Russia-Ukraine

[quagmire]

Idiots at the helm. I wonder if they understand how dangerous these statements are or if they just do it for the sound bite.

Dangerous in the sense that it empowers Russia to continue to do what they are doing?

If so, it's not like Russia didn't know that already that the US/EU will not setup a no fly zone over Ukraine since that would be a trigger for WWIII......

 

[Yoused]

It looks like Germany will be sending 2700 Soviet-made anti-aircraft missiles to Ukraine – best to keep those thinos properly behind the Iron Curtain.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Dangerous in the sense that it empowers Russia to continue to do what they are doing?

Dangerous as it’s a green light (not empowerment, it’s worse) for more.

If so, it's not like Russia didn't know that already that the US/EU will not setup a no fly zone over Ukraine since that would be a trigger for WWIII......

The issue is not the no fly zone (at this point I’d oppose it myself, maybe a temporary one in west Ukraine would be ok), but the addition and contextualization that basically says “anything in order to avoid war with Russia.”

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Dangerous as it’s a green light (not empowerment, it’s worse) for more.


The issue is not the no fly zone (at this point I’d oppose it myself, maybe a temporary one in west Ukraine would be ok), but the addition and contextualization that basically says “anything in order to avoid war with Russia.”

I do feel there is a bit too much saying the quite part out loud reporting including sharing which country is giving the Ukrainians what military hardware. It’s like Putin could replace his intelligence operations with subscriptions to western news.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I do feel there is a bit too much saying the quite part out loud reporting including sharing which country is giving the Ukrainians what military hardware. It’s like Putin could replace his intelligence operations with subscriptions to western news.

Well, I am concerned indeed about how people are somewhat celebrating a sort of victory (as in “we’re showing it to him!”) already, due to the so-much advertised sanctions. I am afraid a good part of what’s happening is smoke and little meat.

 

[User.45]

I do feel there is a bit too much saying the quite part out loud reporting including sharing which country is giving the Ukrainians what military hardware. It’s like Putin could replace his intelligence operations with subscriptions to western news.

Or perhaps the goal is exactly to insinuate how much damage Ukrainians can inflict. This also implies that the NATO/EU countries have very little concerns about their weapon shipments getting hijacked.

 

[User.45]

Kremlin staff didn't expect Putin to invade Ukraine and were shocked by the severity of Western sanctions, report says

Kremlin staff told Russian outlet Agency they only prepared for sanctions over recognizing Luhansk and Donetsk, not a full invasion into Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.com

Per this article, Kremlin staff expected that Putin would just stick with Luhansk and Donetsk. Old Putin would have just done that.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The nuclear deterrent seems to have the exact opposite effect here. The collective West could probably easily go in and crush Russia, but because of the threat of Putin potentially using nukes we have to idly sit by and watch innocent people get slaughtered.

The only silver lining (if you can even use that here) is Putin has completely fucked himself and Russia for the foreseeable future. Sure, he might take control of Ukraine but he’s going to be dealing with a well supported insurgency the entire occupation while getting sanctioned to death. I also believe China is going to watch the situation carefully, be of little help, and possibly back off a little on their own aspirations seeing this as a preview of what the west is capable of.

 

[User.45]

The nuclear deterrent seems to have the exact opposite effect here. The collective West could probably easily go in and crush Russia, but because of the threat of Putin potentially using nukes we have to idly sit by and watch innocent people get slaughtered.

The only silver lining (if you can even use that here) is Putin has completely fucked himself and Russia for the foreseeable future. Sure, he might take control of Ukraine but he’s going to be dealing with a well supported insurgency the entire occupation while getting sanctioned to death. I also believe China is going to watch the situation carefully, be of little help, and possibly back off a little on their own aspirations seeing this as a preview of what the west is capable of.

Keep in mind, Ukraine has at least 460K trained soldiers who are motivated and now also quite effectively equipped. Russian forces have about 150-200K lined up

 

[Yoused]

Keep in mind, Ukraine has at least 460K trained soldiers who are motivated and now also quite effectively equipped. Russian forces have about 150-200K lined up

Nevermind the fact that most of the soldiers of U are highly motivated while a non-ignorable fraction of R boys really do not want to be there at all.

 

[GermanSuplex]

If you ever needed an example of how bad the GOP is, Trump and Pompeo are fawning over Putin and calling him a genius, and Graham is calling for his assassination. Two opposite opinions and both of them on the ass-ends of wrong.

 

[Runs For Fun]

idly sit by and watch innocent people get slaughtered.

But pretty much nobody is sitting idly by. Direct involvement isn’t the only way to support them. They’re getting fed tons of intelligence and weapons and other supplies.

 

[Yoused]

Facebook, Twitter and the BBC all now blocked - well, the BBC are no longer covering news stories in Russia - in Russia.

Extraordinary, this attempt to hermetically seal the Russian state off from (any information emanating from) the rest of the world.

Very Soviet, and very Tsarist.

Yes and no. About 105 years ago, the US Congress passed a law prohibiting certain types of criticizm of US actions related to the War to End All Wars, specifically stepping on the citizens' free speech/free press Constitutional rights. Because the UK was an American ally and we were supposed to be supporting them, this led to a legal action against a film, resulting in the most unfortunate case name of US v Spirit of '76 (as the content of the film was nominally critical of the British).

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

But pretty much nobody is sitting idly by. Direct involvement isn’t the only way to support them. They’re getting fed tons of intelligence and weapons and other supplies.

I'm saying in comparison to dropping the hammer if nukes weren't on the table, how many innocent lives could be saved.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

If you ever needed an example of how bad the GOP is, Trump and Pompeo are fawning over Putin and calling him a genius, and Graham is calling for his assassination. Two opposite opinions and both of them on the ass-ends of wrong.

Trump has now also called it a holocaust by the Russians. Maybe Trump should debate himself of 5 minutes ago.

 

[Yoused]

Trump has now also called it a holocaust by the Russians. Maybe Trump should debate himself of 5 minutes ago.

Fine, but absolutely not in public, because the crossflow of gibberish would be carcinogenic.

 

[lizkat]

What’s awaiting Russia may be much worse than the chaos of 1990s

If Putin does not change course – and fast – Russia may find itself in an economic catastrophe akin to that of 1918.

www.aljazeera.com

Yikes.

The Washington Post also has a piece that just boggles the mind in terms of the economic shutdown and cascading effects on the Russian economy (and on those outside Russia who are now implementing the sanctions).

For example shipping giant Maersk (king of container shipping and other bulk shipping) said it's not going to be handling any more cargo in or out of Russia now, due to the sanctions and uncertainty over payments.

The piece outlines the growth the economy underwent in Russia after the chaos of the 90s, and noted that while it took nearly 30 years for global trade improvements to establish a Russian middle class (give or take the disruptions of the global 2008 financial crisis and the effects of the initial rounds of sanctions after the 2014 invasion of Ukraine), it has taken less than a week for it all to crash inwards like a house of cards.

What a terrible miscalculation on the part of Putin. He appears to have taken the relatively muted reaction to the annexation of Crimea as a green light for further aggression. He must not have appreciated institutional and human memory of the USSR's behavior while building out its repressive satellite states. Those memories will have been amplified a thousandfold now with the aggression against Ukraine.

Seems almost biblical of Putin, bringing the walls crashing down on him, all because he projected his own aggressive outlook onto NATO... and feared offensive attack on Russia, from closer and closer, as the border defenses moved eastward -- in response to unease among Eastern European countries as to Russia's intentions.

Russia’s business ties to the West took 30 years to build and one week to shatter

Economic stability — and higher oil prices — began to return ... as Putin rose to power, sparking a “honeymoon period” for foreign investment in the economy, according to Sergey Aleksashenko, a top official in Russia’s Finance Ministry and central bank in the 1990s.

“Many sectors were open, investment was flowing, the economy was growing at 7 percent a year, and many Western companies benefited from that time,” he said in an interview.

But now the banks and all those new investors, from the likes of retailers like Ikea to car manufacturers and oil giants like BP and Exxon, have quickly complied with the sanctions in response to the invasion of Ukraine this past week.

“Russia will pay an enormous price in the economy. … The future is very dark,” Aleksashenko said.
If new leadership somehow comes to power in Russia and halts the war, it is possible trade ties can be slowly rebuilt, he said.

But “if Putin stays in power another 10 or 15 years,” he said, “I think by that time Russia will be more isolated from the global economy than it was in the time of the Soviet Union.”

 

[Macky-Mac]

Trump has now also called it a holocaust by the Russians. Maybe Trump should debate himself of 5 minutes ago.

his pollsters must have gotten to him

 

[Pumbaa]

his pollsters must have gotten to him

Or a lack of access to Russian money.

 

[User.45]

Or a lack of access to Russian money.

Was about to respond the same. Russian assets realized, 1) payments aren't coming 2) Putin's too busy to release the kompromat.

Boy if Putin went out with all the kompromat released what a beautiful would we'd end up with...