'm watching Gaza video coverage on the PBS News Hour right now. Unbelievable and horrific destruction. A huge hat-tip to journalists and camera operators sticking their necks out to bring back what's happening over there; especially in and around hospitals.

 

[Eric]

I'm watching Gaza video coverage on the PBS News Hour right now. Unbelievable and horrific destruction. A huge hat-tip to journalists and camera operators sticking their necks out to bring back what's happening over there; especially in and around hospitals.

Yeah, it's a shame that Hamas is using both the people and hospitals all as shields, true pieces of human garbage.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

The ONLY alternative is doing nothing? From what I'm seeing/listening to/reading, it's not that black and white, with zero options available. There are shades of gray with respect to any response.

I've asked this many times here - what are some of those other options?

 

[Cmaier]

I've asked this many times here - what are some of those other options?

Jewish Space Lasers.

Duh.

 

[Yoused]

Jewish Space Lasers.

Duh.

Yeah, why have they not been using that?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Yet so many still do. Most large corporations and celebrities refuse to leave also, it seems like there's nothing Musk can do to alienate them, on the other hand they also have nowhere else to go to get the same notoriety. I had high hopes for Threads but Zuckerberg is still half-assing the app and it's not up to par with what Twitter was/is.

I haven't been on Twitter in many, many years and there's a good chance when I was it was for 30 minutes total. But from what I understand from what people liked about it and how they used it I find it completely mindboggling that it is that hard to replicate. Seems like you could map out the entire successful user experience on a cocktail napkin.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

In case anyone has missed it, here is John Oliver's take on this topic. Definitely worth a watch:

Okay, here's a rebuttal:
Why Trevor Noah and John Oliver are wrong about Israel

I'm not sure which Noah statements are referenced in this video, but, while I generally like him, in the past he has exhibited the naive armchair quarterbacking that abounds in discussions about Israel. So once he was lamenting that Israel has superior armaments than Hamas and it was somehow unfair to use them. Huh? If someone came into his house and killed some of his family members and he had a gun, upon seeing that the intruders only had knives he would put his gun down and go into the kitchen to get a knife just to make things more fair?

Edit: Just realized that the video I referenced is an older one and not a direct response to Oliver's recent video but it's still applicable.

 

[Citysnaps]

I've asked this many times here - what are some of those other options?

I’m just noodling here…. I suspect that’s a question best directed to professional military strategists who *ideally* are dispassionate and not personally motivated or biased (a tough and likely impossible ask) when considering trades preserving innocent human life (Geneva Conventions, Laws of War, etc) is at odds with the desire to promote and engage in the most efficient/quickest solution preserving Israel’s security (which can only happen when hamas is totally wiped out).

There are always trades to be considered. Questions arise when outcomes bump into ethics.

 

[Alli]

ICYMI Several videos like this have been released by most of the mainstream media. Of particular importance is it is followed not by a ceasefire, but a delay because Hamas wouldn’t sign the agreement.

 

[GermanSuplex]

The frustrating thing for Israel is that even though the arguments showing support for both sides (innocent Israelis and Palestinians) are legit, they’re also the arguments Hamas surely wants. All of the arguments people are making against Israel are exactly why Hamas embeds themselves among the Palestinians the way they have, so they can kill indiscriminately and take hostages, and then make Israel look like the bad guys no matter what they do.

I’m curious to see what the next steps are when/if all the hostages are freed, because left to stand, all this will teach Hamas is to start building up for the next big mass slaughter to free a few more prisoners and kill some more enemies in the process.

That’s compounded by the fact this war, in which Israel will seek to cripple or destroy Hamas, is surely going to breed generations more of radicals on each side, making long-term peace harder to obtain.

 

[Alli]

WATCH LIVE: Hamas delays release of hostages, claims Israeli 'violation'

Officials in Jerusalem pushing to up the number of hostages released on Saturday by one • Israel to release 42 Palestinian prisoners

www.jpost.com

 

[Alli]

That’s compounded by the fact this war, in which Israel will seek to cripple or destroy Hamas, is surely going to breed generations more of radicals on each side, making long-term peace harder to obtain.

As my mother pointed out, there will always be another generation.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

That’s compounded by the fact this war, in which Israel will seek to cripple or destroy Hamas, is surely going to breed generations more of radicals on each side, making long-term peace harder to obtain.

Which, if it wasn't an explicit goal of Hamas would surely be welcomed by them. Palestinian radicalization will continue as long as fanatical entities like Hamas are in charge since their goal is not peace with Israel. Gaza's condition is due to a large extent to the embrace of terror, not the other way around. Gaza gets billions of dollars annually from the U.S., the E.U. and other nations that Hamas diverts toward building tunnels, acquiring weapons and rocket launchers instead of investing in education and infrastructure that would benefit the population.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Which, if it wasn't an explicit goal of Hamas would surely be welcomed by them. Palestinian radicalization will continue as long as fanatical entities like Hamas are in charge since their goal is not peace with Israel. Gaza's condition is due to a large extent to the embrace of terror, not the other way around. Gaza gets billions of dollars annually from the U.S., the E.U. and other nations that Hamas diverts toward building tunnels, acquiring weapons and rocket launchers instead of investing in education and infrastructure that would benefit the population.

The practice of giving money instead of supplies needs to stop immediately, and delivery of those supplies needs to be contingent on a monitoring team that assures the supplies get to their intended destination and purpose.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

The practice of giving money instead of supplies needs to stop immediately, and delivery of those supplies needs to be contingent on a monitoring team that assures the supplies get to their intended destination and purpose.

That would help but it's far from perfect as long as Hamas is in power. Even now Hamas must spend some amount on bare necessities for Gazans. Any supplies delivered would free up that amount for them to use for more rockets, etc.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

That would help but it's far from perfect as long as Hamas is in power. Even now Hamas must spend some amount on bare necessities for Gazans. Any supplies delivered would free up that amount for them to use for more rockets, etc.

With globalization there’s no reason to be handing out cash. Give us your shopping list and we’ll get it for you. And if you’ve proven to be a bad actor then we’re doing door to door delivery to the needy too.

 

[Citysnaps]

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

Interesting.

Also... Hamas planning/practicing over many months prior to October 7th was reported many times by a special unit of female IDF soldiers monitoring the border. And was apparently ignored.

If the above is true, one has to wonder why and for what purpose. Especially as the IDF is regarded as one of the best military services around and is supported by a very sophisticated intelligence service.

 

[Roller]

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.

www.nytimes.com

Interesting.

Also... Hamas planning/practicing over many months prior to October 7th was reported many times by a special unit of female IDF soldiers monitoring the border. And was apparently ignored.

If the above is true, one has to wonder why and for what purpose. Especially as the IDF is regarded as one of the best military services around and is supported by a very sophisticated intelligence service.

I’ve heard the same story from other well-placed people, and I believe it to be true. Disbelieving the plan (so-called Jericho Wall) wasn’t so much a failure of intelligence - the Israelis acquired the document - as it was crippling arrogance. They thought Hamas couldn’t pull it off.

In the more recent episode, mid/low level officers refused to escalate reports by female border monitors who saw Hamas drilling during the summer. That, too, was arrogant. Moving IDF forces from the south to the area of the West Bank further compounded the problem.

 

[Citysnaps]

They thought Hamas couldn’t pull it off.

In the more recent episode, mid/low level officers refused to escalate reports by female border monitors who saw Hamas drilling during the summer. That, too, was arrogant.

I've read the above as well.

One failure (either one of the above: disbelieving Jericho Wall, or, failing to escalate Hamas training reports )? Well... yeah, maybe.

Two important independent and simultaneous failures with respect to the same threat, during the same period of time? Whoa...that's a lot to swallow. I don't want to speculate possibilities, but the above sure doesn't feel right. The IDF/Shin Bet/Mossad aren't 3rd rate organizations.