Russia-Ukraine

[AG_PhamD]

By the way, if anyone here wants to donate to humanitarian relief in Ukraine, consider buying some merch from here (I am not affiliated in any way, I just like the designs and the people): https://www.saintjavelin.com

I have to admit that is quite humorous. Someone should make a shirt that says “I found the NLAW and the NLAW won”.

As with any charity I would just do some research to make sure you know where the money is going.

I donated to Americares which I’m well aquatinted with- they provide medical supplies. I’ve already donated a trunk load of medical supplies I’ve collected to a local Ukrainian-American owned business who is working with some charities, the Ukrainian church, and a Ukrainian-American owned logistics company to hopefully get supplies where they need to go.

The hospital network I work for has also be providing medical assistance to doctors in Ukraine via phone and video chat. Most doctors aren’t proficient in handling battle wounds so having real time access to clinical knowledge is great. I thought that was a pretty clever idea.

 

[AG_PhamD]

For countless reasons we'd probably be a lot better off shifting our Saudi oil needs to Venezuela, but we kind of stepped on a rake with that relationship.

Well, Venezuela is it’s own corrupt and abusing dictatorship. It don’t feel particularly comfortable handing money over to a regime that in recent times has been collaborating with Russia to become the next Cuba. It wasn’t long ago Venezuela was housing Russian nuclear-capable bombers for “exercises”.

I’ve always found our relationship with Saudi Arabia quite bizarre. I suppose it’s one of convenience and necessity to an extent- the less of evils.

I think it’s best to deal as little with these countries as possible.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Big Russian ship go boom boom

​

It is believed it was a troop carrier loading up to go help out the attack on Mariupol.

I'll just say now that when our support for Ukraine goes sideways in a couple decades, when their sleeper cells enter the US they'll be taking down a lot more than a couple buildings.

Of course that's an absurd thought, to believe there will be any buildings left to take down after several decades of Trumpism.

 

[Macky-Mac]

For countless reasons we'd probably be a lot better off shifting our Saudi oil needs to Venezuela, but we kind of stepped on a rake with that relationship.

Venezuela would be a bad choice even if you'd prefer to continue to get oil from a corrupt authoritarian regime.......but perhaps you could choose a criminal regime that can also keep their oil industry away from the brink of collapse? Seriously, you pay for oil, you want to get the amount of oil what you paid for....right?


Just ask the Chinese how Venezuela has done as far as actually delivering on their contracts

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Well, Venezuela is it’s own corrupt and abusing dictatorship. It don’t feel particularly comfortable handing money over to a regime that in recent times has been collaborating with Russia to become the next Cuba. It wasn’t long ago Venezuela was housing Russian nuclear-capable bombers for “exercises”.

I’ve always found our relationship with Saudi Arabia quite bizarre. I suppose it’s one of convenience and necessity to an extent- the less of evils.

I think it’s best to deal as little with these countries as possible.

I know Venezuela has a lot of problems but I'm not going to buy the western narrative that any socialist country is 90% fucked up and more corrupt. As far as their Russian connection past (or even present?), it's not like the west was their biggest world power supporter until just a few years ago. Of course Chavez was a big part of that. I'm pretty ignorant on the finer details, but using history as indicator pretty much any country that doesn't put the US dollar above God or their own self interests interestingly needs to be "liberated". Every one of them. There are 3 things you can count on in life. Death, taxes, and all anti-dollar countries need to receive our freedom bombs.

You know who makes the perfect poster boy for extreme capitalism taken to it's worst outcome? Putin.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Venezuela would be a bad choice even if you'd prefer to continue to get oil from a corrupt authoritarian regime.......but perhaps you could choose a criminal regime that can also keep their oil industry away from the brink of collapse? Seriously, you pay for oil, you want to get the amount of oil what you paid for....right?


Just ask the Chinese how Venezuela has done as far as actually delivering on their contracts

I admit I don't really know about delivering on their commitments. I just don't think they would be anywhere near the cash drunk assholes that the Saudis are and use their privileged status to fuck with other countries. It's like they are the arrogant trust fund bullies of the region going everywhere with their knuckle dragging big brother the US yelling "Me smash!" in the background of every interaction.

 

[Yoused]

I'll just say now that when our support for Ukraine goes sideways in a couple decades, when their sleeper cells enter the US they'll be taking down a lot more than a couple buildings.

This is the inverse, though. ObL got pissed off at seeing dirty infidel boots on sacred Saudi soil (even 600 miles from the grand mosque, if it inside KSA, no non-muslim may set foot there). In this case, the US is not sending Americans there to fight. Yet, anyway.

 

[AG_PhamD]

The barbaric and intentional levels of Putin's cruelty towards civilians --aside from stupidities and errors-- makes one tend to question even any conventional arrangements Putin or his generals may offer on the way to eventual negotiations for an end to open conflict.

For example, I read today in the Boston Globe that a Russian general has arranged for a humanitarian corridor for ships that have been trapped in Ukrainian ports to leave there, gather offshore at a designated area in the Black Sea, and then follow a specified path out of the conflict zone, starting Friday.



First thing into my mind was... yeah... and then he blows them up? I really do dislike being so cynical, but Putin's war on Ukraine is bringing that out in me for sure. I have to work hard to accord them humanity when they so egregiously demonstrate willingness to ignore humanity of Ukrainian civilians during this aggression.

I can’t imagine anyone is going to take that offer. As it is Russia has not held up past humanitarian corridors, at least reportedly. I guess the question is do these boats get to sail east to eastern Ukraine or other free countries? Or will these civilians be directed to Russian “filtration camps”?

It would make sense however to get as many civilians out as possible. It makes conquering the city easier from the perspective of not having to explain thousands of dead civilians or having to fight them if they don’t surrender.

On the other hand, who is sailing in these waters? I’m pretty sure it’s filled with mines. Perhaps this is just a ploy to make it appear they are offering humanity when it’s not a realistic offer.

There is absolutely no reason I see to trust the Russians at this point. Maybe this General is trying to do the humane thing, but who knows.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I admit I don't really know about delivering on their commitments. I just don't think they would be anywhere near the cash drunk assholes that the Saudis are and use their privileged status to fuck with other countries. It's like they are the arrogant trust fund bullies of the region going everywhere with their knuckle dragging big brother the US yelling "Me smash!" in the background of every interaction.

Well, from a human rights perspective Venezuela if not just as bad, is probably worse than the Saudis.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

This is the inverse, though. ObL got pissed off at seeing dirty infidel boots on sacred Saudi soil (even 600 miles from the grand mosque, if it inside KSA, no non-muslim may set foot there). In this case, the US is not sending Americans there to fight. Yet, anyway.

I still don't like us. We are long overdue to have our asses handed to us to gain some humility and perspective. I would be honored to have it happen at the hands of these brave Ukrainians.

 

[AG_PhamD]

It's an interesting split in the Republican party on this, who are normally hawks when it comes to this sort of policy, particularly when it includes Russia. But the radicals are so fixated with Putin that they're actually backing him, mostly the same people who supported January 6. Reagan is probably rolling over in his grave over this.

However, many also seem to be aligned against Russia so we can't pin on all of them. I like that Biden is cautious in his approach but don't like that everyone walks on eggshells to placate Putin when he's going out of his way to murder women, children and the sick.

Yeah, this doesn’t make much sense to me. The same right wing voices condemning the heinously executed withdrawal of Biden because of the potential future security risks from the Taliban and that we for the sake of our safety and standing on the world stage we cannot be isolationist. Then when it comes to Russia-Ukraine it’s a totally different story. We shouldn’t be involved at all.

It’s not like this war doesn’t have implications for the US directly. If Russia was allowed to sweep the floor Ukraine, Taiwan would be next, and then possibly other Eastern European states prompting a NATO response. And even if the latter never happened (or we allowed Russia to take those countries), do we really want to deal with an unchecked China-Russia alliance? Because the right (I believe rightfully) has an awful lot of concern about China taking over the world.

 

[Yoused]

I can’t imagine anyone is going to take that offer. As it is Russia has not held up past humanitarian corridors, at least reportedly. I guess the question is do these boats get to sail east to eastern Ukraine or other free countries? Or will these civilians be directed to Russian “filtration camps”?

It would make sense however to get as many civilians out as possible. It makes conquering the city easier from the perspective of not having to explain thousands of dead civilians or having to fight them if they don’t surrender.

It is not about ferrying Ukrainians out of the country. As we live in an age of global commerce, the ships in question are traders from other countries that got caught in the crossfire, and the Russians would rather just kill Ukrainians with abandon, but blowing up, say, a Maersk could further escalate international tensions in very bad ways. To call it "humanitarian" is in a way the exact opposite of what it means, because getting them out of the way just clears the road for more, greater violence.

 

[AG_PhamD]

It is not about ferrying Ukrainians out of the country. As we live in an age of global commerce, the ships in question are traders from other countries that got caught in the crossfire, and the Russians would rather just kill Ukrainians with abandon, but blowing up, say, a Maersk could further escalate international tensions in very bad ways. To call it "humanitarian" is in a way the exact opposite of what it means, because getting them out of the way just clears the road for more, greater violence.

Ahh okay. I would suspect the only ships that would even remotely consider that offer would be Ukrainian ships. No company, let alone insurer, is going to risk millions of dollars of ship and product.

I would suspect the more likely outcome than the Russian navy blowing up the ships is seizing them and then trying using them as leverage.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Great talking points for the assembly floor but do they have any unobtainium? Because without that America really couldn't give a shit and that's what you'll see with minor hand slapping and strong words of condemnation by the president as Russia takes them over.

I would say we’ve been leading from behind and everything is reactionary. It seems we will give just about the bare minimum to keep the Ukrainians going. I understand playing it safe early on, when Ukraine was expected to fold in days. But we’re a month in now and it’s apparent the Russians would struggle to defeat a paper tiger.

Putin doesn’t want a war with NATO. Give the Ukrainians all the tools they need and let them exploit Putin’s army’s disorganization while the chance exists.

This also came out today:

US, allies working to provide anti-ship missiles to Ukraine

The U.S. and allies are working to send anti-ship missiles to Ukraine as it scrambles to bolster up Kyiv’s ability to defend itself against Russia’s invasion.“We have started consulting with Allies…

thehill.com

Apparently anti-ship missiles are in the works, which is great news and about time. A lot of the cruise missiles hitting cities are being launched from ships in the Black Sea.

I’m sure everyone has heard that the Ukrainians destroyed a docked Russian supply ship. What’s interesting about this is that it was allegedly a Luna M ballistic missile, which is 1960’s technology and have a 400 meter margin of error. The ship hit was about 110m long. Maybe upgrades have been made to their missiles, but that is nonetheless an impressive hit.

But a ballistic missile only worked because the ship was docked, which is why they need to get anti-ship missiles.

It’s my understanding Turkey has closed access to the Black Sea, so whatever ships Russia has there is what they have. Unless they want a war with Turkey.

 

[Zoidberg]

I know Venezuela has a lot of problems but I'm not going to buy the western narrative that any socialist country is 90% fucked up and more corrupt. As far as their Russian connection past (or even present?), it's not like the west was their biggest world power supporter until just a few years ago. Of course Chavez was a big part of that. I'm pretty ignorant on the finer details, but using history as indicator pretty much any country that doesn't put the US dollar above God or their own self interests interestingly needs to be "liberated". Every one of them. There are 3 things you can count on in life. Death, taxes, and all anti-dollar countries need to receive our freedom bombs.

You know who makes the perfect poster boy for extreme capitalism taken to it's worst outcome? Putin.

Venezuela is not a socialist country though. I’ve worked there and it’s awfully corrupt. It’s not rabidly agressive like Russia or a medieval monarchy like SA, but to call them socialists (in the modern Western sense) is wrong. The government’s main and only goal is to enrich their own oligarchs, and send their money abroad. They are letting their country fall into disrepair because they are too busy raiding it.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Exclusive: Ukraine’s Defense Intelligence Chief Warns of “Real Hell” for Russians

Brig. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov’s warning that Russia was about to invade his country was widely dismissed—until the war began. So his latest predictions about the course of what is turning out to be a surprisingly long war are probably worth taking more seriously.

www.thenation.com

He’s only 36. These people are like modern day Spartans.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Venezuela is not a socialist country though. I’ve worked there and it’s awfully corrupt. It’s not rabidly agressive like Russia or a medieval monarchy like SA, but to call them socialists (in the modern Western sense) is wrong. The government’s main and only goal is to enrich their own oligarchs, and send their money abroad. They are letting their country fall into disrepair because they are too busy raiding it.

Interesting. In this case I thought they proudly called themselves socialist as opposed to the west labeling them that a la our socialist President Biden.

The US gets raided by Wall St, but hey, since you can also get 0.00000234% of that wealth gain I guess we're a lot better.

 

[Nycturne]

Interesting. In this case I thought they proudly called themselves socialist as opposed to the west labeling them that a la our socialist President Biden.

The US gets raided by Wall St, but hey, since you can also get 0.00000234% of that wealth gain I guess we're a lot better.

The key thing to think of in my mind is the two questions of: what does the state control, and who controls the state?

The philosophy of communism is that the people are the state, along with the state being in control of industry. Socialism originating as the idea of a transitional state towards communism talks about community control of industry. When the power gets invested in an authoritarian, or an oligarchy, it’s not really community control anymore. Thus an argument that it’s not really socialism or communism anymore, but rather an authoritarian perversion of it. Much like the Nazi party called themselves a socialist party, despite not only being an authortarian party rather than a communal one, pledging to the industrialists to purge communists from government to get financial backing when they needed it, and continuing to enrich those same industrialists under their regime while keeping them private entities.

The label itself is less useful than the actual organization and operation of the state.

As for Putin being capitalism taken to an extreme, I’m not sure I buy it. A corporatocracy like the US will want to keep the state deferential to the oligarchs to avoid having to become deferential to the state, which is the opposite of what Putin has done. It is much closer to China which has enriched oligarchs via the party that is in charge of the state, for the interests of the party (or Putin in his case).

Note I’m not trying to say Russia is communist, but rather that they are both authoritarian in nature. Ones where oligarchs are deferential to the authoritarian(s) in control of the state, state owned industry or no.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The key thing to think of in my mind is the two questions of: what does the state control, and who controls the state?

The philosophy of communism is that the people are the state, along with the state being in control of industry. Socialism originating as the idea of a transitional state towards communism talks about community control of industry. When the power gets invested in an authoritarian, or an oligarchy, it’s not really community control anymore. Thus an argument that it’s not really socialism or communism anymore, but rather an authoritarian perversion of it. Much like the Nazi party called themselves a socialist party, despite not only being an authortarian party rather than a communal one, pledging to the industrialists to purge communists from government to get financial backing when they needed it, and continuing to enrich those same industrialists under their regime while keeping them private entities.

The label itself is less useful than the actual organization and operation of the state.

As for Putin being capitalism taken to an extreme, I’m not sure I buy it. A corporatocracy like the US will want to keep the state deferential to the oligarchs to avoid having to become deferential to the state, which is the opposite of what Putin has done. It is much closer to China which has enriched oligarchs via the party that is in charge of the state, for the interests of the party (or Putin in his case).

Note I’m not trying to say Russia is communist, but rather that they are both authoritarian in nature. Ones where oligarchs are deferential to the authoritarian(s) in control of the state, state owned industry or no.

So on the “pure” scale the countries widely known as socialist or communist are nowhere near the actual definition and to distort things further the detractors of those systems are constantly pointing out their failings as being a part of a system that they don’t fit the definition of.

 

[Yoused]

"A lieutenant general commanding the 49th Combined Arms Army has also died in the fighting - the seventh to perish in the war. … " and meanwhile, "of Colonel Medvedev: 'He was killed by his own troops we believe as a consequence of the scale of losses that had been taken by his brigade,' they added. 'That gives an insight into some of the morale challenges the Russian forces are having.' … the colonel appeared to have been run down using a tank. 'We believe he was killed by his own troops deliberately.' …"