Leviton Decora homekit wall switches

[Cmaier]

In the last couple of weeks I’ve replaced a bunch of light switches in my house, with: 1 Leviton version 2 dimmer, 5 Leviton no-neutral switches, 2 Leviton bridges.

The bridges are for use with the no-neutral switches - the ‘version 2” switch requires a neutral but doesn’t need a bridge. The bridges are tiny, around the size of my pinky. I needed two because three of the switches are downstairs in the garage on a different wifi network than the two switches that are upstairs on the opposite end of the house.

The no-neutral switches are very recently introduced - up until now the main option was the Lutron Caseta’s, and I have heard mixed things about them (and I don’t like the way they look).

Just thought I’d post my thoughts:

- installation and setup was easy. For the no neutrals, I seem to have had to set them up first in the My Leviton app, before homekit. The version 2 switch installed to homekit without needing Leviton’s app. There were Firmware updates available for all of this, and the installation went very fast.

- so far homekit connectivity has been very solid. I’ve got a bunch of automations set up, and they all seem reliable.

- The main thing to get used to is that the decora rocker doesn’t stay clicked into one position or the other - it reverts to center. This makes sense since it would be weird if the switch appeared off, but you overrode that with homekit. (Though no weirder than a 3 way switch setup where the switches don’t match the light state).

- the version 2 dimmer comes with a traveler wire. I didn’t know this, so if I feel adventurous I may pick up an extra couple of version 2 switches and try a 3-way setup. (I have at least 6 3-way switches that are the old-style switches - not even decora - that I’ve been itching to replace. But figuring out which wire is which looks a little painful, since I think they wired it up with the lights in the middle in both cases.)

- these pass the non-technophile tests. In the two or three weeks since I replaced the first switches I have not received any complaints from my wife or kid. (And two of the switches are in my kid’s bathroom).

I’ve got some more switches on the way, including a version 2 dimmer with a built-in motion sensor and guidelight, and a version 2 switch (without dimmer).

 

[Citysnaps]

For my home automation I have a variety of Leviton and other brands in-wall dimmers that are Z-Wave protocol (but not HomeKit controlled/automated) and they behave the same way. No complaints with any of them. I think the Levitons are better quality.

 

[Cmaier]

For my home automation I have a variety of Leviton and other brands in-wall dimmers that are Z-Wave protocol (but not HomeKit controlled/automated) and they behave the same way. No complaints with any of them. I think the Levitons are better quality.

I’m probably just biased because when I was in the IBEW in manhattan we used all leviton and lutron stuff.

 

[Citysnaps]

I’m probably just biased because when I was in the IBEW in manhattan we used all leviton and lutron stuff.

I love Lutron devices! Top shelf, imo. Sadly no Z-wave devices or bridge. You were an electrician?

 

[Cmaier]

I love Lutron devices! You were an electrician?

I was an apprentice. Retired from the union at age 18 ;-)

My father always worked at contractors in manhattan or queens as a project manager or Vice President, so I spent a lot of time at construction sites growing up. South Street Seaport, remodel of Shea stadium, other fun things.

 

[Citysnaps]

I was an apprentice. Retired from the union at age 18 ;-)

My father always worked at contractors in manhattan or queens as a project manager or Vice President, so I spent a lot of time at construction sites growing up. South Street Seaport, remodel of Shea stadium, other fun things.

Nice, and nice place to grow up. On the subject of AC wiring, have you ever come across WAGO lever connectors - used instead of wire nuts? They're pretty slick, though a little pricey. Think they came out in the early 2000s.

 

[Cmaier]

Nice, and nice place to grow up. On the subject of AC wiring, have you ever come across WAGO lever connectors - used instead of wire nuts? They're pretty slick, though a little pricey.

I’ve seen them but never seen them In actual use. Wire nuts are good enough for me

 

[Citysnaps]

I’ve seen them but never seen them In actual use. Wire nuts are good enough for me

So how does HomeKit do home automation? Are different bridges required for different communication protocols and different devices?

 

[Cmaier]

So how does HomeKit do home automation? Are different bridges required for different communication protocols and different devices?

You can use bridges, but they are not needed if you are using homekit-native devices. Apple TV’s and HomePods that happen to be in the house act as hubs (transparently) so that you can do remote control. I think iPads can do that trick too. Devices that don’t have wifi usually require some sort of bridge. The protocol between the bridge and the device is often not entirely clear.

So, looking at the home app, I have 10 hubs and bridges in my house

As far as hubs go, I have 3 homepods/HomePod minis, and 4 Apple TV’s that are currently listed. Only one is “connected’ at any time, and the rest are in ‘standby.”

I then have a raspberry pi that is acting as a bridge to my ring cameras, and 2 Leviton bridges for the no-neutral wall switches. (Since there is no neutral, you have to connect to ground to provide power to the cpu on the switch. Since anything more than a trickle of current would be dangerous, it must be that the no-neutral switches are using some much lower power protocol (zigbee? z-wave? I dunno) and the bridge takes care of the protocol conversion for homekit.

Homekit also supports Thread, now.

 

[Citysnaps]

You can use bridges, but they are not needed if you are using homekit-native devices. Apple TV’s and HomePods that happen to be in the house act as hubs (transparently) so that you can do remote control. I think iPads can do that trick too. Devices that don’t have wifi usually require some sort of bridge. The protocol between the bridge and the device is often not entirely clear.

So, looking at the home app, I have 10 hubs and bridges in my house

As far as hubs go, I have 3 homepods/HomePod minis, and 4 Apple TV’s that are currently listed. Only one is “connected’ at any time, and the rest are in ‘standby.”

I then have a raspberry pi that is acting as a bridge to my ring cameras, and 2 Leviton bridges for the no-neutral wall switches. (Since there is no neutral, you have to connect to ground to provide power to the cpu on the switch. Since anything more than a trickle of current would be dangerous, it must be that the no-neutral switches are using some much lower power protocol (zigbee? z-wave? I dunno) and the bridge takes care of the protocol conversion for homekit.

Homekit also supports Thread, now.

Thanks... Regarding HomeKit native devices, is there a reasonable variety?

Reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if the company that developed my HA software (Indigo Domotics) that runs on my Mini has the staying power for the long game. And should I be thinking about a Plan B should they be snatched by another company, decide to retire, whatever.

What I like about the system is easy programability/flexibility/conditionals/trigger events/time-outs/etc for my devices, primarily in-wall dimmers, plug-in dimmers, wall outlets, multiple battery PIR detectors/magnetic reed switches, siren, and exterior POE cameras. And the ability to graphically design my own custom UI for phones/tablets computers.

Was kind of hoping Apple would snatch them since they have a long track record and a large established customer base. But that doesn't seem likely. If google did, I'd be very disappointed.

 

[Cmaier]

Thanks... Regarding HomeKit native devices, is there a reasonable variety?

Reason I'm asking is I'm wondering if the company that developed my HA software (Indigo Domotics) that runs on my Mini has the staying power for the long game. And should I be thinking about a Plan B should they be snatched by another company, decide to retire, whatever.

What I like about the system is easy programability/flexibility/conditionals/trigger events/time-outs/etc for my devices, primarily in-wall dimmers, plug-in dimmers, wall outlets, multiple battery PIR detectors/magnetic reed switches, siren, and exterior POE cameras. And the ability to graphically design my own custom UI for phones/tablets computers.

Was kind of hoping Apple would snatch them since they have a long track record and a large established customer base. But that doesn't seem likely. If google did, I'd be very disappointed.

There’s a new standard - Matter - that will eventually make it so that everybody’s devices work with one another without most bridges (but not most pre-existing devices). Apple is on board, as is everybody else, looks like.

In the mean time, Homekit has a decent collection of native devices, but it’s not the biggest ecosystem by any means. (It may be the most secure, at least).

Right now there is a good selection of smart plugs and power strips, decent selection of wall switches and wall dimmers, decent number of wall outlets, a few choices for smart locks, some cameras (though there are few “homekit secure video” cameras still - other cameras support homekit but not the HSV features), a couple choices of thermostat (the best being Ecobee, probably), a bunch of PIR detectors (I’m using one in my garage), a couple nice garage door controllers, etc. There are weather stations, water sessions, vibration and motion sensors, door sensors, etc.

Companies that make a lot of homekit stuff include meross, WeMo (i think that’s Belkin?), Leviton, lutron, Eve, Philips (via their hubs), Logitech, Eufy (I think that’s anker).

Right now, my homekit setup includes many Ring cameras (using homebridge, which is software that runs on a raspberry pi and acts as a bridge), two ecobee thermostats, a bunch of Leviton wall switches, a PIR sensor, a meross garage door opener, some outdoor meross power strips, two August door locks, and some wemo and meross outlets (the kind you plug into a normal outlet).

Automations have some limitations - you can do fairly complex logic (by using iOS shortcuts technology), but it’s missing fairly simple things like “every time this light turns on, turn it off again after 15 minutes.” (What’s weird is that you can trigger device B to turn off 15 minutes after you turn on device A, but you can’t easily control device A based on an event involving device A. I found a work around that gets me 10 minute delay, but any more than that fails). I’m hoping that WWDC gives us more capabilities there.

 

[Citysnaps]

There’s a new standard - Matter - that will eventually make it so that everybody’s devices work with one another without most bridges (but not most pre-existing devices). Apple is on board, as is everybody else, looks like.

In the mean time, Homekit has a decent collection of native devices, but it’s not the biggest ecosystem by any means. (It may be the most secure, at least).

Right now there is a good selection of smart plugs and power strips, decent selection of wall switches and wall dimmers, decent number of wall outlets, a few choices for smart locks, some cameras (though there are few “homekit secure video” cameras still - other cameras support homekit but not the HSV features), a couple choices of thermostat (the best being Ecobee, probably), a bunch of PIR detectors (I’m using one in my garage), a couple nice garage door controllers, etc. There are weather stations, water sessions, vibration and motion sensors, door sensors, etc.

Companies that make a lot of homekit stuff include meross, WeMo (i think that’s Belkin?), Leviton, lutron, Eve, Philips (via their hubs), Logitech, Eufy (I think that’s anker).

Right now, my homekit setup includes many Ring cameras (using homebridge, which is software that runs on a raspberry pi and acts as a bridge), two ecobee thermostats, a bunch of Leviton wall switches, a PIR sensor, a meross garage door opener, some outdoor meross power strips, two August door locks, and some wemo and meross outlets (the kind you plug into a normal outlet).

Automations have some limitations - you can do fairly complex logic (by using iOS shortcuts technology), but it’s missing fairly simple things like “every time this light turns on, turn it off again after 15 minutes.” (What’s weird is that you can trigger device B to turn off 15 minutes after you turn on device A, but you can’t easily control device A based on an event involving device A. I found a work around that gets me 10 minute delay, but any more than that fails). I’m hoping that WWDC gives us more capabilities there.

Hey... thanks a bunch. Soaking it all in and will look into Matter.

 

[Herdfan]

I’ve seen them but never seen them In actual use. Wire nuts are good enough for me

Just wait until you are old and doing a couple dozen wire nuts will have your hands screaming at you that night.

Nice, and nice place to grow up. On the subject of AC wiring, have you ever come across WAGO lever connectors - used instead of wire nuts? They're pretty slick, though a little pricey. Think they came out in the early 2000s.

Not used the lever ones although I have seen them. I have used the push in ones when box space is tight.

 

[Cmaier]

Just wait until you are old and doing a couple dozen wire nuts will have your hands screaming at you that night.



Not used the lever ones although I have seen them. I have used the push in ones when box space is tight.

I’m old enough that I retired from the international brotherhood of electrical workers over 30 years ago I just replaced 6 or 7 wall switches with smart switches, each requiring 3 or 4 wire nuts. My fingers are fine

Most important tool is a good wire stripper - some of these boxes had an awful lot of spare wire coiled up in them, and these stupid switches come with wired leads instead of terminals, so that adds a bunch more.

On another topic, I wouldn’t recommend the WeMo scene controller switch. I picked one up and set it up in the home app to control three outlets on a MeRoss outdoor power strip. It works only intermittently, and the delay is not good.

 

[Citysnaps]

Not used the lever ones although I have seen them. I have used the push in ones when box space is tight.

I was introduced to them by the electrician that did wiring for our house. When it came time for inspection, I wasn't finished with my home automation plan, other than doing the low voltage Cat 6 and Coax runs to the closet myself. So I had him put in standard bulk pack Leviton switches and outlets to get us through electrical inspection. And later replaced them myself with Z-Wave dimmer/switches/outlets for the circuits I wanted to automate once I finished my plan. I liked the WAGO lever nuts, as did the inspector, who was an electrician himself. Bought a bunch for my own use. A quality product made in Germany.

 

[Citysnaps]

Most important tool is a good wire stripper

Agree. I had a really nice Knipex wire stripper - my favorite. But some contractor (I'm guessing) walked away with it. My older Klein still worked fine. I love Knipex hand tools; superbly engineered and a joy to use.

 

[Herdfan]

I’m old enough that I retired from the international brotherhood of electrical workers over 30 years ago I just replaced 6 or 7 wall switches with smart switches, each requiring 3 or 4 wire nuts. My fingers are fine

It's not the few, its the 10's of thousands before those.

Most important tool is a good wire stripper - some of these boxes had an awful lot of spare wire coiled up in them, and these stupid switches come with wired leads instead of terminals, so that adds a bunch more.

Hlaf my Lutron's had terminals, half flying leads. Seems I ordered mine right in the middle of them changing over, so some came with leads, some terminals depending on the model.