Russia-Ukraine

I take it as given that this was revenge for the mutiny. Putin is a known cold blooded murderer. Am I allowed to say this?
Yes, but only because it's a fact. The dude is still launching missiles and killing innocent women and children. Prigozhin had him on his heels and paid the price and it's a shame because he really could've change the trajectory of this war. Putin is a piece of shit doesn't deserve to live.
 
Yes, but only because it's a fact. The dude is still launching missiles and killing innocent women and children. Prigozhin had him on his heels and paid the price and it's a shame because he really could've change the trajectory of this war. Putin is a piece of shit doesn't deserve to live.
Unclear what Prigozhin would’ve done but it should be made clear Prigozhin’s Wagner were responsible for a lot of war crimes in Ukraine and were just as much neo-Nazis as Rusich and other Russian mercenary groups (the name Wagner kinda gives it away). So it could’ve changed the war, but … maybe not. It could’ve ended up as just a different set of assholes in charge, possibly more competent, and just as if not more murderous. The best outcome for Ukraine would’ve been a Russian civil war which is still in the cards depending on whose left and what they have. I should point out the obvious of course that a Russian civil war comes with serious risks given the nuclear arsenal.
 
Well, Putin will probably be given a pass on this. I don’t think anyone will be missing this guy. Someone standing up to Putin so publicly may have been this guy’s introduction to the world, but you don’t need to do much research to know they were hired muscle/killers, and a lot of people are probably glad there’s one less menace to deal with.

It is strange, because this was essentially an in-fight. Putin has to make a point, but this whole saga shows the disorganization and chaos of Russia’s invasion.
 
Well, Putin will probably be given a pass on this. I don’t think anyone will be missing this guy. Someone standing up to Putin so publicly may have been this guy’s introduction to the world, but you don’t need to do much research to know they were hired muscle/killers, and a lot of people are probably glad there’s one less menace to deal with.

It is strange, because this was essentially an in-fight. Putin has to make a point, but this whole saga shows the disorganization and chaos of Russia’s invasion.
Sadly if this blows over that menace will be replaced by another Russian mercenary group I’m sure - Wagner’s activities in Africa are way too valuable to Russia both monetarily and for their foreign policy. Funnily enough the UK was just about to label Wagner a terrorist group.
 
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Unclear what Prigozhin would’ve done but it should be made clear Prigozhin’s Wagner were responsible for a lot of war crimes in Ukraine and were just as much neo-Nazis as Rusich and other Russian mercenary groups (the name Wagner kinda gives it away). So it could’ve changed the war, but … maybe not. It could’ve ended up as just a different set of assholes in charge, possibly more competent, and just as if not more murderous. The best outcome for Ukraine would’ve been a Russian civil war which is still in the cards depending on whose left and what they have. I should point out the obvious of course that a Russian civil war comes with serious risks given the nuclear arsenal.
My view is that as long as he was attacking his own that it took the focus off of the horrors they were all committing in the Ukraine.
 
My view is that as long as he was attacking his own that it took the focus off of the horrors they were all committing in the Ukraine.
Absolutely and the best outcome would’ve been that they had kept fighting each other indefinitely.
 
Unclear what Prigozhin would’ve done but it should be made clear Prigozhin’s Wagner were responsible for a lot of war crimes in Ukraine and were just as much neo-Nazis as Rusich and other Russian mercenary groups (the name Wagner kinda gives it away). So it could’ve changed the war, but … maybe not. It could’ve ended up as just a different set of assholes in charge, possibly more competent*, and just as if not more murderous. The best outcome for Ukraine would’ve been a Russian civil war which is still in the cards depending on whose left and what they have. I should point out the obvious of course that a Russian civil war comes with serious risks given the nuclear arsenal.
*I should caveat that given that it seems like Wagner’s entire command staff was on the plane, maybe an increase in competency was never in the cards. I mean how stupid could you be?
 
Makes one wonder if they boarded the plane alive.
Even so. To all get scooped up in one blow? Although we knew he couldn’t be too bright - after all he crossed the Rubicon and then turned around. He was dead the moment he failed to go forward. He might’ve failed and died anyway but that decision to give up sealed it, which a man like him should’ve known. Everyone else did.
 
If the video I’m seeing is legit, that plane dropped like a stone. Not subtle. That’s not how planes crash.
 
If the video I’m seeing is legit, that plane dropped like a stone. Not subtle. That’s not how planes crash.
News said they believed it was from a missle strike based on the photos shown from it. I don't think anyone, including Russia, is denying it was deliberate, 9 innocent people lost their lives as well but we all know Putin doesn't give a shit about collateral damage.
 
9 innocent people lost their lives as well but we all know Putin doesn't give a shit about collateral damage.

If the passenger list I saw on Wikipedia (they seem to have removed it for some reason) should be correct, then the innocents would be the three crew (two pilots and one flight attendant), which is definitely bad enough.
According to that list all seven passengers were Wagner people, who I wouldn‘t really consider innocent, but even they should have had a fair trial. But this wasn‘t about justice anyway…

 
If the passenger list I saw on Wikipedia (they seem to have removed it for some reason) should be correct, then the innocents would be the three crew (two pilots and one flight attendant), which is definitely bad enough.
According to that list all seven passengers were Wagner people, who I wouldn‘t really consider innocent, but even they should have had a fair trial. But this wasn‘t about justice anyway…

Sounds the world is a better place as a result.

Executions, torture and looting: Wagner Russian mercenaries accused of abuses in Africa​

 
Here is one of the guys who died
dmitri-utkin-vermogen.jpg

Note the nice Schutzstaffel and Nazi eagle tattoos (which helped identify him). This is one creepy sack of manure that the world is better off without.
 
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I’m seeing competing anonymously sources reports from US intelligence between bomb vs missile.
On ABC News last night the said the holes in the wings were indicative of a missile as a bomb would've created much smaller pieces all over. 🤷‍♂️
 
I saw the video: the intact-ish plane was falling almost vertically before the lithobraking. If there had been a bomb onboard, it would have been falling in an umbrella arc of pieces. A missile would be more likely to stop the forward progress of the plane.
 
On ABC News last night the said the holes in the wings were indicative of a missile as a bomb would've created much smaller pieces all over. 🤷‍♂️

Who knows? I’m not jumping on either.

If a missile, we would have likely detected it via space assets.
Ehhh short range AD missiles are not guaranteed to be spotted, especially the smaller ones. They burn fast hit their target (or not) and are gone, you only get a small window to see them. Very hard. I won’t say impossible because I don’t know but knowing what little I know, that’s very hard.

I saw the video: the intact-ish plane was falling almost vertically before the lithobraking. If there had been a bomb onboard, it would have been falling in an umbrella arc of pieces. A missile would be more likely to stop the forward progress of the plane.

I’m just the messenger! :) I also saw people linking to stories where US Intel was saying it was a missile. So again not drawing any conclusions.

 
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