Russia-Ukraine

If the West had placed troops in Ukraine ahead (assuming we'd have Ukraine's permission) we'd have given Putin the upper hand in future negotiations, Biden, Macron, et al would have been portrayed as warmongers and likely lost elections to Russia-friendly parties.
Obviously I disagree with this. And please note that I was very specific in saying that the troops had to be outside of the two regions Putin pretended to want.


It's the preparation paradox, again. If you prepare for something well enough, it doesn't happen, so in retrospect it appears you have overreacted.
It’s a risk, but a minor contingent would’ve sent a strong signal and would’ve been a huge deterrent. Granted, now I am talking of a fictional universe so we’ll never know.
When one side is willing to fight, and the other will do anything to avoid fighting, there's only one possible outcome.
True.
 
Obviously I disagree with this. And please note that I was very specific in saying that the troops had to be outside of the two regions Putin pretended to want.
How often have you read and heard that Clinton was a warmonger? That Russia is threatened by NATO's expansion? Portraying the West –and pro-Western actors– as expansionist and Russia as the victim is what they do.
 
How often have you read and heard that Clinton was a warmonger? That Russia is threatened by NATO's expansion? Portraying the West –and pro-Western actors– as expansionist and Russia as the victim is what they do.
I think we’re talking about two slightly different things here. We have a tendency to declare that whoever sends troops somewhere is a warmonger (Clinton, Bush, Blair, Berlusconi, Mitterrand etc). Sometimes it might even be true. I give you that.

However, in my opinion it would’ve not given Mr Putin the upper hand in negotiations. He would’ve faced a much more harsher domestic environment (war with the US and Europe at the same time? Not sure how many generals want it), and a trade issue (not sure how much China would’ve supported Bombing of US troops). Most importantly, there would still be negotiations and most likely Ukraine would’ve still been intact. Tension would’ve been sky high of course.
 
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This is how stupid these Fox hosts and their viewers are. This wasn't a single, off the cuff our out of context statement. Carlson has been pushing this garbage for some time now. Now, he suddenly feels the need to backtrack. Give me a break. Someone at the network made him do this. You don't need to be a foreign policy or military expert to know Russia is in the wrong here. Yet just now, Carlson has had an epiphany, and he wants credit for having the "integrity" to admit he was wrong? Major facepalm.

 
I've started a new thread. If a mod wants to move these posts to it, that would be great:


I'll hop on this, I think it's pretty obvious which posts need to be moved, if one gets left behind, anyone feel free to edit and add a "Please move to Racism in Europe thread ..." to your post and be happy to oblige.
 
That's the thing. It would bring it to its knees. What would be the impact for Putin, though? Would he finally start to lose support? Or would Russians just see their economic devastation to be the result of Western aggression and support Putin even further?
 
I saw this on The Washington Post:

Russia and Ukraine said they agreed to limited local cease-fires to facilitate “humanitarian corridors,” as several cities warned that they were running out of supplies. But local officials in the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson said Russia is not cooperating with them and is pushing a plan to distribute its own aid unilaterally.
 
That's the thing. It would bring it to its knees. What would be the impact for Putin, though? Would he finally start to lose support? Or would Russians just see their economic devastation to be the result of Western aggression and support Putin even further?

I think that if Mr Putin is removed from office, or power, it will come from elite fractures, and actions, (who may be motivated by public unrest), and not by the public.

Drastic and draconian media laws have been passed in the Russian parliament today (FB has been shut down, and the BBC is choosing not to broadcast from Russia - which is unprecedented - out of a concern of their own staff falling foul of these new incredibly stiff regulations).
 
I saw this on The Washington Post:
Well, “Russia not cooperating on proposed humanitarian corridor” sounds exactly like something I would expect from Russia here. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, that it is just Ukrainian propaganda to make Russia look bad, but that would take a better warthog than I…
 
Speaking of things about Russian conduct in Ukraine I’m inclined to believe… 🤬

[T]he NATO secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, confirmed that Russia had attacked Ukraine with anti-personnel cluster bombs, which kill so indiscriminately they are banned under international law.

 
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the establishment of a no-fly zone in Ukraine by the United States and its NATO allies could lead to a “full-fledged war in Europe.” He said Washington would continue to work with its allies to provide Ukrainians with the means to defend themselves from Russian aggression.

“The only way to actually implement something like a no-fly zone is to send NATO planes into Ukrainian airspace and to shoot down Russian planes, and that could lead to a full-fledged war in Europe. President Biden has been clear that we are not going to get into a war with Russia,” Blinken said during a news conference Friday in Brussels, where he is meeting with European allies following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

“But we are going to tremendous lengths with allies and partners to provide Ukrainians with the means to, to effectively defend themselves, and of course, we're seeing every single day their extraordinary heroism, as well as very, very real results in what they're doing to achieve that,” he said.
“We are looking every day at what technologies, what capacities we can effectively deliver to, to Ukraine to defend itself, and that's an ongoing conversation, literally happening on a daily basis both with Ukraine and government officials, as well as among allies and partners. And so, the main focus is on making sure that anything we provide can be used, used effectively and in a timely way,” Blinken said.

Idiots at the helm. I wonder if they understand how dangerous these statements are or if they just do it for the sound bite.
 
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