Russia-Ukraine

I don’t know how much stock to put in this, but I’ve heard some of this Russian “incompetence” ascribed to soldiers who really don’t want to be there fighting their neighbors…so they’re doing things like taking long circuitous routes so they’ll purposely run out of gas. If true they are in effect throwing the fight. 😏
 
Everybody is against Russia now. Disney is not going to release new films there. Warner Brothers didn’t want to be left out, so they announced they will not release their new film “The Batman” in Russia. Instead, they will re-release this one:

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I suspect Russia will surrender before the movie is over.
 
That convey heading to Kiev is 40 miles long which is enormous. I can’t see Ukraine managing to hold off that many troops. The funny thing is if NATO were involved, that convoy would be wiped out by cruise missiles and it’s amazing so many vehicles are bunched together in one place.
 
Looking at the possible final outcomes of the current offensive, the resistance is going to be fierce, and as more and more Ukrainians have personal friends and family members fall victim to the Russians, they are likely to go to the wire.

For reference, in Afghanistan, the Soviets between 14000 and 30000 men (depending of the source) over the course of nine years.

The Ukrainian forces are claiming over 5000 russians have been killed already. Given the sheer amount of tanks and convoys completely destroyed that are well documented, it might be high, but it's not impossible (of course, there are no official numbers yet). For the Russians, that's between 1/3 (official numbers) and 1/6th (unofficial numbers) of the Soviet-Afghan war losses in less than a week.

And when they finally take "control" of most of the country –which seems inevitable, given the Russian military sheer numbers, notwithstanding all their issues– there's definitely no way that Putin manages to place a puppet. The Ukrainians ousted the previous one for much less than what's going on now. Maintaining him in power would require large numbers of Russian troops permanently stationed all over Ukraine, which doesn't seem sustainable in the long term.

Adding to this, the Ukrainians are going to get more deadly, as they are going to get more desperate, and they now have a virtually unlimited supply of weaponry to defend themselves thanks to NATO and the EU. The EU is also going to link up our grid system to Ukraine's, to ensure power supply wherever possible, even when the Russians cut it off.

The Russians claimed air supremacy within 24 hours, and now, five days in, the Ukrainians are attacking convoys with slow, budget military drones running on 100 hp civilian aircraft engines seemingly without a bother. That would never happen if the Russians indeed had any kind of actual air control. And without air control, the Russians can only rely on bombing from a distance, which will hit and enrage the civilian population even more.

So, the final outcome becomes clear, and it begs the following question: what would happen if Putin manages* to nuke Kyiv (or any other city for that matter)?

* by manage, I mean that the command is actually carried out, as I'm sure that that order would give pause even to the most ruthless people around him.
 
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Everybody is against Russia now. Disney is not going to release new films there. Warner Brothers didn’t want to be left out, so they announced they will not release their new film “The Batman” in Russia. Instead, they will re-release this one:

View attachment 12122

I suspect Russia will surrender before the movie is over.
Well great. 🤨 Now the Russians can take us to The Hague and charge us with war crimes.
 
Well great. 🤨 Now the Russians can take us to The Hague and charge us with war crimes.
Very much doubt it.

In fact, today, between 100 and 140 diplomats walked out of an address delivered (online, as he was unable to be present, in person, due to sanctions banning Russian flights over European airspace) by Sergei Lavrov, (the Russian Foreign Minister), at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.
 
Very much doubt it.

In fact, today, between 100 and 140 diplomats walked out of an address delivered (online, as he was unable to be present, in person, due to sanctions banning Russian flights over European airspace) by Sergei Lavrov, (the Russian Foreign Minister), at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva.
I think @Thomas Veil was referring slyly to the Batman and Robin film being released there.
 
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Scenes of those diplomats leaving in the UN

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1498695374441172997/

Giving a speech at the 'Human Rights Council'.

Really?!

Really?!!

🤨
Far from me defending Putin (and I am glad to see what happened), but after the war in Iraq (and quite possibly the mess in Afghanistan) with hundreds of thousands of deaths, I wonder if the US actually belongs there.

Edit: let me clarify that I am not looking for moral equivalencies, however the question remains in particular after the war in Iraq. On an international level and in modern times, it’s the US that brought the concept of pre-emptive wars to the front and center of military options.

I also do see the difference between the war in Iraq (unprovoked and based on lies) and the war in Afghanistan (no matter how badly handled, it’s rooted in 9/11).
 
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Far from me defending Putin (and I am glad to see what happened), but after the war in Iraq (and quite possibly the mess in Afghanistan) with hundreds of thousands of deaths, I wonder if the US actually belongs there.
I think for a true parallel, it would be if everyone & Russia walked out during the US speech about Iraq during the endless search.

Yes, it's always easy to jump on the US numerous f'ups in the past, but THIS is a real time horror movie happening that Russia was warned against repeatedly. Russia said "So?" Went on, 'f'ed that up, and now has to go all in, with everyone knowing what's coming.

So...

No.
 
I think for a true parallel, it would be if everyone & Russia walked out during the US speech about Iraq during endless search.

Yes, it's always easy to jump on the US numerous f'ups in the past, but THIS is a real time horror movie happening that Russia was warned against repeatedly. Russia said "So?" Went on, 'f'ed that up, and now has to go all in, with everyone knowing what's coming.

So...

No.
Don’t get me wrong, I do agree with the above statements. However in order to criticize Russia - which as you say it is very important to do - we also need to do lots of introspection, esp. in reference to the war in Iraq.
 
Don’t get me wrong, I do agree with the above statements. However in order to criticize Russia - which as you say it is very important to do - we also need to do lots of introspection, esp. in reference to the war in Iraq.
We have done that. Many times over I believe. Did we bring those responsible up on any kind of charges? Do we ever? We do recognize where we f'd up, and it plays a part in all of our conversations when we consider future actions.

What you are seeming to say is that that introspection would NEVER end, thus we would NEVER have to the right to criticize anyone doing anything awful again.

Just because one does bad shit in the past, doesn't mean one can't recognize bad shit now or even worse.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1498697956526071810/
 
Just because one does bad shit in the past, doesn't mean one can't recognize bad shit now or even worse.

Oh, absolutely. As I clarified in my original post, I am not looking for moral equivalencies. I guess j am just saying that we should remember we ain’t saints either and to keep in mind that international politics is… messy. Just for context.
 
Far from me defending Putin (and I am glad to see what happened), but after the war in Iraq (and quite possibly the mess in Afghanistan) with hundreds of thousands of deaths, I wonder if the US actually belongs there.

Edit: let me clarify that I am not looking for moral equivalencies, however the question remains in particular after the war in Iraq. On an international level and in modern times, it’s the US that brought the concept of pre-emptive wars to the front and center of military options.

I also do see the difference between the war in Iraq (unprovoked and based on lies) and the war in Afghanistan (no matter how badly handled, it’s rooted in 9/11).
Yes. Beyond the human tragedy, some of the long-lasting consequences to the Iraq invasion are that it gave a free pass to others to do whatever they wanted by just “whatabouting-it”, and it cemented the “USA-is-an-evil empire” narrative for at least another half century, just as Vietnam was fading away.
 
This is what happens when you live in an autocratic dictatorship with an isolated ruler who resides in an echo chamber.

Its funny to have seen Pompeo and Trump harp on about what a genius Putin is as the larger conversation is heading in the opposite direction. While the crisis in Ukraine is much bigger than Trump, its a god sign of why someone like Trump is unfit to serve and what can happen when one man has too much power. It also must irk Trump to see Zelensky get so much praise, as he exhibits the qualities Trump claims to have in quantities but clearly is lacking entirely. Trump would have been tweeting from a bunker by now, urging his people to fight as he watched cable news and maybe cheated at a few holes of golf.
 
This is what happens when you live in an autocratic dictatorship with an isolated ruler who resides in an echo chamber.

Its funny to have seen Pompeo and Trump harp on about what a genius Putin is as the larger conversation is heading in the opposite direction. While the crisis in Ukraine is much bigger than Trump, its a god sign of why someone like Trump is unfit to serve and what can happen when one man has too much power. It also must irk Trump to see Zelensky get so much praise, as he exhibits the qualities Trump claims to have in quantities but clearly is lacking entirely. Trump would have been tweeting from a bunker by now, urging his people to fight as he watched cable news and maybe cheated at a few holes of golf.
Trump and Pompeo have both recently said that Putin is smart and that American and European leaders are dumb. (Trump has been saying it since 2016 at least). The fact is, it is Putin who looks really dumb right now. Of course, Trump and Pompeo have always looked dumb, so they are staying on brand.
 
Trump and Pompeo have both recently said that Putin is smart and that American and European leaders are dumb. (Trump has been saying it since 2016 at least). The fact is, it is Putin who looks really dumb right now. Of course, Trump and Pompeo have always looked dumb, so they are staying on brand.
I do consider Putin smart. One doesn’t stay in power in Russia for 20+ years while making it again a quite powerful country by being stupid.

Said that, he might’ve been very wrong in his evaluations here. However I am very afraid that people are underestimating him right now in the evaluation of the long term goals. I have no idea what he wants in the long run, but let’s not claim victory over Russia not even a week after the war started while he’s getting Ukraine (probably at a higher price than expected, but he’s still getting it).

In other words, let’s be cautious before calling him dumb.
 
Oh, absolutely. As I clarified in my original post, I am not looking for moral equivalencies. I guess j am just saying that we should remember we ain’t saints either and to keep in mind that international politics is… messy. Just for context.

I will say I think we at least try not to bomb civilian areas. Doesn't mean we always succeed, but we try. Russia seems willing to bomb anything and kill anyone.
 
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