Russia-Ukraine

[yaxomoxay]

Weekly

 

[Eric]

Putin is threatening that he would consider anybody bringing weapons to Ukrainians a legitimate target.

If Russian troops attack a shipment from NATO, would that trigger article 5? Are we then in a NATO vs Russia war?

Putin can suck it with all of his threats, he will continue to make them no matter what anyone says or does. All of this placating him just buys more time for him to kill more innocent people. He's already committing war crimes, is likely about to start using chemical weapons on civilians and will push the boundaries with any country offering assistance.

Like it or not we're all already in this war, we just don't have boots on the ground yet but it's only a matter of time before that happens. Putin's army is weakened and cannot afford to take us all on and I know his nuclear threats are what puts everyone on edge but at some point he'll have to be taken out to end this thing.

 

[Macky-Mac]

Putin is threatening that he would consider anybody bringing weapons to Ukrainians a legitimate target.

If Russian troops attack a shipment from NATO, would that trigger article 5? Are we then in a NATO vs Russia war?

There's an awful lot of "it depends" about any such event.

If it's an attack on a shipment inside one of the neighboring NATO countries.......then that might well lead to an escalation of what NATO is doing. Would Putin really want the war to spread far beyond the borders of Ukraine?

edit; From what I've read, supplies are being delivered outside of Ukraine and then transported across the border into Ukraine by their own forces. I think it would be a(another) serious miscalculation by Putin for him to think he could stage an attack on a NATO supply depot inside a NATO country and not have it result in NATO escalating its involvement.

 

[Eric]

There's an awful lot of "it depends" about any such event.

If it's an attack on a shipment inside one of the neighboring NATO countries.......then that might well lead to an escalation of what NATO is doing. Would Putin really want the war to spread far beyond the borders of Ukraine?

He can't even handle what he currently has in Ukraine...

Putin offers battle-hardened fighters from the Middle East up to $3,000 a month to reinforce Russia's invasion of Ukraine, say reports

Putin has approved 16,000 volunteers from the Middle East to be deployed alongside the Russian military after strong Ukrainian resistance.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[yaxomoxay]

Looks like this 2014 article by Kissinger on the WaPo is back in fashion. @Scepticalscribe might like it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

Then don’t say that I am crazy since I study this man’s controversial brain

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Looks like this 2014 article by Kissinger on the WaPo is back in fashion. @Scepticalscribe might like it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/henry-kissinger-to-settle-the-ukraine-crisis-start-at-the-end/2014/03/05/46dad868-a496-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

Then don’t say that I am crazy since I study this man’s controversial brain

An intelligent, nuanced, thoughtful piece, (and not just because I am largely in agreement with it, and have made a number of the same points over the course of this very thread) and thank you for sharing it.

 

[Yoused]

He can't even handle what he currently has in Ukraine...

Putin offers battle-hardened fighters from the Middle East up to $3,000 a month to reinforce Russia's invasion of Ukraine, say reports

Putin has approved 16,000 volunteers from the Middle East to be deployed alongside the Russian military after strong Ukrainian resistance.

www.businessinsider.com

This is the weakness of an oligarchy run by a tyrant. The aides, lackeys and subordinates are scared of making Цар Putin angry at them, so they tell him what he wants to hear. "We have great and powerful army!" Making decisions based on bawdlerized information is a recipe for disaster, or at least bad happenings.

Meanwhile, the oligarchs are raking in the profits, and one of the keen ways to do that is to skim and juggle. Russia has a vast army equipped with a huge arsenal of the best weapons – on paper – but those rich guys did not get rich by actually making all that stuff, they just reported it and took the money. Hence, the Russian military looks a great deal stronger than it is.

Whether Putin can push past all his problems and finally bring Ukraine to heel remains to be seen, but the longer he flounders around with his Little Big Horn, the worse it gets for him. Which could be a good thing for the people of Russia, if it leads to his downfall.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Putin is threatening that he would consider anybody bringing weapons to Ukrainians a legitimate target.

If Russian troops attack a shipment from NATO, would that trigger article 5? Are we then in a NATO vs Russia war?

I would think if Putin were to attack a convoy on NATO territory, article 5 would be within bounds.

I don’t believe Putin is a mad man, he has just made some terrible miscalculations. I suppose this is what happens when you live in an echo chamber, especially one of your own making, at which you sit at the top.

With that in mind, I think Putin is smart enough not to go head to head with NATO (and subsequently much of the rest of the world… you know you’re in trouble when Sweden is supplying arms, Switzerland is enacting Sanctions, etc). If Putin has learned anything in the past couple weeks it’s that his military is far less prepared than he expected. If his military can’t even handle Ukraine how would they handle taking on the west? And I would think China has a lot more to gain from staying out of the conflict than explicitly taking sides with Russia.

That’s why I think why NATO is being a bit over cautious about sending aid (ie fighter jets). I really don’t see the difference between sending MANPADs, Anti-tank weapons, drones, etc versus planes. I think it’s likely the former are far more consequential at this point versus 40 year old jets. But planes would be a moral boost for the Ukrainians and a signal of solidarity even if they’re not that useful. That said, I don’t think the decision making on the planes should have ever played out in public.

I would love to see Ukraine get legitimate air defence systems (ie S-400 from Turkey or Phalanx/CRAM and Patriot from the US, Iron Dome for the Israelis, etc.

As the Russians close in on Kyiv I suspect their losses will become even more embarrassing and consequently their war crimes even more heinous. They don’t have the man power, the logistics, the equipment, the tactics, and likely the troop morale to quickly take the city. A long, drawn out effort only makes these problems worse.

If we are to believe the Ukrainian information, which at least appears reasonably accurate, the Russians have already lost a tremendous amount of hardware with very little to show for it. And this is just the beginning once they get into urban warfare.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I would think if Putin were to attack a convoy on NATO territory, article 5 would be within bounds.

Agreed. He’d also lose China’s alliance in a second.

 

[Eric]

Going after the press now.

Russian troops kill New York Times journalist in Irpen, another journalist wounded

In Irpen, Russian troops killed a New York Times journalist, and another journalist was wounded, Chief of the police in Kyiv region Andriy Nebitov has said.

ua.interfax.com.ua

In Irpen, Russian troops killed a New York Times journalist, and another journalist was wounded, Chief of the police in Kyiv region Andriy Nebitov has said.

"The invaders cynically kill even international media journalists who are trying to show the truth about the atrocities of Russian troops in Ukraine. Today, a 51-year-old correspondent of the world-famous New York Times media was shot dead in Irpen. Another journalist was wounded. Currently, they are trying to take the victim out of the combat zone," Nebitov wrote on Facebook.

He also published an editorial journalistic ID and passport, according to which this is a video journalist, U.S. citizen Brent Renaud.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Agreed. He’d also lose China’s alliance in a second.

China is more than happy to buy up Russian assets at bargain basement prices during these sanctions. All of their statements in agreement with Russia (legitimacy of war, US bio weapons propaganda) really only seems to occur for their own agenda.

Going after the press now.

Russian troops kill New York Times journalist in Irpen, another journalist wounded

In Irpen, Russian troops killed a New York Times journalist, and another journalist was wounded, Chief of the police in Kyiv region Andriy Nebitov has said.

ua.interfax.com.ua

Very sad. I’ve gotta give credit to the journalists for being on the ground in such dangerous conditions, especially when the Russians have clearly demonstrated zero regard for civilian life.

 

[Eric]

China is more than happy to buy up Russian assets at bargain basement prices during these sanctions. All of their statements in agreement with Russia (legitimacy of war, US bio weapons propaganda) really only seems to occur for their own agenda.



Very sad. I’ve gotta give credit to the journalists for being on the ground in such dangerous conditions, especially when the Russians have clearly demonstrated zero regard for civilian life.

It's one thing if they get caught in collateral damage but this sounds targeted. I remain of the opinion that Putin will not stop until he is put down, he's very close to dropping a bomb with an inch on the wrong side of the border.

 

[Zoidberg]

I really don't get how the Syrian mercenaries thing is supposed to work. Is it just infantry cannon fodder to get the Ukrainians to spend their ammunition against? Are they going to be given tanks? Training? Modern equipment that the Russians themselves don't have?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Going after the press now.

Russian troops kill New York Times journalist in Irpen, another journalist wounded

In Irpen, Russian troops killed a New York Times journalist, and another journalist was wounded, Chief of the police in Kyiv region Andriy Nebitov has said.

ua.interfax.com.ua

This is nothing new - over a week ago, journalists from Sky News (in the UK) were attacked - I watched the (quite shocking) video they posted.

Unfortunately, this is the sort of thing that only makes the news (in the US) when journalists from the US are attacked (and killed).

 

[JayMysteri0]

This is nothing new - over a week ago, journalists from Sky News (in the UK) were attacked - I watched the (quite shocking) video they posted.

Unfortunately, this is the sort of thing that only makes the news (in the US) when journalists from the US are attacked (and killed).

Isn't that possibly dependent on which news sources one frequents?

One can't possibly cover them all, and it's possible it did make the news here. It's just killed Vs wounded tends to grab more headlines sadly.

MSN

www.msn.com

Dated March 5th.

It isn't always geographical indifference that decides what gets more attention, just what gets more eyeballs unfortunately.

 

[Eric]

This is nothing new - over a week ago, journalists from Sky News (in the UK) were attacked - I watched the (quite shocking) video they posted.

Unfortunately, this is the sort of thing that only makes the news (in the US) when journalists from the US are attacked (and killed).

Did anyone die in that incident?

 

[Yoused]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1503113473819041796/

What? No! What did she say?

Spoiler: oh

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1502960938147729413/

color me shocked

 

[Deleted member 215]

I don't know whether this biolab thing is true or not, but it's not "treasonous" to post about it.

 

[Eric]

I don't know whether this biolab thing is true or not, but it's not "treasonous" to post about it.

At the very least it's misinformation to sow distrust, Twitter should be dealing with people like this but they refuse to. Same thing with COVID, which it took them forever to finally address and likely cost the lives of tens of thousands of people. This shit matters man.

 

[SuperMatt]

I don't know whether this biolab thing is true or not, but it's not "treasonous" to post about it.

Accusing the US government of working with Ukraine to create biological weapons? Not sure if it’s treason, but it’s a VERY serious accusation.