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What;s funny is that we would need 25 labs in Ukraine to make biological weapons.
Russia-Ukraine
- Thread starter yaxomoxay
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What;s funny is that we would need 25 labs in Ukraine to make biological weapons.
SuperMatt
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Yes, I guess “serious” isn’t exactly the best term...
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Just want to say that Romney has shown himself to be a pretty standup guy in the party of nutjobs, he also marched with BLM over George Floyd and that went a long way with a lot of people. While I may not agree with him on all the issues I can see voting for him under the right circumstances.
Agreed. I don’t think we know the true circumstances of how this journalist died. But the BBC has demonstrated the Russians (presumably) firing upon them.
I’m afraid Putin won’t stop either until he achieves his goals and I’m not so sure he will accept a peace deal that’s actually tenable to the Ukrainians. I’m not particularly convinced these alleged peace talks with Putin are as serious as he makes them out to be.
With the Russians dropping bombs miles from the Polish boarder, the chances of a mishap of missile going off target into NATO territory is a frightening prospect. Or even a high ranking military member intentionally disobeying commands and targeting NATO assets for whatever reason.
I fear either by accident or by use of WMD’s due to desperation it’s entirely possible the West gets dragged into this conflict. I think and hope Putin is sensible enough to know getting involved with NATO would be extremely bad for him.
Maybe because they're willing mercenaries who have experience fighting against irregular forces in urban settings? Which is something Russia's conscripts don't have.
And maybe because they have propaganda value for Putin to show Russians they have allies in the world in fighting against those "neo-nazis" in Ukraine?
And they're not Russians, so when they die fighting their caskets won't be going home to upset Russian families?
edit; and I'll add that since they're apparently being recruited and organized under the Wagner Group, they can be conveniently left in place to help whatever puppet regime(s) Putin leaves behind when he announces "mission accomplished" and claims that Russia's troops are "leaving"
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I don’t think it’s “treasonous” but if people believe this story then they’re likely misinformed. These locations are not bioweapons labs, they’re bio research labs. These labs exist in practically every country. It’s also not surprising the US has provided funding. Funding bio safety public health programs benefits the world. Ukraine is not a particularly wealthy country. I imagine funding for post soviet countries, who by the way had an extensive bioweapons program, is to secure existing research and prevent brain drain to potentially dangerous regimes.
Pumbaa
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I think she (Tulsi Gabbard, called out by Mitt Romney for “treasonous lies” parroting false Russian propaganda) knows exactly what she is doing. She intentionally makes the normal bio research labs sound like the bio weapons labs from the Russian propaganda. She wouldn’t have brought this up unless Russia had already seeded the idea in the minds of the public, and now she is helping it grow. It might not meet the legal definition of treason, but she is clearly aiding Russia.
Then she, of course, throws in “covid”, “gain-of-function” and “the lab in Wuhan” to really appeal to the gullible.
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SuperMatt
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I know many people bought that Wuhan lab story. Ted Cruz recently repeated it, right after a major study was released showing the origin to almost certainly being a live animal market in the region. So if they bought that and the “‘Biden stole the election with millions of illegal immigrant votes” stories… they will believe pretty much anything.
In America, we have one major propaganda source - Fox News… and then the way Facebook is structured, that is a propaganda source for many others. And despite the fact that there are many legitimate sources of news, millions of people believe whatever they see there without question. So it’s difficult for me to be too judgmental of Russians whose ONLY source of news is state propaganda.
I assume you mean Xi? But yes, I absolutely agree- the whole weapons lab is retribution for the Wuhan lab theory.
I see China as a very opportunistic nation beyond the usual self interest a nation inherently has. They don’t help anyone unless it helps themselves. I suspect they will straddle the line of rhetorically supporting or acting indifferent to Russia. When it comes to material support, I think it’s a bridge too far. While the West is completely dependent on China, I would think China would not want to entangle themselves with negative attention, boycotts, and potentially sanctions.
That is unless Xi wants to take a giant gamble and use this opportunity to invade Taiwan. I suspect given the Ukrainian resistance and global response they will not be planning on that anytime soon. China has demonstrated an ability and willingness to play the long game. Ideally they have a ways to go in building up their military, so I suspect Taiwan will be on the back burner.
There is this new headline that Russia has asked China for material support. Given the sanctions and hardware losses in Ukraine, I would not be surprised if this was true. At the same time, I would not be surprised if this is just the US looking to humiliate Russia or proactively remind China not to get involved.
lizkat
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Pumbaa
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lizkat
Watching March roll out real winter
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It's interesting that it can be read either way.
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Hope he's staying safe but it feels like it's just a matter of time. This man is braver than most of us will ever be. 
thehill.com
Zelensky won't address Council of Europe due to 'urgent, unforeseen circumstances'
Zelensky won’t address Council of Europe due to ‘urgent, unforeseen circumstances’
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky will not give his scheduled Monday address to the Council of Europe, citing “urgent, unforeseen circumstances.”Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyha…
thehill.com
Gotcha hahaha. Thanks for the clarification.
I don’t have a problem with most of what she she said. It is a fact the US is funding dangerous biomedical research in an area that’s currently in a war zone. These labs absolutely need to be off limits for attacks, at least until they are safely shut down. The last thing we need is a shell destroying the containment building and potentially releasing some pathogen into the environment on top of the current tragedies of war. It’s not terribly different than concern over nuclear sites. It sounds like the US is working with the Ukrainians to make sure these research sites are secure.
She also says the Wuhan lab “may” have been the origin of COVID-19, which I still think is very much up for debate and something I suspect we will never have the answer to. Where I have a problem is the claim that all these sites around the world need to be shut down. I don’t know of any evidence these Ukrainian labs are doing gain of function research.
It’s possible to read between the lines and believe she is regurgitating claims of US funded bioweapons labs. I can see how people are interpreting it that way, especially due to the timing. But these labs were also not publicly known (not that they were secret, clearly they were not, they just weren’t in the public conscious) until a few days ago. But I don’t think concerns of lab safety, particularly in a war zone, are illegitimate. Nor is it worth asking why almost 3 weeks into a brutal war are we just now publicly hearing about the security issue of these labs.
The Russian propaganda, parroted by China, is clearly intended to play off the fears of COVID-19 and the lab leak hypothesis. It also potentially sets the stage for bioweapons being explained away by blaming the US and Ukrainians.
I suspect Gabbard and the many others demanding these labs be shut down are misinformed as to the importance of these labs and what many actually do on a day to day basis. Plus, countries are going to have labs whether we like it or not. It’s better to ensure 3rd oversight and sufficient funding than have labs operating with sketchy protocols and insufficient funding.
To say all these labs need to be shut down because they are risky sites in war and the potential for pathogen escape is like saying every single nuclear reactor needs to be shut down because they are risky sites during war and the potential for accidents like Chernobyl- in spite of hundreds of reactors operating around the world safely for decades on end, it’s an extremely clean source of energy when it comes to carbon, and there are uses of reactors beyond power generation and ship/submarine propulsion (ie medicine, biomedical research, etc). That said, having nuclear reactors and materials in the middle of an active war zone is extremely troubling and every effort should be taken to ensure the safety of these sites.
Her response is far more measured than people like Tucker Carlson who are practically parroting back the Russian propaganda. I think Gabbard is one of the more honest, straight shooting politicians, even if I don’t agree with her, so I will give her the benefit of the doubt on her statements and not look for meaning that wasn’t explicitly said. Tucker on the other hand- I’m not sure to what extent actually believes what he’s saying, but I sense this is more about supporting the anti-Fauci/NIH/CDC and anti-China narrative.
So no, I don’t think her language is at all treasonous when read at face value. Even if she was alluding to the Russian propaganda, I don’t think that would rise anything close to the level of treason either from a legal perspective. I totally disagree about shutting down these labs, I think the COVID-19 origin story is murky and unproven either way, but having legitimate concern over labs in active combat zone is not at all unreasonable.
I would agree these Ukrainian labs need to be shut down and have any potentially dangerous pathogens destroyed immediately. This should have happened weeks ago. I would say the same about nuclear sites if was as easy as incinerating them, though obviously that’s not the case (plus they need the power).
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She’ll probably be found dead in a ditch.
Meanwhile, in the US we can’t even get somebody to walk on a Fox set with a sign that just says “Tucker is a racist chode” and they would probably get lucrative job offers as a result.
SuperMatt
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Carlson isn’t live, right????
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They wouldn't need to do it during his show, any live broadcast on Fox would do.
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Here comes China...
www.cnn.com
China has expressed some openness to providing military and financial aid to Russia, US cable suggests
The US has information suggesting China has expressed some openness to providing Russia with requested military and financial assistance as part of its war on Ukraine, a Western official and a US diplomat told CNN, and is conveying what it knows to its NATO allies.
www.cnn.com
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This is getting ugly and it’s so unnecessary. Some of the stuff coming from the Trump-wing of the GOP would have been pretty unthinkable before Trump came along. These folks are in this until the end, nothing has stopped them yet, even commie Russia invading a democratic nation violently.
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