Russia-Ukraine

[fooferdoggie]

Quebec diner drops the word "poutine" from its menu, replacing it with "mess of stuff" or something like that.

Don’t want your fries thought of as a pile of shit.

 

[Zoidberg]

Looks like Putin said that sanctions are an act of war. Which means he sees Russia at war with the EU and the US

When it comes to public announcements, with the Russians there’s:
what they say
what they mean
what they think

What they say is irrelevant because they don’t mean it.
And they would never tell us what they really think.

Examples:
-Those hackers have a mind of their own
-That BUK missile wasn’t ours
-It’s just exercises
-Okay, fine we are taking troops away from the border now (as they were increasing their numbers)
-We want to denazify Ukraine
-It’s a peacekeeping mission
-Sanctions won’t affect us, we are well prepared
-Without our rockets the ISS will fall off the sky on the US
-We agree to a ceasefire
-Because of yoir actions we will have to open a new front

In short, don’t listen to what they say. They are trolls.

(There’s a few exceptions, such as Putin’s rage-speech the other day where it is possible to learn more)

"We have no choice but to open a new front to prevent you from making us embarrass our military!!!!!1!!11!!!"
I can interpret the threat 3 ways:
A) Regular war. - No way.
B) Nuclear war. - Not yet
C) Cyberwar.

D) He’s running his mouth as usual, just last year they hacked the fuel distribution system on the West coast, and the same goes for power grids, US elections, Brexit campaigns… they have been at war for years.

 

[User.45]

D) He’s running his mouth as usual

That's what I was eluding to. The more empty threats, the more the threats devalue. Like inflation. "Threatflation"?

 

[User.45]

So sad looking at the imagery from this war. 2022 and it looks like a third-world country scene right now. Totally unnecessary and all for ego.

Putin seems to be acting out of desperation. Joe Biden walked into a hell of a number of crisis. And we have half the country who think Trump’s approach to Putin was “strength” and he only attacked because of Biden.

So our usual strength in bad times is no more, as seen with how we handle voting, the pandemic, January 6 and now this.

We have the leading cable news host spouting pro-Russia propaganda, along with the most recent former-president and his Secretary of State. Then you have other loons on the right calling for assassination and GOP senators sharing photos of the Ukrainian president after being asked not to. Sitting members of congress attending white nationalist conferences…

Not a good time.

‘Key to white survival’: how Putin has morphed into a far-right savior

The Russian president’s ‘strong man’ image and disdain for liberals has turned him into a hero for white nationalists

www.theguardian.com

good article on this

 

[User.45]

Neat

 

[User.45]

 

[Alli]

There is a question no one is asking - maybe it’s premature or maybe no one wants to talk about.

Suppose that Senator Graham gets his wish true and Mr Putin is deposed or even killed. Someone else will need to take over, while troops are in Ukraine and while sanctions are on. After all the Russian losses only a suicidal politician with a strong desire to die in office could just give up and leave Ukraine as if nothing happened, especially considering that the easement of sanctions would take months to be noticed by the Russian populations. Also, the Russian generals would never allow for such a visible loss and for a weakening of Russian military weapons.

In other words, be careful what we wish for, if doesn’t include a Russian loss on the ground in Ukraine.

While I would not mind Putin being removed from power, obviously the hope that he would be replaced by someone more reasonable with a clearer head as to what is good for the Motherland.

As soon as something happens to Putin, I would hope that they let Navalny out of prison and place him in charge.

 

[Alli]

And then there’s the exemplary preparedness of the well-trained Russian forces. I wish I thought to link the video when I saw it yesterday, but it’s an elevator full of Russian soldiers. Yes. They were trying to take over a building, but couldn’t be arsed to use the stairs. Once in the elevator, the Ukrainians turned off the power, leaving them caged.

You can’t make this stuff up.

 

[Pumbaa]

And then there’s the exemplary preparedness of the well-trained Russian forces. I wish I thought to link the video when I saw it yesterday, but it’s an elevator full of Russian soldiers. Yes. They were trying to take over a building, but couldn’t be arsed to use the stairs. Once in the elevator, the Ukrainians turned off the power, leaving them caged.

You can’t make this stuff up.

Ah yes, saw that one on Reddit.

 

[Thomas Veil]

That would be sweet, if that happens.

I don't think it will, but OTOH I'm not as convinced as others that an internal "liquidation" of Putin will necessarily result in something as bad or worse. At the very worst, I'd hope it would be a return to the pre-invasion status quo. Stories out of Russia have indicated some of his staff are going along with this only out of fear of defying Putin (which is what happens when you have a madman in charge...look at the US 2017-2020).

 

[SuperMatt]

Nikki Haley went on Meet the Press today to discuss the Russia/Ukraine war. After watching it, you can see why our country lost so much cachet in the world when she was our ambassador to the UN. She is absolutely clueless. And the “Trump was tougher on Putin than Biden” is still coming out of her mouth? Unbelievable. Here in the real world, everybody saw that 4 years of Trump‘s disastrous foreign policy helped lead directly to this.

 

[Zoidberg]

Yes, I have read that; it seems to have been widely reported.

Meanwhile, both Visa and Mastercard have decided to suspend all of their operations in Russia.

This means that cards isseud by Russian banks will not work in their systems, and that foreign issued cards will no longer work in Russia.

Strong echoing vibes of what happened in the Sudetenland, (and I visited the Sudetenland a good few years ago, the German presence there is obliterated, - they were expelled, none too kindly, immediately after WW2; while there, I was taken to visit some cemeteries, and examine some municipal records), the 1939 Russo-Finnish war, and the Spanish Civil War (and the role played by the International Brigades).

This evening, I saw a piece (by Jukia Ioffe) who argued that the invasion of Ukraine "is Europe's 9-11."

She could very well be right.

Another parallel between the early WW2 and today’s situation:

In 1936, Goering, in charge of the Nazi air force, used the Spanish civil war as a training ground to prepare ahead of what would become WW2. He sent pilots to test airplanes, bombs and train them by bombing everything they wanted (civilians, whole villages, armed forces…)

Putin did a similar thing by using Syria as a training ground. If they use the same tactics they used in Aleppo, not much will be left of Kyiv when they are done.

 

[Yoused]

Meanwhile, our national genius,

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1500325620789743622/

thinks tie F-22 is a bomber.

 

[User.45]

Another parallel between the early WW2 and today’s situation:

In 1936, Goering, in charge of the Nazi air force, used the Spanish civil war as a training ground to prepare ahead of what would become WW2. He sent pilots to test airplanes, bombs and train his pilots by bombing everything they wanted (civilians, whole villages, armed forces…)

Putin did a similar thing by using Syria as a training ground. If they use the same tactics they used in Aleppo, not much will be left of Kyiv when they are done.

They'll need air superiority first. If they've really had that, they wouldn't have lost so many ground vehicles. Drones had really changed the equation since WW2

 

[Zoidberg]

They'll need air superiority first. If they've really had that, they wouldn't have lost so many ground vehicles. Drones had really changed the equation since WW2

I meant in terms of destruction. They might keep using artillery if they cannot keep their airplanes safe (although that's just a matter of time).

 

[User.45]

I meant in terms of destruction. They might keep using artillery if they cannot keep their airplanes safe (although that's just a matter of time).

Yes, at this point all they can consistently do is park their artilleries at city borders and “shell” the cities until the artilleries run out. But to date to the best of my knowledge, their airstrikes have been at least cautious

 

[yaxomoxay]

At the very worst, I'd hope it would be a return to the pre-invasion status quo.

This is what I am not entirely convinced about.

We might get a much saner person that Putin (ok, it’s a low bar), but they doesn’t meant that the person will not have to face certain realities. I don’t see a Russian leader, as sane as he might be, saying to Russians that they wasted counted lives, and that they will suffer for years all for nothing and all without an actual military loss on the ground. That would be suicidal and the Russian people, as starved as they might become, will never ever accept. They’re a very proud nation. If nothing else an even stronger form of Russian nationalism might arise very quickly, especially if the change in leadership and the loss are due to sanctions on what could be a result of globalization.

Also, to no Russian the fact that pre-invasion status quo will be impossible will escape. Even if tomorrow Russia retreats from Ukraine, and even if the next leader is the Russian reincarnation of Lincoln, the geopolitical chessboard is forever changed. There is no “sorry, we joked”. Ukraine will arm itself to the teeth, NATO will have to guarantee protections to surrounding countries, while at the same time Russia will have to be kept in check through sanctions and other means.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Quebec diner drops the word "poutine" from its menu, replacing it with "mess of stuff" or something like that.

The dish "poutine" - is an old, traditional, working-class, French-Canadian (i.e. Québécoise) dish where chips (French fries to Our Transatlantic Cousins) are served with gravy and cheese curds. At its best, it is delicious.

This dish - it dates from at least the 1950s, - long precedes Mr Putin's rise to power, and has nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Anyway, I, personally would both deplore and regret that a restaurant would feel the need to do this. "Poutine" has its own history and traditions, and Mr Putin's disgraceful invasion of Ukraine should not have any influence on how this dish is named.

It is every bit as idiotic as the fatuous attempt (in parts of the US) to change the name of "French fries" to the ludicrous "freedom fries" when France made clear their lack of enthusiasm for the wars of President Bush.

 

[Arkitect]

The dish "poutine" - is an old, traditional, working-class, French-Canadian (i.e. Québécoise) dish where chips (French fries to Our Transatlantic Cousins) are served with gravy and cheese curds. At its best, it is delicious.

This dish - it dates from at least the 1950s, - long precedes Mr Putin's rise to power, and has nothing whatsoever to do with him.

Anyway, I, personally would both deplore and regret that a restaurant would feel the need to do this. "Poutine" has its own history and traditions, and Mr Putin's disgraceful invasion of Ukraine should not have any influence on how this dish is named.

It is every bit as idiotic as the fatuous attempt (in parts of the US) to change the name of "French fries" to the ludicrous "freedom fries" when France made clear their lack of enthusiasm for the wars of President Bush.

Definitely agree with you.
What a silly, uninformed, bit of "virtue signalling" that is. SMFH.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

When it comes to public announcements, with the Russians there’s:
what they say
what they mean
what they think

What they say is irrelevant because they don’t mean it.
And they would never tell us what they really think.

Examples:
-Those hackers have a mind of their own
-That BUK missile wasn’t ours
-It’s just exercises
-Okay, fine we are taking troops away from the border now (as they were increasing their numbers)
-We want to denazify Ukraine
-It’s a peacekeeping mission
-Sanctions won’t affect us, we are well prepared
-Without our rockets the ISS will fall off the sky on the US
-We agree to a ceasefire
-Because of yoir actions we will have to open a new front

In short, don’t listen to what they say. They are trolls.

(There’s a few exceptions, such as Putin’s rage-speech the other day where it is possible to learn more)



D) He’s running his mouth as usual, just last year they hacked the fuel distribution system on the West coast, and the same goes for power grids, US elections, Brexit campaigns… they have been at war for years.

Actually, I disagree, because quite a number of Mr Putin's speeches - as far back as his speech in Munich in 2007 - unfortunately, made it abundantly clear that he did mean what he said.

The problem there was that many of us didn't actually believe that he really meant what he said.

So, when Mr Putin spoke, it paid to pay attention.

The fact that he seems to be increasingly prey to deranged delusions doesn't change the fact that they serve as excuses, or explanations, or motivations for his actions.

Now, when the mouthpieces of officialdom spoke, yes, I would be broadly in agreement with you.

That was just a megamix, a cunning blend of lies, propaganda, mendacity, excuses, distraction, distortion, and trolling.

Yes, at this point all they can consistently do is park their artilleries at city borders and “shell” the cities until the artilleries run out. But to date to the best of my knowledge, their airstrikes have been at least cautious

This is because, I would imagine, of the fact that Ukrainians are still seen as fraternal brother Slavs, even if erring and errant ones; besides, I cannot imagine that many in the Russian army (at least, those from Russia) - many of whom have friends and family and kinship networks in Ukraine - are all too keen to escalate the war further.

If they do, not only will they be facing a fierce resistance (again, a horrid hybrid of the Spanish Civil War and the Russo-Finnish War comes to mind) and will take horrendous casualties, but they will be facing something akin to a civil war, which did not trouble them in Afghanistan or Syria, or Chechenya, and which they have not faced for a century, but which will pose existential challenges to Russian society that I am not sure they are quite ready to face.