Hamas has launched a major attack on Israel

Jewish hatred is one of the most confusing forms of hatred, even more than race… that’s at least a primal stupidity that’s easy to explain. But Jews are everywhere and everyone.they’re a race and religion, and its clear most anti-Semitic people don’t even know why they hate Jews.

It’s definitely a problem on the left too. It’s a problem in general, a bi-partisan form of hatred. Jackson and Sharpton have definitely said some gross stuff in the past (which they have reformed, among other things - I don’t want to give credit for not being an idiot and wising up, but it’s better than staying stupid). Many celebrities who are seen as allies of the left have been caught saying stupid things.

I’d be lying if every mention by the right of George Soros didn’t sound like a conspiracy and anti-Semitic attack rolled into one.

I have much empathy for anyone who wants to live in peace, and the people planting their flags too firmly with either side right now are ignoring the horrible, centuries-long rift these related religions have had with each other, and how the politics and religion clashing in such a horrible way means there is no easy answer.

It’s also very hard to engage, negotiate with or trust people who think your killing is their righteous duty. Whether that order comes from god or some wealthy rebel leader sitting safely away from the danger in a Qatar penthouse is not for me to decide, but I imagine it makes deal making difficult either way.
 
GermanSuplex said:
I’d be lying if every mention by the right of George Soros didn’t sound like a conspiracy and anti-Semitic attack rolled into one.
Click to expand...

Honestly, until recently I had no idea he was Jewish. None.

So for me, it's not a conspiracy. I simply don't like what he stands for.

I also do not understand. Maybe for super religious folks don't like them because they don't view Jesus as the son of God, but merely a Prophet, but even that is weak.

With Muslims, I do. Our country was attacked based on their interpretation of Islam. So that is at least understandable.
 
GermanSuplex said:
Jewish hatred is one of the most confusing forms of hatred
Click to expand...

It is not all that difficult to suss. Read or watch Merchant of Venice (Willie the Shake did not give birth to the idea, it was already prevalent).

There was a perception that The Great War was fought on behalf of the finance industry. This meshed with the ancient trope of Jewish bankers. From there, it became a short hop to villification of Jews in general, and thence, villification of other.

The first step to overcoming your foe is to understand them. Look through their eyes, to see what they see, so that you can anticipate their moves. Dismissing your foe as stupid or evil is counter-productive, you should suss them out thoroughly. Also, never go into a fight angry.
 
Herdfan said:
With Muslims, I do. Our country was attacked based on their interpretation of Islam. So that is at least understandable.
Click to expand...
Anti-Islam started long before 9/11. It’s as easy for bigots to hate Muslims as to hate Blacks because they “look different.” I think they hate Jews more cause we’re sneaky and can pass for white.
 
GermanSuplex said:
Jewish hatred is one of the most confusing forms of hatred, even more than race… that’s at least a primal stupidity that’s easy to explain. But Jews are everywhere and everyone.they’re a race and religion, and its clear most anti-Semitic people don’t even know why they hate Jews.

It’s definitely a problem on the left too. It’s a problem in general, a bi-partisan form of hatred. Jackson and Sharpton have definitely said some gross stuff in the past (which they have reformed, among other things - I don’t want to give credit for not being an idiot and wising up, but it’s better than staying stupid). Many celebrities who are seen as allies of the left have been caught saying stupid things.

I’d be lying if every mention by the right of George Soros didn’t sound like a conspiracy and anti-Semitic attack rolled into one.

I have much empathy for anyone who wants to live in peace, and the people planting their flags too firmly with either side right now are ignoring the horrible, centuries-long rift these related religions have had with each other, and how the politics and religion clashing in such a horrible way means there is no easy answer.

It’s also very hard to engage, negotiate with or trust people who think your killing is their righteous duty. Whether that order comes from god or some wealthy rebel leader sitting safely away from the danger in a Qatar penthouse is not for me to decide, but I imagine it makes deal making difficult either way.
Click to expand...

From what I can tell most antisemities have never met a jew and wouldn’t know if they did. It’s the common issue where a lack of exposure to different groups allows stereotypes to take hold- rather than understanding what anyone who has stepped outside their group that people are people wherever you go.

Unfortunately there’s a lot of antisemitism in the black community- frankly a lot of tension between ultra-orthodox Jews and Blacks due to events like the crown heights riots etc. I don’t know much about Jackson, but I have zero respect for Sharpton. Aside from it taking decades to apologize for a long history promoting antisemitism and my curiosity if there was some motive to make the apology, this man has spent a career inciting racial tension. He’s way too cozy with Farrakhan who is perhaps one of the worst publicly vocal antisemites in the US. I think Sharpton is an awful representative for the Black community and a grifter. He’s falsely accused people of heinous crimes without evidence and never apologizes when proven wrong (ie Duke Lax scandal). If you ask me he has squandered and abused the amazing gift of having a platform to speak.

Interestingly Jews and Asians have a history of intercultural relationships- including high rates of intermarriage. Jews and Asians often occupied neighboring poorer areas of cities. Both shared being outsiders in an otherwise mostly Christian world but also similar values like a high focus on education, community responsibility, and raising children so they may advance their social status. The stereotype of Jews eating Chinese food on Christmas is rooted in actual tradition as nothing else was open on Christmas.

Soros is an interesting case study. The man does spend tremendous amounts of money and has a disproportional influence on local elections. This is especially true as he does often fund rather radical candidates even by the lefts standards. Billionaires are frequently targets of the left esp progressives but they never talk about Soros since he obviously generally benefits them. If Soros funded far right politics the left would surely be all over it. At the same time, Soros influence does unfortunately correlate well to the old antisemitic tropes of secretly pulling the strings of power (though it’s literally not secret at all)- which reinforces conspiracies.

It also has to be said though the left routinely calls any criticism of Soros antisemitism and uses this tactic as a shield. As a moderate/centrist/somewhat libertarian Jew I think there’s a serious problem with individuals (or companies) -left or right- having the ability to sway elections with their checkbooks. That’s not how democracy should work. To be clear Soros has far from a 100% success rate in who he funds. Pointing to specific examples of is generally is not antisemitic, but the more general statements become the more there is a grey area.
 
AG_PhamD said:
It also has to be said though the left routinely calls any criticism of Soros antisemitism and uses this tactic as a shield. As a moderate/centrist/somewhat libertarian Jew I think there’s a serious problem with individuals (or companies) -left or right- having the ability to sway elections with their checkbooks. That’s not how democracy should work. To be clear Soros has far from a 100% success rate in who he funds. Pointing to specific examples of is generally is not antisemitic, but the more general statements become the more there is a grey area.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen Soros name come up in the billionaires in politics discussions - I hear the claims of anti-semitism when Trump gets indicted and MTG and all her MAGA crew instantly start peppering social media with “Soros Prosecutor”, “Schumer and Soros at it again”, “Soros-sponsored terrorists”, on and on.
 
Let me see if I’m correctly following the logic here.

One side has a platform that includes wiping a region and people off the map but is nowhere near capable of pulling that off. That’s genocide.

The opposing side is literally wiping large sections of a region and people off the map but that isn’t part of their platform. That’s not genocide.

Am I up to speed?
 
AG_PhamD said:
From what I can tell most antisemities have never met a jew and wouldn’t know if they did.
Click to expand...

A good friend of mine is an attorney, and years ago was majorly responsible for drafting the hate crime legislation that most states have in place today, working with the ADL.

He told me about a lawyer colleague of his (it may have been a college professor) who was once in some kind of social setting, a party if I remember correctly. Someone, after engaging in some conversation and learning of his friend's name made the comment, "Some of my best friends are Jews."

Without missing a beat, his friend replied (paraphrased), "Oh really, that's great. And some of my best friends are antisemites!" Apparently that really flustered the other person, trying to figure out the intent of that witty comeback.
 
It's been terribly distressing to see what's been happening in Gaza over the past month or two. Israel, which had a right and duty to respond to the despicable attack by Hamas on October 7, is bogged down in a conflict that will never attain its strategic objective. What the Israelis have accomplished has been at tremendous cost, both to its international reputation and to the Palestinians in Gaza, not to mention its own economy. I don't subscribe to the claims that Israel is an apartheid state intent on genocide, but what's happened isn't morally supportable. It's no longer sufficient to say widespread death, injury, and destruction are unavoidable and justifiable because Hamas is inextricably intertwined in Gaza.

Netanyahu's recent declaration against a two-state solution, although a repetition of his longstanding position, was particularly troubling, as were calls for relocating Palestinians from members of his right-wing government. He needs to be relieved of power as quickly as possible and replaced by a government that will negotiate meaningfully for the return of the remaining hostages, along with agreements to allow massive aid to enter Gaza under the watch of a UN or other international force, followed by plans for post-war rebuilding and governance that doesn't involve Hamas.
 
What distresses me is that right now, most Israeli's don't see that the way to defeat Hamas, which I agree has to happen, is not militarily, which is impossible since Hamas is an Idea, not a killable entity, but by offering Palestinians something to work towards, i.e., statehood.
 

Well this was out of left field. I’ve often wondered what the mentality is of any Israeli who would move into the disputed territories. This seems to back up my speculation that the mentality is violent psychopath. It’s like somebody who lives in Kansas going “Those gangs in Chicago are animals! Pack up the kids. We’re moving to Chicago!”
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:

Well this was out of left field. I’ve often wondered what the mentality is of any Israeli who would move into the disputed territories. This seems to back up my speculation that the mentality is violent psychopath. It’s like somebody who lives in Kansas going “Those gangs in Chicago are animals! Pack up the kids. We’re moving to Chicago!”
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but I have known people who, even though they had plenty of means, refused to move out of the "holler" they grew up in. Because it's "their land".

I don't get it either.
 
Herdfan said:
I understand what you are saying, but I have known people who, even though they had plenty of means, refused to move out of the "holler" they grew up in. Because it's "their land".

I don't get it either.
Click to expand...

But also they keep building and new people move there. At minimum it’s not somewhere you move to if you want to live in peace and harmony.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
But also they keep building and new people move there. At minimum it’s not somewhere you move to if you want to live in peace and harmony.
Click to expand...
The people who settle there are fanatics who believe they have a God-given right to be there, their own safety be damned. And they’ve largely been supported by Netanyahu and his right wing associates. He’s very unpopular, but it’s in his best interest to remain in power, in part to escape or delay incarceration. Hmmm…. seems familiar.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:

Well this was out of left field. I’ve often wondered what the mentality is of any Israeli who would move into the disputed territories. This seems to back up my speculation that the mentality is violent psychopath. It’s like somebody who lives in Kansas going “Those gangs in Chicago are animals! Pack up the kids. We’re moving to Chicago!”
Click to expand...
Worse yet, many times the settlers are Americans.
 
GermanSuplex said:
I’ve seen Soros name come up in the billionaires in politics discussions - I hear the claims of anti-semitism when Trump gets indicted and MTG and all her MAGA crew instantly start peppering social media with “Soros Prosecutor”, “Schumer and Soros at it again”, “Soros-sponsored terrorists”, on and on.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree there is line. Too often any Soros criticism is automatically spun as antisemitism when it’s merely a criticism of an ultra wealthy person having an outsized influence on politics- especially in districts they do not live or work in and perhaps may have never even been to.

Of course, there are also those who criticize Soros in the context or alluding to Elders of Zion Jewish global domination conspiracies. Or even those who do not but have a history of promoting ridiculous conspiracies, bigotry, xenophobia, etc.

Therefore I think the best way to assess the Soros criticism is by the track record of the person speaking, not to make assumptions based on critical speech alone.

As a Jew I think it’s vitally important not to diminish the term “antisemitism” by erroneously throwing out accusations at every disagreement or for political purposes.

Trump is repeatedly labeled as an antisemite and I don’t really see much evidence. I hate to sound like I am “defending” him because I think he’s a reprehensible person. But he has Jews in his family including his precious daughter. His #2 at his company, Weiselberg, obviously is Jewish. He was extraordinarily favorable to Israel during his Presidency, perhaps one of if not the most. He’s said some bad jokes that have fallen flat. The Charlotesville “good people on both sides” clearly referred to pro-statue vs anti-statue people- he literally denounced neo-Nazis moments earlier. His problem so far as I can see, for someone who loves public speaking, is atrociously inarticulate.

To be clear, I do not think he is a good person, not being an antisemite doesn’t atone other wrongdoings and pathological defects, I do not think he should be ever serve in public office again whether that be president or dog catcher.
 
Citysnaps said:
A good friend of mine is an attorney, and years ago was majorly responsible for drafting the hate crime legislation that most states have in place today, working with the ADL.

He told me about a lawyer colleague of his (it may have been a college professor) who was once in some kind of social setting, a party if I remember correctly. Someone, after engaging in some conversation and learning of his friend's name made the comment, "Some of my best friends are Jews."

Without missing a beat, his friend replied (paraphrased), "Oh really, that's great. And some of my best friends are antisemites!" Apparently that really flustered the other person, trying to figure out the intent of that witty comeback.
Click to expand...

Ugh… the ADL. Take a look at basically any comments on a pro-Palestinian leaning video on YouTube or even many relating to the war relatively objectively. The amount of hateful comments against Jews and stereotyping and conspiracy mongering is ridiculous. The ADL was all over Musk and twitter over nebulous stats on hate speech… where are they now? The ADL does do some good work, they did some very good work in the past, unfortunately they’re perpetually losing direction and credibility due to politicization. Just like the SPLC and ACLU.
 
cbum said:
What distresses me is that right now, most Israeli's don't see that the way to defeat Hamas, which I agree has to happen, is not militarily, which is impossible since Hamas is an Idea, not a killable entity, but by offering Palestinians something to work towards, i.e., statehood.
Click to expand...

That was my concern from the start. Clearly some action must be taken, but there is no easy solution. Even if they are “destroyed”, inevitably a new, radical group will arise- as has been the case in the region’s history. HAMAs has become extremely adept at manipulating narratives, news, emotions, etc and Israel frankly has lost the ability to effectively counter the BS.

And the western media has made zero effort to educate the unknowing public as to how Hamas manipulates. Journalists in Palestine are only journalists so long as they report the correct narrative. Aid groups are notoriously corrupted, many cases of infiltration- like we just saw with 12? UN aid workers having participated directly or indirectly in the 10/7 massacre.

Palestine has had decades of opportunity to make a deal for statehood. The problem is Hamas radicals are in power, not ordinary people. As much as it’s not PC to say, but there are a lot of Palestinians who support Hamas- indoctrination is rampant and admittedly many of Israel’s policies under Netanyahu have angered Palestinians.

Unfortunately I think the only way Palestine can attain freedom is by ridding itself of terrorist leadership and deciding they want to create their own successful future. The narrative needs to be first and foremost Hamas and the ultimate oppressors. There is no sense in supporting an independent Palestine under leadership like Hamas. Gaza has effectively been its own state- to the point where some countries recognize its independence. There will be no difference between an independent Gaza and the status quo. Israel’s action should be seen as an opportunity for Gazans to take back their future.

But that’s not the message we’re hearing from critics of Israel. Israel could vanish tomorrow, Palestine could have everything, and yet Palestinians would still live in the same hellscape. Just with more space.

I deeply empathize for anyone in Gaza looking for a free life and peace. I honestly don’t know at what point civilians have to bear some responsibility responsibility for their government that’s clearly not acting in their best interest. It’s not never in my mind, but I have zero idea where one places that line.
 
AG_PhamD said:
I don’t disagree there is line. Too often any Soros criticism is automatically spun as antisemitism when it’s merely a criticism of an ultra wealthy person having an outsized influence on politics- especially in districts they do not live or work in and perhaps may have never even been to.

Of course, there are also those who criticize Soros in the context or alluding to Elders of Zion Jewish global domination conspiracies. Or even those who do not but have a history of promoting ridiculous conspiracies, bigotry, xenophobia, etc.

Therefore I think the best way to assess the Soros criticism is by the track record of the person speaking, not to make assumptions based on critical speech alone.

As a Jew I think it’s vitally important not to diminish the term “antisemitism” by erroneously throwing out accusations at every disagreement or for political purposes.

Trump is repeatedly labeled as an antisemite and I don’t really see much evidence. I hate to sound like I am “defending” him because I think he’s a reprehensible person. But he has Jews in his family including his precious daughter. His #2 at his company, Weiselberg, obviously is Jewish. He was extraordinarily favorable to Israel during his Presidency, perhaps one of if not the most. He’s said some bad jokes that have fallen flat. The Charlotesville “good people on both sides” clearly referred to pro-statue vs anti-statue people- he literally denounced neo-Nazis moments earlier. His problem so far as I can see, for someone who loves public speaking, is atrociously inarticulate.

To be clear, I do not think he is a good person, not being an antisemite doesn’t atone other wrongdoings and pathological defects, I do not think he should be ever serve in public office again whether that be president or dog catcher.
Click to expand...
I don't think Trump is an anti-Semite. He's just anti everyone who isn't for him, no matter who or what they are.
 
Back
Top