The 2022 Midterms

[Yoused]

Do we really want to get into dictionary definitions? Because if we do, here is one for you:

Does that really fit some of you here?

Some of us here do not actually call ourselves liberals. Many of us prefer to not have labels applied to us (they are sticky and pull hair out) – "liberal" is a label more often used by White-Wing-types to try to malign people that hold different and challenging opinions.

In fact, outside the US, "liberal" typically has the opposite meaning (closer to glibertarian). I know if I lived in Canada, the Lib-Dems would not be my party of choice most of the time.

 

[lizkat]

I for one don't get the anti-Semitic stuff. But then again I am not a religious person so I really don't care who or what your worship. I don't know if the GOP or Dems are any better or worse, but I do know that two very anti-Semitic people in Congress are Dems and the GOP is generally more friendly to Israel.

Not sure if you are referring to two Muslim members of Congress, who are not pro-Israel but who are also not anti-Semitic. They happen not to think Israeli treatment of Palestinians is acceptable, and they do not buy into the "yeah but whaddabout..." from those who unconditionally support Israelis no matter whether all Palestinians are being made to pay for the indefensible behavior of some. Same of course goes for anyone on the flip side blaming Palestinians for indiscriminate injury to Israelis. In either case, it's not about religion, it's about geopolitical concerns.

There's a lot of "flex" in both practice and belief that "the GOP is generally more friendly to Israel".

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Some fundamentally inclined Christians believe it is necessary during the times in which we now live to protect existence of Jews in Israel, so that the Scriptures in which they believe will bear out true in their prophesy of "the Rapture."​

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However, some other Christians believe that Israel was created by divine providence and that it is a holy land in which Jews and Christians alike have sprung from the same tribe. Some of those believers in the USA are not necessarily Republicans.​

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Bottom line though, the Abrahamic religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity) all do associate that part of the MIddle East as the homeland of the one God they call by different names. In at least urban areas of the USA, one can usually find clerics in all three of those religions who will agree that their prophets foretold of the one true God and that the lineage of those prophets does go back to Abraham.​

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Where it gets complicated --and often ends up with people hurling charges at each other about being biased-- is sorting out Israeli and Palestinian politics, and what exactly are the geopolitical entities variously thought of as Israel or Palestine or "Israel and Palestine" or "the West Bank and Gaza and part of Israel and sometimes Jordan." Jordan so far shrugs and builds more tents for refugees from Iraq or Syria... and probably recites the lamentations of Jeremiah from time to time in the darkness of night. Yes, Jeremiah was regarded as a prophet by Islam too.

These issues of "the holy land" today are largely secular issues, not religious ones, and yet there is a large contingent of both observant Jews, Christians and Muslims who continue to frame it all in terms of their own religious beliefs, i.e., efforts to conform interpretations of today's realities to both history and prophesy of ancient scriptures.

Yeah, so... that's not too complicated for a country like the USA, lately well and truly mired in thinking everything can be sorted down to one or the other of a binary, of a pair of options, eh?

Still we insist on ability to know for sure who's being anti-Semitic and who's talking about secular politics. We also continue to burden ourselves with old-world tropes about characteristics of Jews, and post-9/11 tropes about characteristics of Muslims. The tropes about Christians --running the range from amused to outraged, e.g. from "angels and demons, gee" to ancestral memories of the Inquisition or burning at the stake in Tudor England-- are usually muttered under breath... since for all the complaining by some white evangelicals, Christianity is still the dominant religion in the USA. The adherents to other religions still have a corner of the soul that fears its place in a country with a First Amendment that guarantees freedom of worship but lately whines about "being replaced" when it has been and still remains dominant.

It's easy to blame any or all "religions" for this mess. More factually, we don't like admitting that the insisted upon differences are still largely down to racialized or nationalistic politics... yeah, tribes, and turf. What else is new under the sun since -- if one is scripturally inclined-- Adam and Eve met the snake and doubt was introduced to the Garden of Eden.

 

[Herdfan]

Not sure if you are referring to two Muslim members of Congress, who are not pro-Israel but who are also not anti-Semitic.

Yeah, because Pelosi publically rebuked Omar for nothing:

Ilhan Omar apologizes after Pelosi denounces tweet as anti-Semitic

Democrats moved quickly after the freshman lawmaker suggested support for Israel stemmed from campaign donations.

www.politico.com

And then there's Tlaib:

Former DNC Chair Schultz Calls Democrat Tlaib 'Antisemitic' Over Remarks On Israel

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) accused Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) of making antisemetic comments during a pro-Palestine event this week.

www.forbes.com

 

[Alli]

The problem comes from those people who act like Jews in the diaspora (including American Jews) and Israelis are the same. Yet they don’t do that with American Catholics and Roman Catholics anymore. Maybe in another 50 years they’ll understand that the Jews who feel that strongly about Israel have made aliya and are living there, as opposed to most of the rest of us who like the freedoms of the US and don’t really care about Israel and are happy being assimilated.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

California mails an official ballot (with a postage-free return envelope) to every REGISTERED voter a few weeks before the election. You can also drop your ballot off at a variety of official drop-off locations.

That ensures high voter participation - as it should be. The system works very well. And it's easy for people who might be traveling, sick/disabled, or having a work schedule that would otherwise make it difficult to vote.

But a minority party can’t win under those conditions. The right has convinced itself that when a minority party gets a minority of votes it’s an unfair or “rigged” system.

 

[Citysnaps]

But a minority party can’t win under those conditions. The right has convinced itself that when a minority party gets a minority of votes it’s an unfair or “rigged” system.

And they can never explain how such a system (like California's) can be systematically rigged to make any difference in the final result.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And they can never explain how such a system (like California's) can be systematically rigged to make any difference in the final result.

They shouldn’t be completely discouraged by individual voter reality. The Senate, Supreme Court, and electoral college were all set up, dare I say “rigged”, for minority rule (read: wealthy white landowners)

 

[Edd]

I’m getting pretty wound up about these elections. My state‘s senate and house races have Dem incumbents running against a couple of fucking freak shows. I think we’ve got this but I am pestering my friends to vote or I’ll throw a fit.

 

[Huntn]

Do we really want to get into dictionary definitions? Because if we do, here is one for you:

View attachment 18636

Does that really fit some of you here? Nope. Actually fits me better than many of you. Between here and MR, I do not remember calling anyone names, accusing them of wanting to kill other members or belittling them. Yet it happens to me here all the time. Doesn't sound like you respect or accept different opinions at all?

I don't react back for two reasons, one I don't care. Caring about this is not who I am as a person nor do I want to be the person that acts like some of you act towards me. Second, @Eric has provided us a place to hang, free of charge. So I am not going to disrespect him by forcing him to moderate what should be a room full of adults.

Do we disagree on some things. Sure. But we all need to be adults about it, but sadly some of us aren't. And that is about the limit of the shade I am willing to throw.

Dictionaries do serve a very import purpose, they define terms for people. When you say you’d pick fascism over socialism it makes me think either you don’t know the recent (within 100 years) history of fascism, you were being sarcastic or trolling, or you are not as good of a person as I previously imagined you to be.

There is no way that you could be a believer in the standards as laid out by our Founding Fathers for the United States of America and say you would prefer fascism (inherently violent and oppressive) over socialism (spreading the wealth, communal support) and not have a significant number of participants in this forum be critical of this position.

And btw, no one is advocating full blown socialism, but we already have socialistic polices in place and as Capitalism fails us, we will either become more socialistic or have a civil war on our hands.

Just wait until the Republicans try to destroy the meager Social Security System, and Medicare, which the first is a nice supplement, no one could live on comfortably by itself, and the second is vital for as a means for average citizens to have a chance at affording medical bills in this country.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I watched the Fetterman/Oz debate and wow. I have to admit, it was tough watching Fetterman stumble and stutter through all of his answers. I get the feeling he's there mentally, but this is politics, and while sitting in a chair in an office pondering what to vote on, how to vote, what legislation to introduce may be no issue for him, I would absolutely raise concerns if it was Oz doing the same thing. I understand he's coming off of a stroke, and he seems to be aware of his limitations too, which is why it took so long to get to this debate.

But its telling that even with that performance, the big news from the debate is Oz's bizarre comment that reproductive health of women should be decided between a woman, her doctor and local politicians? The Fetterman team was probably rejoicing when he made that statement, because that took all the wind out of Oz's otherwise ok performance. That WAS the line of the night, for all the wrong reasons. I don't think that was a planned statement, and I imagine some of his campaign staff cringed the moment he said that. In fact, that may be the gaffe of his entire campaign.

Fetterman still has an ok lead in the polls, but polls are finicky, especially in such a true swing state like PA. I'll be surprised if they let a celebrity carpetbagger like Oz who's only connection to Pennsylvania is wanting to pick up an open senate seat represent them in Washington, but then again republicans aren't the most rational of voters as of late, it seems.

So while I am definitely understanding of concerns around Fetterman's health from those who are sincere about it, I don't want to hear it from those who use a stupid Biden gaffe as "proof" of his so-called dementia, or those who cheer Trump on (who, by the way, seems to be getting worse by the month as well. Trump flubs every bit as much as Fetterman, he just doesn't ever stop to think about what's coming out of his mouth, so he just keeps talking.)

"Democrats are destroying our constipation and LOOK.... our CONSTITUTION, its very important! They want to ruin the constitution!"

That's a Trump classic - mispronounce or flub something, then quickly interrupt your own speech and repeat what you meant to say as an aside. He does that about a dozen times a cult rally.

 

[Roller]

That's a Trump classic - mispronounce or flub something, then quickly interrupt your own speech and repeat what you meant to say as an aside. He does that about a dozen times a cult rally.

Or, to be more precise, try to make it seem that your miscue and its correction were both accurate. The one I recall most vividly happened during a State of the Union address, when Trump pointed out a Homeland Security employee who, he claimed, went by CJ or DJ.

I think this is yet another example of Trump never wanting to admit being wrong or losing, whether it’s a verbal error or an election. He’s incapable, which is an extremely dangerous trait in someone with so much power.

 

[Herdfan]

When you say you’d pick fascism over socialism it makes me think either you don’t know the recent

See, I never said I would pick fascism over socialism. You all have been calling everyone right of center a fascist for so long it has lost all meaning.

When I posted that it (fascism) beats socialism it was in jest. Here is what transpired.

I have to think it will be DeSantis. Pair him with Kari Lake and watch out. The media won't know what hit them.

To which this response was posted:

You sound excited for fascism.

And my response was:

Beats socialism.

From that point it went off the rails. My point is if I can be labeled a fascist for liking a certain politician, then it's fair game to label others socialist for who they vote for. But see, it doesn't mean I like fascism anymore that it means you or anyone else likes socialism.

But I am up for examples of exactly what fascists things DeSantis has actually done. Or Lake, but since she hasn't ever been elected, I doubt there is much. I want them to run simply to watch the media's head's explode as both are savage and well prepared.

 

[Herdfan]

I watched the Fetterman/Oz debate and wow. I have to admit, it was tough watching Fetterman stumble and stutter through all of his answers. I get the feeling he's there mentally, but this is politics, and while sitting in a chair in an office pondering what to vote on, how to vote, what legislation to introduce may be no issue for him, I would absolutely raise concerns if it was Oz doing the same thing. I understand he's coming off of a stroke, and he seems to be aware of his limitations too, which is why it took so long to get to this debate.

On some level I agree with you. He may very well be all there mentally. But I also think for him to be able to process it takes a bit more time than someone who isn't recovering from a stroke. He also needs it to be presented in a certain way. But that is a detriment in the job he is looking to hold. The party should have replaced him.

 

[Edd]

See, I never said I would pick fascism over socialism. You all have been calling everyone right of center a fascist for so long it has lost all meaning.

When I posted that it (fascism) beats socialism it was in jest. Here is what transpired.



To which this response was posted:



And my response was:



From that point it went off the rails. My point is if I can be labeled a fascist for liking a certain politician, then it's fair game to label others socialist for who they vote for. But see, it doesn't mean I like fascism anymore that it means you or anyone else likes socialism.

But I am up for examples of exactly what fascists things DeSantis has actually done. Or Lake, but since she hasn't ever been elected, I doubt there is much. I want them to run simply to watch the media's head's explode as both are savage and well prepared.

I’m not expert on DeSantis but his spat with Disney caught my eye when it happened.

DeSantis vs. Disney: A timeline

The two main timeline stamps for the feud between Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida and The Walt Disney Company.

www.deseret.com

Within a month of Disney publicly disagreeing with his Don’t Say Gay crap, he conveniently became very interested in their tax status, to their potential detriment. That’s what a fascist would do, to be sure.

 

[Herdfan]

I’m not expert on DeSantis but his spat with Disney caught my eye when it happened.

DeSantis vs. Disney: A timeline

The two main timeline stamps for the feud between Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida and The Walt Disney Company.

www.deseret.com

Within a month of Disney publicly disagreeing with his Don’t Say Gay crap, he conveniently became very interested in their tax status, to their potential detriment. That’s what a fascist would do, to be sure.

Maybe. But by definition to be a fascist, you are a dictator. The law to pulled back their special status was passed by the FL Legislature. Which is exactly the opposite of fascism.

Florida Senate passes bill to strip Disney's special self-governing status

The Florida House still has to vote on the measure, which would dissolve the special taxing district that allows Disney to operate much like a local government.

www.nbcnews.com

Florida House passes bill to dissolve Disney’s special self-governing status

The legislation now goes to the desk of Gov. Ron DeSantis, who called on the Legislature to back the measure during its special session this week.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Edd]

Maybe. But by definition to be a fascist, you are a dictator. The law to pulled back their special status was passed by the FL Legislature. Which is exactly the opposite of fascism.

Florida Senate passes bill to strip Disney's special self-governing status

The Florida House still has to vote on the measure, which would dissolve the special taxing district that allows Disney to operate much like a local government.

www.nbcnews.com

Florida House passes bill to dissolve Disney’s special self-governing status

The legislation now goes to the desk of Gov. Ron DeSantis, who called on the Legislature to back the measure during its special session this week.

www.nbcnews.com

Oh Jesus, does the timing ring any alarm bells for you?

 

[lizkat]

Yeah, because Pelosi publically rebuked Omar for nothing:

Ilhan Omar apologizes after Pelosi denounces tweet as anti-Semitic

Democrats moved quickly after the freshman lawmaker suggested support for Israel stemmed from campaign donations.

www.politico.com

And then there's Tlaib:

Former DNC Chair Schultz Calls Democrat Tlaib 'Antisemitic' Over Remarks On Israel

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) accused Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) of making antisemetic comments during a pro-Palestine event this week.

www.forbes.com

Well for my money as a bystander (albeit with relatives in Israel, whose elders live here and all of whom have American citizenship), I'll just say this and otherwise would refer back to my longer post to which you replied, i.e. a lot of what gets asserted (or, interpreted) in the name of religion is actually more about geopolitics, and so yeah, about control of real and political turf and so also about money.

It looks to me like both Pelosi and Wasserman-Schulz in the instances you cited had actual and prospective donor money on their minds, not least but foremost because it's in both of THEIR JOBS to put the viability of their political party at top of the workaday menu.

It's not THEIR place to decide whether it's religion or geopolitics or "desire for access" that is motivating any donors to Democratic Party politics. It is their place though to chastise House members who make remarks that could be interpreted as group slurs. That interpretation may have been on the mark in the instances you cited, even if the two younger pols were definitely and more consciously voicing pro-Palestinian concerns about the sometimes unjust but official behavior of the Israeli government.

Pols like Tlaib and Omar are elected officials who are valuable to their party as well as to their specific constituents. They are Democrats. They are likely to get schooled by Democratic Party leaders like any other pol in the Democratic Party who speaks ill advisedly of any other group of people in a big tent political party.

It's up to them to consider the fact --yeah, the fact-- that even if they are speaking to geopolitical concerns in the Middle East, even if speaking to injustice, that what they say may well be interpreted as anti-Semitic if they are not careful, and deservedly so if they use language that is or is reminiscent of slurs or negative tropes.

Politicians who cannot learn to tailor their remarks to the audience or prospective audience at hand are likely to have to find other day jobs. These days (and not to say there aren't a lot of reckless pols, since there are), just about all politicians and plenty other public figures have to realize that using social media means their potential audience is global.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I watched the Fetterman/Oz debate and wow. I have to admit, it was tough watching Fetterman stumble and stutter through all of his answers. I get the feeling he's there mentally, but this is politics, and while sitting in a chair in an office pondering what to vote on, how to vote, what legislation to introduce may be no issue for him, I would absolutely raise concerns if it was Oz doing the same thing. I understand he's coming off of a stroke, and he seems to be aware of his limitations too, which is why it took so long to get to this debate.

But its telling that even with that performance, the big news from the debate is Oz's bizarre comment that reproductive health of women should be decided between a woman, her doctor and local politicians? The Fetterman team was probably rejoicing when he made that statement, because that took all the wind out of Oz's otherwise ok performance. That WAS the line of the night, for all the wrong reasons. I don't think that was a planned statement, and I imagine some of his campaign staff cringed the moment he said that. In fact, that may be the gaffe of his entire campaign.

Fetterman still has an ok lead in the polls, but polls are finicky, especially in such a true swing state like PA. I'll be surprised if they let a celebrity carpetbagger like Oz who's only connection to Pennsylvania is wanting to pick up an open senate seat represent them in Washington, but then again republicans aren't the most rational of voters as of late, it seems.

So while I am definitely understanding of concerns around Fetterman's health from those who are sincere about it, I don't want to hear it from those who use a stupid Biden gaffe as "proof" of his so-called dementia, or those who cheer Trump on (who, by the way, seems to be getting worse by the month as well. Trump flubs every bit as much as Fetterman, he just doesn't ever stop to think about what's coming out of his mouth, so he just keeps talking.)

"Democrats are destroying our constipation and LOOK.... our CONSTITUTION, its very important! They want to ruin the constitution!"

That's a Trump classic - mispronounce or flub something, then quickly interrupt your own speech and repeat what you meant to say as an aside. He does that about a dozen times a cult rally.

I understand health concerns, but I’d really like to know what potential voters think Fetterman is specifically going to do as the result of having a stroke. Republicans are running extremist rubber stamps with a pulse and (results pending) that doesn’t seem to be much of a concern.

 

[Renzatic]

Maybe. But by definition to be a fascist, you are a dictator. The law to pulled back their special status was passed by the FL Legislature. Which is exactly the opposite of fascism.

You could see that using legislative powers to punish those who dare disagree with the will of the current head of state cuts dangerously close to some sorta 'ism, right?

 

[Herdfan]

Oh Jesus, does the timing ring any alarm bells for you?

Sure. He was pissed at them. I get that. But he went through the proper channels and either or both the FL House or Senate could have said No. He did not do it by himself.