Russia-Ukraine

Fascinating.

Absolutely fascinating.

I'd love to see this happen.

My interest in this was piqued by a small (tiny) footnote to a report which I read - I still remember sitting, stunned, at my desk in my office in the EU HQ, which was next door to Lavrenti Beria's villa, when I read this - which had reported - as a foot-noted aside - that the Patriarchate in Moscow (Moscow!) had turned down a request by the Orthodox churches in South Ossetia and Abkhazia to transfer their theological loyalty to Moscow rather than Tbilisi.

Reading that, I was absolutely fascinated - normally the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian state (ever since the time of the Tsars) have had a disgustingly symbiotic relationship - so why - on this occasion - was the (Moscow Patriarchiate) church taking a different stance to that promoted by the Russian government - and I thought this merited further examination and exploration, and asked to be allowed spend some time thinking about, researching, analysing - and writing about - this.

While my superiors were a bit puzzled - I was supposed to spend my time editing reports on, and analysing current political stuff and current breaches (among other things) of the Sarkozy-Medvedev agreement - they were surprisngly tolerant of my desire to take a flying leap into Orthodox Church history and re-visit the theology of the early middle ages, around a thousand years earlier.

Anyway, I found it an extraordinarily instructive, illuminating - (and, to my surprise, my superiors insisted on sending what I wrote to Brussels - I had merely intended to make them aware of stuff I thought they should know - whereupon Brussels made clear that they "liked" - to use a modern term - my report) exercise, and a very useful one as well.

So, the (deafening) silence of the Moscow Patriarchy on current events (and their past history) is......to put it mildly, rather telling.
I’d love to read your report!!

Independently on the views on religion itself and the - sadly often - corrupt religious institution (which includes the one I belong to), this stuff is important. It sets the underlying tone, and it usually aids in moving the ethical and moral needle of a large part of the population (even those who don’t believe, or heck even dislike the Pope for example will weight his opinions and acts).

I will keep an eye open towards the Church-State relationship in both Ukraine and Russia and I will let you know if I hear anything.

For now I can attach here the Weekly edition in English of the Osservatore Romano (Vatican newspaper) released today as you might find something of interest. There isn’t much related to Ukraine as of course the events just unfolded, but the pontiff’s request for fasting “for Peace” on Ash Wednesday is quite a strong as a “non direct” rebuke of Russia one can do.

Edit: trying to attach a file but it’s says it’s too big. About 1.9MB
 
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Exactly. Also, prior conflicts he entered with the support of a troll army second to none. His trolls are nowhere this time around. I'm still amazed.
I can assure you they are active on Twitter, but they seem very organic (ie very real useful idiots, not brute-force bot armies) so I suspect the big propaganda operation is being spread on Telegram, which has seen a large increase in users in Europe since the emergence of QAnon.

It’s not out in the open until the Telegram channel participants spread it on other social media.
 
Funny you brought up a pope. Do you remember John Paul 2 whose Parkinson's diagnosis was hidden for 12 years? There are just diseases that have linear paths (and most cancers isn't one of those). While I agree that rumors have to be treated like rumors, the thing about leaders with authoritarian tendencies (including Trump) are way more likely to make decisions motivated by personal stuff than those with less authoritarian styles. That's actually one of the key weaknesses of authoritarianism. Not everything makes geopolitical sense.

BTW, Trump probably has MCI compounded by whatever psychiatric condition he has I'm not qualified to diagnose. In fact if it weren't for the "bleach moment" that was purely driven by his psychopathology, he'd still be president. So let's not minimize the conditions leaders may have that impact their ability to lead.
I won’t comment on health issues, but yes. Some are going to be ill for real. Putin might or might be not be ill. I am just saying to be very careful.

And why did you have to bring John Paul II? Now I am on the brink of weeping at the idea of what he’d think and how saddened he’d be about all of this.
 
I can assure you they are active on Twitter, but they seem very organic (ie very real useful idiots, not brute-force bot armies) so I suspect the big propaganda operation is being spread on Telegram, which has seen a large increase in users in Europe since the emergence of QAnon.
Fair enough, I couldn't stomach twitter. Anytime I log in it offers me trollservative shit and I nope TF out.
 
BTW, Trump probably has MCI compounded by whatever psychiatric condition he has I'm not qualified to diagnose. In fact if it weren't for the "bleach moment" that was purely driven by his psychopathology, he'd still be president. So let's not minimize the conditions leaders may have that impact their ability to lead.
Nor can we discount his infamous "covfeve" hissy tweet. 😁
 
I do share you curiosity about the Russian Orthodox Church as they are strangely very quiet.

I can tell you, as a matter of pure curiosity, that there are rumors that the Vatican will make the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church a patriarchate which would make the Ukrainian eastern church a sui iuris church, obtaining the highest “level” (wrong term but you get the meaning) an eastern rite church could obtain. As far as I know the request has been made last week and the Vatican is seriously considering it. It might not be much of a practical “war” gesture, but if it happens the symbolic meaning will not escape Eastern Christians. It will - and this is my evaluation - probably infuriate the Russian Orthodox Church.

Well the Russian ambassador to the Vatican has now had an opportunity to provide any western rite input from the Pope himself to Putin, after Pope Francis dropped in to have a chat with that ambassador and stayed for about half an hour. It was a virtually unprecedented kind of meeting in modern times of war. Sadly, nothing that was said appears to have made any particular changes in Putin's behavior, although it's possible he might hesitate now to put so many civilians at risk in Ukraine as his power grab continues. The Ukrainians had previously indicated they were not averse to papal mediation in the conflict.

 
Well the Russian ambassador to the Vatican has now had an opportunity to provide any western rite input from the Pope himself to Putin, after Pope Francis dropped in to have a chat with that ambassador and stayed for about half an hour. It was a virtually unprecedented kind of meeting in modern times of war. Sadly, nothing that was said appears to have made any particular changes in Putin's behavior, although it's possible he might hesitate now to put so many civilians at risk in Ukraine as his power grab continues. The Ukrainians had previously indicated they were not averse to papal mediation in the conflict.

Wow I completely missed this news! Wow
 
I’d love to read your report!!

Independently on the views on religion itself and the - sadly often - corrupt religious institution (which includes the one I belong to), this stuff is important. It sets the underlying tone, and it usually aids in moving the ethical and moral needle of a large part of the population (even those who don’t believe, or heck even dislike the Pope for example will weight his opinions and acts).

I will keep an eye open towards the Church-State relationship in both Ukraine and Russia and I will let you know if I hear anything.

For now I can attach here the Weekly edition in English of the Osservatore Romano (Vatican newspaper) released today as you might find something of interest. There isn’t much related to Ukraine as of course the events just unfolded, but the pontiff’s request for fasting “for Peace” on Ash Wednesday is quite a strong as a “non direct” rebuke of Russia one can do.

Edit: trying to attach a file but it’s says it’s too big. About 1.9MB
Any chance of attaching it in two files?
 
Fair enough, I couldn't stomach twitter. Anytime I log in it offers me trollservative shit and I nope TF out.
Yeah, you have to be selective with who you follow, and as soon as someone reliable gains some traction (eg over, say, 10000 followers) the trolls/useful idiots start reply-spamming. But Twitter has recently included options so that only people you follow can reply to your tweets and some better moderation that has greatly reduced the noise.

It also helps that they have moved to Telegram channels to get their daily/constant fix of outrage.
 
Yeah, you have to be selective with who you follow, and as soon as someone reliable gains some traction (eg over, say, 10000 followers) the trolls/useful idiots start reply-spamming. But Twitter has recently included options so that only people you follow can reply to your tweets and some better moderation that has greatly reduced the noise.
I follow the NASA, some physicians and Moog. Zero politicians. My slate is almost completely blank.
 
Ah well. Still, it was quite creative & I would have loved if true!
That’s more or less the problem. People want X to be true so they avoid questioning X. So easy for misinformation to spread…

It would certainly be nice if PornHub took action and imposed wanktions, eh, sanctions.
 
By the way - and @yaxomoxay might share my curiosity on this matter (I wrote a paper for Brussels on the history, theology and splits of the various Orthodox Churches in Ukraine - there are a few - and Georgia, & Russia and their influence, past and present on matters of identity, and on which of them are answerable to - or subordinate to - issues of autonomy, so-called "autocephalous status" (and independence) loom large here - some of the others, and why, when I served with the EU mission in Georgia over a decade ago), I'd love to hear what the Russian Orthodox Church (which derives its legitimacy from its links - historic and theological - with Ukraine) thinks of all this, not least as one of the main historic roles of the Russian Orthodox Church has been to serve as a theological support for the most egregious expressions of Russian nationalism (and autocracy, and Orthodoxy).
There is a small Georgian Orthodox community in my neighborhood. They hold services early on Sundays at an Episcopal church I used to attend. The musical and ceremonial aspects of the services are beautiful. The services, especially for holidays, can last for hours.

I had to learn a piece of music in Georgian for work. Since the language has a completely different alphabet, I had to search for a phonetic guide online to even get started. I spoke to the priest after one of their services, asking for help perfecting the pronunciation of the song (which was to be performed for Georgians visiting America). He was very kind and got his whole family involved in helping me navigate the intricacies of properly pronouncing the text of the song.

After a year of holding their services at the church, the congregation brought a huge Georgian feast to the coffee hour after the Episcopal service to show their thanks. It was delicious, and I learned they had the former head chef from the Georgian embassy prepare it.

It was a great experience to interact with the local Georgian community. I can only imagine how they are feeling today with everything happening in Ukraine.
 
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