Hamas has launched a major attack on Israel

[GermanSuplex]

The answers on the stand by the college presidents were stunning. In a twist of irony, the people answering the questions sounded a lot like Elise Stefanik and her people answering questions about January 6, or if Joe Biden won the election. You got everything except the only correct and obvious answer.

I'm not going to say I think they deserved to be called on to resign, but I also can't really defend them either. They shit the proverbial bed at a really bad time in a really public way.

The other bit of irony is that there is a lot of anti-semitism in the republican ranks (it exists on the left as well, though I'd argue to a vastly smaller degree, but its noticeable and there). What happens when there's a pro-Trump white nationalist party with anti-semetic chants? I doubt they'll marching through the streets with torches chanting "We stand with Jews". Will Elise Stefanik be able to call that crap out, or will "BLM" be the first thing she says? Nothing about Trump having a private dinner with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West in the middle of Kanye's "I hate Jews" tour? In his own home?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The answers on the stand by the college presidents were stunning. In a twist of irony, the people answering the questions sounded a lot like Elise Stefanik and her people answering questions about January 6, or if Joe Biden won the election. You got everything except the only correct and obvious answer.

I'm not going to say I think they deserved to be called on to resign, but I also can't really defend them either. They shit the proverbial bed at a really bad time in a really public way.

The other bit of irony is that there is a lot of anti-semitism in the republican ranks (it exists on the left as well, though I'd argue to a vastly smaller degree, but its noticeable and there). What happens when there's a pro-Trump white nationalist party with anti-semetic chants? I doubt they'll marching through the streets with torches chanting "We stand with Jews". Will Elise Stefanik be able to call that crap out, or will "BLM" be the first thing she says? Nothing about Trump having a private dinner with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West in the middle of Kanye's "I hate Jews" tour? In his own home?

This is one of the few times I wouldn‘t mind some whataboutism. This time it’s very direct. Just last week Texas Republicans voted against a ban on hanging out with Nazis. It doesn’t get more Jew hating than Nazis. It’s I minimum requirement.

But per usual, whatever Republicans are screaming about the loudest they are guilty of themselves and often to a greater degree.

 

[GermanSuplex]

In this congress, I can almost believe these school administrators believed the question was too direct, surely it must be a trap. Could you blame them if they thought that? Have you watched any of these conservative hearings? Taken as a slice by itself, that hearing was really bad and the answers were just unacceptable - and Stefanik actually did a good job for a brief moment. But we don't live in a bubble. We know what these Trump-supporting conservatives do and how they distort reality. It's amazing how easy the correct answer finds them when they're on the offense. You show me a picture of January 6 events and tell me that's normal political discourse or "passionate patriots getting a little out of hand" after you spent the previous year calling BLM - one of the most peaceful mass protests in American history - a terrorist group? Get the hell out of here with that nonsense.

Also, haven't these blowhards been pushing for what they call "free speech" on college campuses for years? That type of conservative activism has always really meant "The right to publicly hate and bully". So now that's what we are seeing, and they're trying to pretend they're the good guys. If I was being questioned by Stefanik, I would say "We've been saying anti-semetism is bad for years and tried to do something about it, but conservatives have threatened to strip funding if we don't allow hate on campus."

I'd also break decorum as much as possible and ask why I had to be there if Gym Jordache didn't.

 

[rdrr]

I guess this belongs here. But the President of UPenn has resigned, as has the Chair of the BOT.

Penn’s Leadership Resigns Amid Controversies Over Antisemitism (Published 2023)

The president, Elizabeth Magill, and the chairman of the board of trustees, Scott L. Bok, are leaving after intense pressure from donors, politicians and alumni.

www.nytimes.com

All because she refused to say if students calling for the genocide of Jews should be punished. WTF? If they were calling for Muslims, Blacks, Gays or any other protected class to be killed, they would be off campus before they put their megaphones down.

They are still coming for the Presidents of Harvard & MIT who also testified at the same hearing and refused to give answers.

I realize it has been a long time since I was in college, but I don't remember there being an issue over anyone's religion.

It was a total case of not reading the room.

And yet, no equal condemnation of Elon Musk for his support of anti-semitic posts.

 

[Herdfan]

I wonder if anyone's opinion on this whole situation would change if HAMAS was successful:

Hamas 'plot to carry out attack on civilians in Europe is foiled'

A total of seven suspect were arrested across Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands, though Danish officials refused to comment on whether there was a link between the arrests

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[rdrr]

I wonder if anyone's opinion on this whole situation would change if HAMAS was successful:

Hamas 'plot to carry out attack on civilians in Europe is foiled'

A total of seven suspect were arrested across Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands, though Danish officials refused to comment on whether there was a link between the arrests

www.dailymail.co.uk

What opinion are you asking about, there have been many viewpoints/opinions/lenses on this "whole situation"? I would respond but I don't want to assume what you are asking.

 

[Herdfan]

What opinion are you asking about, there have been many viewpoints/opinions/lenses on this "whole situation"? I would respond but I don't want to assume what you are asking.

Those who blame Israel for everything. Perspective changes when things hit closer to home. Too many people are not seeing HAMAS as the bad guy.

 

[Citysnaps]

Those who blame Israel for everything. Perspective changes when things hit closer to home. Too many people are not seeing HAMAS as the bad guy.

Who are they? The Iranian government?

 

[rdrr]

Those who blame Israel for everything. Perspective changes when things hit closer to home. Too many people are not seeing HAMAS as the bad guy.

Gotcha. Well I haven't read all 27 pages of this thread, and I also haven't read every little thought on twitter or <insert news article here>, but what I have said and heard hasn't been "blame Israel for everything", and HAMAS isn't a bad guy.

HAMAS Oct 7th attack was unrcontionable and anyone that participated or supported it should be brought up on war crimes and basic human rights violations. End of story, no debate.

Not going to touch the whole Palestinian vs Israel existence in the area, that argument goes way way back before even you and I. They both have a right to exist, but like I said there is history and context that I don't think can be argued one way or another. It probably would be one of those 2 things can be true at the same time paradoxes.

Did the Israel leadership know about the attack before it occurred? I am going to let the dust settle on that, but it wouldn't be Israel's (as a nation) fault. If true Netanyahu and his cronies should take full blame.

Israel Leadership, the Defense Force, and seemingly the supporters here in the US, feel its ok to kill nearly 12000 innocent Palestinian women and children, and then hide it behind a shoulder shrug of "well what are we suppose to do?" Then call any criticism from nearly every country not named the US and Israel and to stop the killing of innocent civilians, as Antisemitism? Yes, I do blame them for that. AND the IDF as a modern military shouldn't be using unguided bombs against combatants that are hiding among a heavily civilian population.

If a HAMAS attack happened here, I would be just as vocal about that last point if we started bombing an innocent civilian population. AND I would expect our political leadership and military to be held accountable if we did.

 

[Herdfan]

Who are they? The Iranian government?

Pretty much half of the people on college campuses and those walking around tearing Missing hostage posters off of sign posts.

 

[Citysnaps]

Pretty much half of the people on college campuses and those walking around tearing Missing hostage posters off of sign posts.

Half the students on college campuses are pro-hamas, and by extension, antisemites?

Really?

 

[rdrr]

Pretty much half of the people on college campuses and those walking around tearing Missing hostage posters off of sign posts.

That is an exaggeration and a Faux News dog whistle. I work on a college campus and I can tell you that people are not pulling down Missing hostage posters here.

Edit: Even if you take the high number of protesters at Harvard Univeristy (which I do not work at) to 1999, that doesn't equal "half of the people" on that college campus. Student population 25,000+, Faculty and Staff 19,000+, which would bring the protestors to 5% - 10% however you want to massage the numbers. Then if you were to to take the percentage of those people who may have pulled down Missing posters or participated in antisemitic actions. I would gather that the number would be significantly smaller than that.

More Than 1,000 Rally on Harvard’s Campus to ‘Free Palestine’ Ahead of Expected Ground Invasion of Gaza | News | The Harvard Crimson

More than 1,000 demonstrators rallied in Harvard Yard in support of Gaza Saturday ahead of an expected ground invasion by Israel, condemning the University for a lack of support of Palestinian students and complicity in what they described as “genocide.”

www.thecrimson.com

 

[Yoused]

Who are they? The Iranian government?

Pretty much half of the people on college campuses and those walking around tearing Missing hostage posters off of sign posts.

Half the students on college campuses are pro-hamas, and by extension, antisemites?

Really?

Hamas is the Sunni group. Iran is run by Shi'ites. There is a very prickly relationship between those two factions of Islam. The Shi'ite group is Hezbollah.

Also, I think it is very important to make the distinction between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. Anti-semitism is animosity toward Jews in general, whereas anti-zionism is either opposition to Zionist rule in the levantine state which is Israel, or firm disagreement with the manner in which Israel is running that state. BDS is anti-zionist, in the policy category, but calling it anti-semitic is questionable, as, IIUC, some of its membership are actually Jewish.

 

[Citysnaps]

Hamas is the Sunni group. Iran is run by Shi'ites. There is a very prickly relationship between those two factions of Islam. The Shi'ite group is Hezbollah.

Also, I think it is very important to make the distinction between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. Anti-semitism is animosity toward Jews in general, whereas anti-zionism is either opposition to Zionist rule in the levantine state which is Israel, or firm disagreement with the manner in which Israel is running that state. BDS is anti-zionist, in the policy category, but calling it anti-semitic is questionable, as, IIUC, some of its membership are actually Jewish.

Thanks for the heads-up on hamas. I knew Iran was predominately Shia (I spent time in Iran years ago for work), I was misinformed about hamas.

 

[Herdfan]

That is an exaggeration and a Faux News dog whistle. I work on a college campus and I can tell you that people are not pulling down Missing hostage posters here.

Faux News? I don't think so.

How Posters of Kidnapped Israelis Ignited a Firestorm on American Sidewalks (Published 2023)

In the weeks since Hamas attacked Israel, fliers depicting the hostages have become ubiquitous. But in cities and on college campuses across the globe, anti-Israel protesters have removed them.

www.nytimes.com

As people across the U.S. hang posters of Hamas hostages, others tear them down

Confrontations captured on social media have gone viral, heightening tensions over the Israel-Hamas war.

www.nbcnews.com

As people across the US hang posters of Hamas hostages, others tear them down

Confrontations captured on social media have gone viral, heightening tensions over the Israel-Hamas war.

www.nbcdfw.com

GW student removed from campus for ripping down posters of Israelis held hostage by Hamas

George Washington University removed a student from campus for allegedly tearing down posters of Israeli hostages being held by Hamas, the school confirmed Thursday. Student Noah Shapiro was shocked when he realized what happened. “My heart skipped a beat,” he said. He went to the Hillel...

www.nbcwashington.com

A Wave Of People Are Tearing Down Posters Of Missing Israelis

The missing persons flyers depict Israelis taken hostage by Hamas.

www.huffpost.com

 

[cbum]

Also, I think it is very important to make the distinction between anti-semitism and anti-zionism. Anti-semitism is animosity toward Jews in general, whereas anti-zionism is either opposition to Zionist rule in the levantine state which is Israel,

Agree, but just want to add that antisemitism is both anti-jewish as well as anti-palestinian, since both are semitic people, so the term makes little sense in the current context.

 

[rdrr]

Faux News? I don't think so.

How Posters of Kidnapped Israelis Ignited a Firestorm on American Sidewalks (Published 2023)

In the weeks since Hamas attacked Israel, fliers depicting the hostages have become ubiquitous. But in cities and on college campuses across the globe, anti-Israel protesters have removed them.

www.nytimes.com

As people across the U.S. hang posters of Hamas hostages, others tear them down

Confrontations captured on social media have gone viral, heightening tensions over the Israel-Hamas war.

www.nbcnews.com

As people across the US hang posters of Hamas hostages, others tear them down

Confrontations captured on social media have gone viral, heightening tensions over the Israel-Hamas war.

www.nbcdfw.com

GW student removed from campus for ripping down posters of Israelis held hostage by Hamas

George Washington University removed a student from campus for allegedly tearing down posters of Israeli hostages being held by Hamas, the school confirmed Thursday. Student Noah Shapiro was shocked when he realized what happened. “My heart skipped a beat,” he said. He went to the Hillel...

www.nbcwashington.com

A Wave Of People Are Tearing Down Posters Of Missing Israelis

The missing persons flyers depict Israelis taken hostage by Hamas.

www.huffpost.com

Wow do you just cherry pick words, and exclude those that don’t fit your BS rebuttal. No, you made the claim that “Half of the people on college campuses” are tearing down the Missing posters. Show your evidence of that. You have an article of one student on one campus citing this. Your statement without evidence is just regurgitated Faux News and OAN exaggerated bullcrap.

I was reacting to your made up fact, and I don’t deny that it is happing just not even in the same universe to the numbers you claim. Sure there is antisemitism's, but look at your right wing pals first, before you start casting stones at the left.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Wow do you just cherry pick words, and exclude those that don’t fit your BS rebuttal. No, you made the claim that “Half of the people on college campuses” are tearing down the Missing posters. Show your evidence of that. You have an article of one student on one campus citing this. Your statement without evidence is just regurgitated Faux News and OAN exaggerated bullcrap.

I was reacting to your made up fact, and I don’t deny that it is happing just not even in the same universe to the numbers you claim. Sure there is antisemitism's, but look at your right wing pals first, before you start casting stones at the left.

Basically this is the new defund the police hysteria that I expect the right to be talking about for years while ignoring the "Jews will not replace us!" marches that happen on their side regardless of what is going on in Israel.

 

[Yoused]

Agree, but just want to add that antisemitism is both anti-jewish as well as anti-palestinian, since both are semitic people, so the term makes little sense in the current context.

This is sort of a pedantic distinction that is semantically inaccurate: in the US, anti-semitic specificly applies to Jews in particular, not so much Arabic semites. But, in nearly all cases, a person who is expressly anti-semitic will also be an anti-moslem bigot.

 

[Roller]

I'm an ardent supporter of Israel and its right and duty to defend itself, but It's past time for Israel to cease its ongoing campaign: too many innocent Palestinians have died or been injured, and it's at the point where the IDF is killing hostages, even if only accidentally. When Hamas resumes its rocket fire, as it probably will, it should be countered with more limited military action from the IDF and strong denouncement by responsible world leaders.

The objective of obliterating Hamas is no longer feasible, if it ever was. Even if the IDF completely destroyed Gaza, Hamas would regroup with support from Qatar and probably Iran. That Israel facilitated the transfer of funds to Hamas in the hope the organization would continue "governing" Gaza but not be strong enough to mount a serious attack on Israel only adds to the Israeli government's complicity. Netanyahu needs to go as well.

As I've said before, the Arab states also must denounce Hamas forcefully and push for rebuilding Gaza as the first step in a two-state solution.