The 2022 Midterms

As for fair elections, I am old enough to remember Election day being a big deal. I went with my grandmother to vote and we entered the booth and she pulled all the levers. But it was an occasion. Schools were out and people took it seriously. And everything was fine. Now we can't seem to give people enough ways to vote, but if you dare question any of these new methods, you are labeled an election denier when all you want is to make sure the elections are fair.
Wow! How many new ways are there? Sounds like I’ve missed several. Could you provide some examples for an interested foreigner?

Out of curiosity, which new method(s) did you get labeled an election denier for questioning? What reasonable concerns did you have that were ignored?

Are you equally concerned about other aspects of fair elections, such as fair access to polling stations, fair voter registration, freedom from intimidation, etc.?

I am sorry if I can't imagine a reason that one person should be dropping off 20 ballots while wearing rubber gloves. I think voting is a right, but one that comes with some level of work. If it means that much to you, then you should be willing to at the very least be slightly inconvenienced.
Rubber gloves could be explained by that pesky little pandemic, you probably have heard of it. I tried googling dropping off 20 ballots while wearing rubber gloves but only got hits for 2000 Mules so you’ll have to provide more information about that incident.

Regarding voting requiring “some level of work” and voters “should be willing to at the very least be slightly inconvenienced“, how do you picture that in the context of fair elections? Is it fine to burden certain groups of voters with more work? Inconveniencing them more?
 
Sweden (and other Scandanavian countries) have not gone as far with Socialism where the government controls most means of production. So people can own businesses and gain wealth.
I think you may have confused socialism and communism. It’s a common mistake.
 
It will definitely be interesting to see what happens in the mid-terms. It seems pretty inevitable they will take the house but the republican’s prospects appear to be improving in the senate where it now appears to be a 50/50 tossup.

As a moderate and an independent, I’m very disappointed with the current political environment of our county and the amount of division that exists. Politics these days seems almost entirely about attacking the opposite party than actually providing solutions.

As for 2024 I think the republicans would be incredibly stupid to run Trump. It’s looking more and more possible that he won’t be eligible either. Desantis presents as a far more “professional” candidate but policy wise I think he much further right than Trump. And I think the Dems need to find a replacement for Biden-Harris for 2024 because I don’t see them having a particularly good chance of winning.

The Left seems to be basing much of their campaigning around Jan 6th, which I’m not convinced will be a successful tactic. When it comes to a lot of the problems average Americans are facing I don’t feel the left is taking them that seriously- in some cases they seemingly ignore problems even exist.

The Right I think has a better strategy talking about things like inflation, the economy, gas prices, crime, etc which are relatable problems… the problem is I don’t actually see them offering solutions. Just like how they said they would “repeal and replace Obamacare”, however never actually came up with a replacement, at least one anyone actually wanted and would vote for. The only thing that seems clear the right wants to take action on are niche culture war issues that in reality are of little concern to the average American compared to things like the economy, healthcare, education, etc.

Idk, the way I see it this two party system isn’t working for us on a practical level or on a social level. And things only seem to be getting worse. I recognize that the US has diverse political ideology and therefore it’s not healthy for one party (R or D) to control all branches of government. 2024 could potentially have the republicans controlling the house, senate, presidency and (for all intents and purposes) the Supreme Court. That’s not a good situation in my book.
 
One preacher elicits prayers that "their computers stop working until after the election"

 
Yes, we are in the pot being brought to a slow boil. Just like the frog.

I for one don't get the anti-Semitic stuff. But then again I am not a religious person so I really don't care who or what your worship. I don't know if the GOP or Dems are any better or worse, but I do know that two very anti-Semitic people in Congress are Dems and the GOP is generally more friendly to Israel.
Anti-Semitism has little to do with religious practice. To the extent it does, it's largely an excuse to vilify a group when people need someone to blame when they perceive their way of life is threatened or they want to divert attention from their own failings and responsibilities. That's how it's been for many centuries. I strongly recommend watching The U.S. and the Holocaust on PBS for a close look at what happened with Naziism in Germany.

You're making the mistake of assuming all Jewish American citizens gauge the worth of politicians based on their attitudes toward Israel. Yes, for some that's the primary litmus test, but many Jews in this country take a much broader view. While we appreciate the support, we don't blindly go along with the Israeli government's policies and actions. Personally, I'd strongly favor a candidate who believes in a democratic, pluralistic U.S. society over one who is anti-democratic, even if only the latter is willing to provide everything Israel requests without question.
 
Did you see the reports on the fuckwits hanging around near the voting dropbox in Mesa, AZ? Filming people's tags, etc., their own faces covered up, a couple had weapons.

Not sure if it was that particular drop box, but yeah, I was thinking about a situation reported just like that. Some crazy shit.
 
I for one don't get the anti-Semitic stuff. But then again I am not a religious person so I really don't care who or what your worship. I don't know if the GOP or Dems are any better or worse, but I do know that two very anti-Semitic people in Congress are Dems and the GOP is generally more friendly to Israel.

Being pro-Israel sort of means very little when you also are supported by - and refuse to condemn - people who go around chanting "Jews will not replace us".

Do you think Kanye West's rising popularity on the right is a coincidence given that he's being seen wearing "White Lives Matter" clothes and spouting hateful anti-Jewish nonsense?
 
Wow! How many new ways are there? Sounds like I’ve missed several. Could you provide some examples for an interested foreigner?

Out of curiosity, which new method(s) did you get labeled an election denier for questioning? What reasonable concerns did you have that were ignored?

Are you equally concerned about other aspects of fair elections, such as fair access to polling stations, fair voter registration, freedom from intimidation, etc.?


Rubber gloves could be explained by that pesky little pandemic, you probably have heard of it. I tried googling dropping off 20 ballots while wearing rubber gloves but only got hits for 2000 Mules so you’ll have to provide more information about that incident.

Regarding voting requiring “some level of work” and voters “should be willing to at the very least be slightly inconvenienced“, how do you picture that in the context of fair elections? Is it fine to burden certain groups of voters with more work? Inconveniencing them more?


AFAIK all these ballot dumping conspiracies have failed to produce even one ballot that was fraudulent and they conveniently leave that out of the discussion. But by their standards the actual vote doesn’t count. The only thing that counts is how the ballot got there to be counted because that’s the only aspect they could call into question that might work out in their favor. This Is one of the many reasons we need national voting standards. There’s no reason to leave it up to the states other than one party attempting to manipulate it in their favor.
 
I know this thread is about the 2022 Midterms, but I have to ask… $5,000? I thought you guys used annual income when discussing income, not monthly income?

For 2022 the threshold for paying Swedish state tax is 540,700 SEK (around $48,500 today, $65,800 in 2021, darn exchange rates) of taxable annual income after deductions for an individual. You can live a pretty sweet life in Sweden if you make enough money to pay state tax (something like 150% of the median income).

I could point out a bunch of sweet “something for it”, like medicine capped at 2,400 SEK ($215)/year, healthcare capped at 1,200 SEK/year, going to university without paying for it, etc., and that you as an employee are entitled to a minimum of 25 days paid vacation/year, but this is not the thread for it and it wouldn‘t really matter anyway. Just bringing over the tax percentages and applying them to your current situation without actually considering what you get for it is either beyond stupid or intentionally dishonest. If the masses realized how much they would gain from it (and you allowed them to vote fairly), your beloved current system would be fucked.

In any case — Quite sad to hear that you prefer fascism over democracy with a marginal tax rate of 32%/52% on average and a VAT of 25% on most goods and “something for it”.

Yep, doing math in my head got me. My bad.

But, that is only for the national taxes. The municipal taxes of 32% start at the first dollar per this chart:

Sweden Tax.png


So that is still very high for most in the US. I mean 32% at dollar one. And as noted there is a 25% VAT (similar to a sales tax, but hidden in the cost of the goods) That would not fly here no matter the benefits. Chart was found here:

 
Hold on, there is meaning.
fascism
făsh′ĭz″əm
noun
  1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator*, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
  2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
  3. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
* Trump is our wannabe dictator and the GOP who reluctantly supports him as a path to the continued holding of National power.


Do we really want to get into dictionary definitions? Because if we do, here is one for you:

Liberal Def.png


Does that really fit some of you here? Nope. Actually fits me better than many of you. Between here and MR, I do not remember calling anyone names, accusing them of wanting to kill other members or belittling them. Yet it happens to me here all the time. Doesn't sound like you respect or accept different opinions at all?

I don't react back for two reasons, one I don't care. Caring about this is not who I am as a person nor do I want to be the person that acts like some of you act towards me. Second, @Eric has provided us a place to hang, free of charge. So I am not going to disrespect him by forcing him to moderate what should be a room full of adults.

Do we disagree on some things. Sure. But we all need to be adults about it, but sadly some of us aren't. And that is about the limit of the shade I am willing to throw.
 
Wow! How many new ways are there? Sounds like I’ve missed several. Could you provide some examples for an interested foreigner?

Out of curiosity, which new method(s) did you get labeled an election denier for questioning? What reasonable concerns did you have that were ignored?

Are you equally concerned about other aspects of fair elections, such as fair access to polling stations, fair voter registration, freedom from intimidation, etc.?


Rubber gloves could be explained by that pesky little pandemic, you probably have heard of it. I tried googling dropping off 20 ballots while wearing rubber gloves but only got hits for 2000 Mules so you’ll have to provide more information about that incident.

Regarding voting requiring “some level of work” and voters “should be willing to at the very least be slightly inconvenienced“, how do you picture that in the context of fair elections? Is it fine to burden certain groups of voters with more work? Inconveniencing them more?

Like i said, Election Day used to be an event. You could only vote that day and that was the case for a couple hundred years. In some states, if you had a valid reason like being out of town or being elderly, you could request an Absentee Ballot that you could fill out and mail in.

Then came early voting. I really don't have any problem with it except some people may have already voted when information about a candidate changes. Take PA for example. Early voting there began around October 1st. The debate is tonight. So if something major happens and you already voted, you can't change your vote. Can work against/for either candidate so as to fairness it it kind of a wash. Except for the voter who wanted to change their vote. I have done early voting here for years, but ours is in-person only at the Courthouse.

Then along comes no excuse absentee ballots. Anyone can have one for any reason. And this is where it can get sketchy. I don't think there are enough controls over this. The standards for matching signatures has been all over the place with some states strictly enforcing it and others not caring. And don't get me started with ballot harvesting.

I think anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote. But there do need to be some controls. I'm sorry, but if being asked for an ID is intimidating to you, then you need to grow up. You need an ID to do just about anything these days so the idea that people (mainly minorities) can't get one is BS. If everyone has to show it, where is the intimidation?

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Yes, the hits you are going to get is from 2000 Mules. I have some concerns about some of their conclusions. For example, they make a big show about how certain cell phones ping off certain towers near drop boxes and then near some non-profit. They are trying to make a case so I get that is what they are doing. They also really never explain how the mules get the ballots.

But while the cell phone data may be sketchy, one thing that isn't is the camera pointed at the drop box. It simply records what it sees. And that is where the rubber gloves come into play.

For the 2020 General, the cameras didn't really pick up anyone wearing rubber gloves. That was really only the case for the GA runoff elections in January. Just so happens that in Arizona a woman had been arrested and charged for illegal ballot harvesting between the General and the GA runoff and the proof was her fingerprints on the ballots. Now the connection is circumstantial, but it does raise questions. No gloves before a woman was arrested for ballot harvesting, gloves after. Is it proof, No. Is it something that should be investigated, yes. But ask a legit question about it and you are labeled an election denier. But only if you are a Republican. Hillary and Stacey can say their elections were stolen all day long and the media will celebrate them. A Republican asks how Biden who didn't come out of his basement for a year got more votes than Obama and you are the worst POS in history.
 
Yep, doing math in my head got me. My bad.

But, that is only for the national taxes. The municipal taxes of 32% start at the first dollar per this chart:

View attachment 18634

So that is still very high for most in the US. I mean 32% at dollar one.
Not exactly dollar one. Or even krona one. Taxable income is less than total income. Still high in comparison, sure. At least you weren’t off by an order of magnitude this time. Progress!

And as noted there is a 25% VAT (similar to a sales tax, but hidden in the cost of the goods) That would not fly here no matter the benefits. Chart was found here:

If that wouldn’t fly there no matter the benefits, there is something seriously wrong with y’all. What if one were to end up with more money remaining to spend after taxes and expenses thanks to the benefits?
 
So if something major happens and you already voted, you can't change your vote. Can work against/for either candidate so as to fairness it it kind of a wash. Except for the voter who wanted to change their vote.

If a voter is on the fence about who to vote for, they should not cast their ballot until they've absorbed as much information as they need (including debates) before casting their ballot. Similar to buying a car, or ordering a meal at a nice restaurant.

That seems like the responsible thing to do.
 
Like i said, Election Day used to be an event. You could only vote that day and that was the case for a couple hundred years. In some states, if you had a valid reason like being out of town or being elderly, you could request an Absentee Ballot that you could fill out and mail in.

Then came early voting. I really don't have any problem with it except some people may have already voted when information about a candidate changes. Take PA for example. Early voting there began around October 1st. The debate is tonight. So if something major happens and you already voted, you can't change your vote. Can work against/for either candidate so as to fairness it it kind of a wash. Except for the voter who wanted to change their vote. I have done early voting here for years, but ours is in-person only at the Courthouse.

Then along comes no excuse absentee ballots. Anyone can have one for any reason. And this is where it can get sketchy. I don't think there are enough controls over this. The standards for matching signatures has been all over the place with some states strictly enforcing it and others not caring. And don't get me started with ballot harvesting.

I think anyone who wants to vote should be able to vote. But there do need to be some controls. I'm sorry, but if being asked for an ID is intimidating to you, then you need to grow up. You need an ID to do just about anything these days so the idea that people (mainly minorities) can't get one is BS. If everyone has to show it, where is the intimidation?

----------------------

Yes, the hits you are going to get is from 2000 Mules. I have some concerns about some of their conclusions. For example, they make a big show about how certain cell phones ping off certain towers near drop boxes and then near some non-profit. They are trying to make a case so I get that is what they are doing. They also really never explain how the mules get the ballots.

But while the cell phone data may be sketchy, one thing that isn't is the camera pointed at the drop box. It simply records what it sees. And that is where the rubber gloves come into play.

For the 2020 General, the cameras didn't really pick up anyone wearing rubber gloves. That was really only the case for the GA runoff elections in January. Just so happens that in Arizona a woman had been arrested and charged for illegal ballot harvesting between the General and the GA runoff and the proof was her fingerprints on the ballots. Now the connection is circumstantial, but it does raise questions. No gloves before a woman was arrested for ballot harvesting, gloves after. Is it proof, No. Is it something that should be investigated, yes. But ask a legit question about it and you are labeled an election denier. But only if you are a Republican. Hillary and Stacey can say their elections were stolen all day long and the media will celebrate them. A Republican asks how Biden who didn't come out of his basement for a year got more votes than Obama and you are the worst POS in history.
It’s all about the evidence. Or lack thereof.
 
It’s all about the evidence. Or lack thereof.
even people who should know better are still influenced by trumps lies. even after al of the testimony under oath it still creeps out. with the sketchy mail in ballots crap. I want to see the evidence of sketchy. the nI changed from my poor signature to my initials here I Oregon I got a letter making me verify myself.
 
Then along comes no excuse absentee ballots. Anyone can have one for any reason. And this is where it can get sketchy. I don't think there are enough controls over this.

California mails an official ballot (with a postage-free return envelope) to every REGISTERED voter a few weeks before the election. You can also drop your ballot off at a variety of official drop-off locations.

That ensures high voter participation - as it should be. The system works very well. And it's easy for people who might be traveling, sick/disabled, or having a work schedule that would otherwise make it difficult to vote.
 
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