Russia-Ukraine

Eric said:
At least I would be willing to stand up for them instead taking to social media and saying "sorry about all your dead, Ukraine, we tried with prayers and sanctions".


I have stated publicly on several fronts that we should be standing up to dictators, whether it's Putin, Kim Jong Un, or any of them. If you are in a position to defend the defenseless, you should be defending them IMO. It doesn't mean I "want WWIII" it means it's saddening to watch bully dictators slaughtering innocent people and we need to stand up to it.
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So should the EU and Russia come to Panama's aid when we invaded them? Or how about Iraq?

We would be in a constant state of war if we got involved in every damn conflict. I know I am sounding heartless, but unless they are lobbing nukes, chemical weapons, other form of WMD's, or genocide other countries conflicts are not our concern to get to the level of getting militarily involved. What we are doing now is the proper response as of now.
 
Also...no doubt in my mind the US is also supplying real-time strategic and tactical intelligence to Ukraine. And I wouldn't be shocked if we were employing electronic counter measures to degrade Russia's communications and war fighting capabilities.
 
P_X said:
The guy is throwing empty threats, but the one about using his nukes wasn't one. It's one of the actual real threats. Better being cautious about direct international intervention.
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Nuclear threats may be genuine, but they are also a bit dodgy. Vlad himself does not hold a lanyard that he can just yank to send nuclear missiles on their way. Nuclear attack orders must precipitate through the chain of command: one weak link – an officer whose subscription to the crazy has lapsed – is all it takes to scuttle armageddon. As long as the west makes sure Vlad is the only Russian who genuinely feels cornered, we might be ok.
 
Yoused said:
Nuclear threats may be genuine, but they are also a bit dodgy. Vlad himself does not hold a lanyard that he can just yank to send nuclear missiles on their way. Nuclear attack orders must precipitate through the chain of command: one weak link – an officer whose subscription to the crazy has lapsed – is all it takes to scuttle armageddon. As long as the west makes sure Vlad is the only Russian who genuinely feels cornered, we might be ok.
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Which takes us back to why that chain of command also has to think Putin is crazy and there's no justification for nuking.
 
One problem with Putin's nuclear threat being anything more than a threat, is that Russia isn't the only country with nukes........Is he crazy in a suicidal way?

I have my doubts about that
 
SuperMatt said:
Nikki Haley went on Meet the Press today to discuss the Russia/Ukraine war. After watching it, you can see why our country lost so much cachet in the world when she was our ambassador to the UN. She is absolutely clueless. And the “Trump was tougher on Putin than Biden” 🐂💩 is still coming out of her mouth? Unbelievable. Here in the real world, everybody saw that 4 years of Trump‘s disastrous foreign policy helped lead directly to this.
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It’s funny hearing folks like her and Lindsey Graham - who called for assassination - talk about what needs to be done when they are impotent when it comes to standing up to Trump.

Everything Graham said about the Russian people needing to stand up is the same thing we’ve been saying about the GOP for five years now. Takes a lot of courage to ask people to risk their lives when he won’t even risk his political career.
 
GermanSuplex said:
It’s funny hearing folks like her and Lindsey Graham - who called for assassination - talk about what needs to be done when they are impotent when it comes to standing up to Trump.

Everything Graham said about the Russian people needing to stand up is the same thing we’ve been saying about the GOP for five years now. Takes a lot of courage to ask people to risk their lives when he won’t even risk his political career.
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I haven't followed all the other anti-Biden comments, that's just Republicans being Republicans. But calling for the assassination of Putin is 100% the right thing to do, cut the head off the snake. I don't see how this is a partisan talking point, we should all agree on this.
 
Re assassination, (as a proposed policy) - of Mr Putin, or any other head of state - and states - or individuals - recommending it:

No, I don't agree with, or on, or about, this.

I didn't agree with it re Mr Trump, - except as a joke in poor taste - and nor do I agree with it as a suggestion for how "we" should deal with Mr Putin.

We are either for the rule of law, or we are not.

We don't get to pick and choose when we (and our states, and our foreign policy) decide to abide by the rule of law, and when we choose to discard the inconvenience of the rule of law.
 
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Eric said:
Bullshit. THIS is a flippant attitude towards life. Cowering to a ruthless dictator is what led to it, he has just as much to lose as the rest of the world in a nuclear war.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1500469003780771846/


Nobody is standing up to Putin. At most we're inconveniencing their people with sanctions that Putin doesn't care about.
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I don’t think Biden should risk the lives of all humanity by rushing into nuclear war.

Putin is the bad guy here, not Europe or America.

Also, history should show us that direct American military involvement in a bad situation doesn’t always it better.

Right now we should tell American oil companies to immediately increase production so we can embargo Russian oil. Good story on big oil’s nonsense here:

popular.info

The audacity of oil

The American Petroleum Institute (API), the lobbying arm of the oil and gas industry, has intensified its efforts to exploit Russia's invasion of Ukraine to push the United States government to roll back environmental protections, open up more federal land for drilling, and greenlight the...
popular.info popular.info
 
As we debate how many lives "could" be lost if we involved ourselves, actual civilian lives are being lost on a daily basis in Ukraine, imagine if you all felt as passionately about them as you do cowering to a dictator. I mean you guys don't even want to see Putin taken out which is flat out mind boggling. Maybe we should take him to lunch and kiss his ring some more, it's worked out well so far.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Re assassination, (as a proposed policy) - of Mr Putin, or any other head of state - and states - or individuals - recommending it:

No, I don't agree with, or on, or about, this.

I didn't agree with it re Mr Trump, - except as a joke in poor taste - and nor do I agree with it as a suggestion for how "we" should deal with Mr Putin.

We are either for the rule of law, or we are not.

We don't get to pick and choose when we (and our states, and our foreign policy) decide to abide by the rule of law, and when we choose to discard the inconvenience of the rule of law.
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I think this depends. I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard for you to think of historical leaders where the world would be a better place had they been assassinated. But it also depends on who/what would replace them and if the assassination would get the result hoped for. If a US President was assassinated over current war actions I highly doubt that would have the desired effect of ending the war.

I don’t know much about the true feelings of the Russians but it sounds like there is no shortage of them even before this who would like to see Putin out of office permanently. So if he got assassinated (by whoever) would this attempted empire expansion continue? It doesn’t sound like it to me. Putin taking a dirt nap might be their greatest hope at this point.
 
Yoused said:
He dug himself into a hole, and now he is a cornered animal, which means that he must be approached with great caution.
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Definitely great caution is called for when dealing with him.

But while things certainly have not gone as smoothly as he'd expected, I wouldn't agree that he's in the "cornered animal" category.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
I think this depends. I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard for you to think of historical leaders where the world would be a better place had they been assassinated. But it also depends on who/what would replace them and if the assassination would get the result hoped for. If a US President was assassinated over current war actions I highly doubt that would have the desired effect of ending the war.

I don’t know much about the true feelings of the Russians but it sounds like there is no shortage of them even before this who would like to see Putin out of office permanently. So if he got assassinated (by whoever) would this attempted empire expansion continue? It doesn’t sound like it to me. Putin taking a dirt nap might be their greatest hope at this point.
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Beware the law of unintended consequences.
 
Eric said:
As we debate how many lives "could" be lost if we involved ourselves, actual civilian lives are being lost on a daily basis in Ukraine, imagine if you all felt as passionately about them as you do cowering to a dictator. I mean you guys don't even want to see Putin taken out which is flat out mind boggling. Maybe we should take him to lunch and kiss his ring some more, it's worked out well so far.
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How is it mind boggling? How would you feel about Putin having Biden assassinated? What response would that trigger from us?

Look I am all for encouraging the Russian people to stand up to Putin and overthrow him. But will not in any way condone the US/EU to assassinate Putin. Just as much as I was against us taking out that Iranian general. Remember how we thought that could trigger a war with Iran?
 
Eric said:
As we debate how many lives "could" be lost if we involved ourselves, actual civilian lives are being lost on a daily basis in Ukraine, imagine if you all felt as passionately about them as you do cowering to a dictator. I mean you guys don't even want to see Putin taken out which is flat out mind boggling. Maybe we should take him to lunch and kiss his ring some more, it's worked out well so far.
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Where was this passion for starting WW3 and assassinating Putin when Russia was killing civilians in Syria?
 

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