Russia-Ukraine

[yaxomoxay]

I will say I think we at least try not to bomb civilian areas. Doesn't mean we always succeed, but we try. Russia seems willing to bomb anything and kill anyone.

I don’t disagree with the above, but that’s a different subject. Obviously what Putin is doing is on a whole different level of piece-of-shitness.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Trump and Pompeo have both recently said that Putin is smart and that American and European leaders are dumb. (Trump has been saying it since 2016 at least). The fact is, it is Putin who looks really dumb right now. Of course, Trump and Pompeo have always looked dumb, so they are staying on brand.

trump said our leaders are dumb. was he not a leader very recently???

 

[GermanSuplex]

trump said our leaders are dumb. was he not a leader very recently???

Like everything else with Trump, its projection. He meant everyone but him, clearly. This is the same guy who voted by mail while criticizing it, said only guilty people settle lawsuits, only guilty people plead the fifth, etc.

 

[Zoidberg]

I will say I think we at least try not to bomb civilian areas. Doesn't mean we always succeed, but we try. Russia seems willing to bomb anything and kill anyone.

They are not “willing” to bomb civilians. Bombing civilians is their strategy*.

Look at what was left of Grozny.

*while calling the civilians being bombed nazis, of course.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I do consider Putin smart. One doesn’t stay in power in Russia for 20+ years while making it again a quite powerful country by being stupid.

Said that, he might’ve been very wrong in his evaluations here. However I am very afraid that people are underestimating him right now in the evaluation of the long term goals. I have no idea what he wants in the long run, but let’s not claim victory over Russia not even a week after the war started while he’s getting Ukraine (probably at a higher price than expected, but he’s still getting it).

In other words, let’s be cautious before calling him dumb.

Excellent post and some very well made points.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In Russia, Ekho Moskvy, a radio station that for decades has been the emblem of the Russian capital’s liberal opposition and intelligentsia, - one of the few remaining genuinely independent media, one of the few remaining media to date from (and faithfully represent, the independent media that grew out of the "Glasnost" reforms) - has been taken off the air, its director said.

Also suppressed (and shut down) was the independent TV station, Dozhd TV (TVRain).

And - this is almost parody - the Russian media have been banned from using the words "war, invasion, or attack" to describe events in Ukraine. Unprecedented.

Elsewhere, in a further tightening of the economic screws on Russia, the EU has approved cutting off seven Russian banks from Swift banking system, including the VTB bank, according to Bloomberg news.

 

[yaxomoxay]

And - this is almost parody - the Russian media have been banned from using the words "war, invasion, or attack" to describe events in Ukraine. Unprecedented.

Is “walkabout” allowed?

 

[Arkitect]

Is “walkabout” allowed?

Well it's certainly not a "walk in the park" for Putin.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Apparently, according to the Guardian, Roskomnadzor, Russia's media monitoring agency, is threatening to ban the Wikipedia website throughout the country (Russia) for an article titled “Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022”.

The agency is accusing Wikipedia of “illegally disseminated information” about the Russian military, Ukrainian civilian casualties, and bank runs.

Dear me.

 

[SuperMatt]

It looks like Ukraine was able to slow down Russian forces temporarily, but the news today has been far less optimistic. I fear Russia will soon have large numbers of troops in Kyiv.

 

[yaxomoxay]

It looks like Ukraine was able to slow down Russian forces temporarily, but the news today has been far less optimistic. I fear Russia will soon have large numbers of troops in Kyiv.

Without external support, Kiev will fall.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This is being fought with more than bombs and bullets:

Two interesting tweets from @Mij_Europe tonight:

"Senior EU officials tell me the EU is considering offering qualified Russian citizens EU passports - to accelerate Russian economic brain drain

This is just one of many innovative measures being considered to complement economic sanctions now in place "

and:

"Other ideas include offering asylum and refugee status for soldiers that want to desert the Russian army - to incentivise defections - as long as they have not committed war crimes. Plus many more. The policy ingenuity is remarkable "

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Is “walkabout” allowed?

I believe this is what the GOP officially calls "a field trip with a couple knuckleheads."

 

[Deleted member 215]

Don’t get me wrong, I do agree with the above statements. However in order to criticize Russia - which as you say it is very important to do - we also need to do lots of introspection, esp. in reference to the war in Iraq.

I do think there is a pervasive historical attitude of “only America is allowed to do this” (Condoleeza Rice on Fox News saying that invasion of a sovereign country is a war crime, that’s rich). It does matter because we keep doing it and we don’t learn our lesson. It doesn’t mean we can’t criticize Putin. But let’s remember this when it comes time to support the next “regime change”…

 

[SuperMatt]

I do think there is a pervasive historical attitude of “only America is allowed to do this” (Condoleeza Rice on Fox News saying that invasion of a sovereign country is a war crime, that’s rich). It does matter because we keep doing it and we don’t learn our lesson. It doesn’t mean we can’t criticize Putin. But let’s remember this when it comes time to support the next “regime change”…

Invading Iraq was terrible and inexcusable. That being said, we didn’t threaten to annex the country and make it part of the United States. This action by Putin is not really comparable.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Invading Iraq was terrible and inexcusable. That being said, we didn’t threaten to annex the country and make it part of the United States. This action by Putin is not really comparable.

I vehemently disagree with this. Invading a sovereign country when unprovoked, causing the death of countless civilians, is invading a sovereign country regardless of the end-game. Let’s call a spade a spade.

 

[Deleted member 215]

It's comparable because they're both acts of imperialism. Yes, there is a scale of sympathetic regime > puppet state > annexation, but in terms of damage done, it can be just as great as annexation (if not more), even if the level of imperialism isn't quite the same.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I vehemently disagree with this. Invading a sovereign country when unprovoked, causing the death of countless civilians, is invading a sovereign country regardless of the end-game. Let’s call a spade a spade.

We were just exporting democracy and Putin is just keeping the peace.

I don't know why some people insist on looking past original mission statements. It never goes anywhere good.

 

[SuperMatt]

I vehemently disagree with this. Invading a sovereign country when unprovoked, causing the death of countless civilians, is invading a sovereign country regardless of the end-game. Let’s call a spade a spade.

The 2 situations have many differences, and yes, some similarities. I am not ignoring the similarities, and you should not ignore the differences.

 

[Macky-Mac]

It looks like Ukraine was able to slow down Russian forces temporarily, but the news today has been far less optimistic. I fear Russia will soon have large numbers of troops in Kyiv.

One problem with having a "miles long convoy" is that if the opposition blocks the first few vehicles in the convoy, then you get a "miles long traffic jam"