The Republican Agenda 2021 and Forward

[Huntn]

Scott Pressler spent months turning out the MAGA vote and registering people in Pennsylvania. The Gay Republican is a true believer who breathlessly reports every conspiracy and lie. Now that the election is over, MAGAts have gone from singing their praises to eviscerating them online for being gay.

Stupid is as stupid does…

 

[Huntn]

‘I’m Suffering’: What the 2024 Election Taught Me About America — Bloomberg Businessweek

Trump’s comeback reveals dark truths about the country.

apple.news

Excellent piece by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But his real name is Roger Murdock. He’s an airline pilot.

Behind Bloomberg paywall for me.

 

[Alli]

Behind Bloomberg paywall for me.

Try using https://archive.ph/.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Rand Paul says he’s against tariffs and using the military for deportation. He sounds like a liberal on these two points. Uh, there’s two of your major tentpoles right there (the third being the tentpole they pitch for Trump).

Seriously dude? I love how he waited until now to pull out his phony libertarian schtick. A big to sellout phony LINO Rand Paul.

Don’t get me wrong, he’s right, but where the hell were you until now? Probably eyeballing a 2028 run.

‘It’s Illegal’: Rand Paul Breaks With Trump on Two Key Administration Promises

President-elect Donald Trump has made it clear that he’s looking for yes-men for his next term in office, but Republican Sen. Rand Paul didn’t seem to get the memo. The Kentucky lawmaker spoke on CBS' Face the Nation on Sunday, and firmly stated his stance against both tariffs and the potential...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Yoused]

On a personal note they have some policies I agree with. T

If that were true for me, I would never admit to it. My experience has been that if a RW policy sounds like it might be ok, the implementation of it will go all to hell.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I’m unsure of how I’d stomach Vance. He’s a flip-flopping phony and I respect not a soul who knows Trump is a diptard but goes along with it as if he’s a peer or a leader.

Like walking into a Burger King and seeing the janitor in a pressed suit while the manager picks his nose and flicks his boogers into the deep fryer. But the janitor may need a job and has an excuse.

JD Vance is a sellout carpetbagger.

But, at least he’s sane and stable, minus the obsession with other people and their lifestyles.

 

[Eric]

If that were true for me, I would never admit to it. My experience has been that if a RW policy sounds like it might be ok, the implementation of it will go all to hell.

I have never subscribed to the idea you have to be all in on any specific party. I tend to lean far more towards issues and policies that I either agree or disagree with regardless.

A good example is I watch a lot of Forensic Files and when there is someone whose DNA is all over the people they've raped, tortured and murdered in the worst possible way, I think that person should be executed. Last time I brought that up here I was eviscerated but it's an issue I 100% side with Republicans on.

Just an example of what happens when you don't follow the mob mentality, both sides are equally guilty of it but there's nothing wrong with having your own convictions.

 

[Yoused]

A good example is I watch a lot of Forensic Files and when there is someone whose DNA is all over the people they've raped, tortured and murdered in the worst possible way, I think that person should be executed.

Once again, implementation. If you countenance capital punishment, the RWers will latch onto it as a legally convenient way to get those pesky negroes out of the way. Social issues are complicated, RWers lack nuance, they will take what seem to be reasonable ideas and turn them into shit. I have seen it over and over and over again.

Also, using crime dramas to bolster your stance is typically not well considered. I mean, I have seen numerous episodes of Gunsmoke, but I have no illusions that we would all be happier living in Matt Dillon's Dodge City.

 

[Eric]

Once again, implementation. If you countenance capital punishment, the RWers will latch onto it as a legally convenient way to get those pesky negroes out of the way. Social issues are complicated, RWers lack nuance, they will take what seem to be reasonable ideas and turn them into shit. I have seen it over and over and over again.

Also, using crime dramas to bolster your stance is typically not well considered. I mean, I have seen numerous episodes of Gunsmoke, but I have no illusions that we would all be happier living in Matt Dillon's Dodge City.

Couldn't disagree more. I don't care whether the source is a TV show or a news story, when someone is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (DNA for example) of a capital crime then they should face the appropriate punishment.

Thank you for making my point about how people here react to such an idea though.

 

[GermanSuplex]

My issue with capital punishment is it will never be used only on the obviously guilty. It has been and will continue to be a poorly-implemented deterrent. I don’t trust the right-wingers of today to implement it fairly.

Republicans don’t agree with compromise or working together either. It’s a very slippery slope, and there’s countless cases of evidence manipulation.

I don’t trust these people to babysit a pet, I certainly don’t trust them to execute humans fairly.

I agree with the premise, but my worry over implementing it far outweighs it. Plus, death isn’t even really a big deterrent for many.

I’d be ok with it if we also used it on white collar criminals who illegally grift over a certain amount.

*Apple News pushed this article to me today.. It can happen here, and does.

A Boxer on Death Row — The Atlantic

Each day for 50 years, the Japanese boxer Iwao Hakamada woke up unsure whether it would be his last. November 18, 2024 On a sunny morning in October 2023, a 90-year-old woman in a blue blazer walked slowly toward the main courthouse in Shizuoka, a city on the Japanese coast about a two-hour...

apple.news

 

[rdrr]

Couldn't disagree more. I don't care whether the source is a TV show or a news story, when someone is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (DNA for example) of a capital crime then they should face the appropriate punishment.

Thank you for making my point about how people here react to such an idea though.

I used to be in the same camp as you, until there were a few scandals in some crime labs. There were hundreds of cases in MA and dozens in NC affected. Anytime humans get involved, errors and biases will as well.

Not completely disagreeing with you, I just don’t know if I will completely trust law and order anymore. Especially since if you are rich and powerful you have the means to fight a case, however the large % of the defendants are not in that category.

 

[KingOfPain]

A good example is I watch a lot of Forensic Files and when there is someone whose DNA is all over the people they've raped, tortured and murdered in the worst possible way, I think that person should be executed. Last time I brought that up here I was eviscerated but it's an issue I 100% side with Republicans on.

Fun fact: The German police had been searching for years for a phantom woman, whose DNA was found at lots of different crime scenes all over Germany that seemed to be unrelated.
Eventually, it turned out that the woman worked in a factory that produced the swabs and accidentally contaminated a whole bunch of them.

I've long given up DNA as the proves all method, since DNA doesn't really age (the suspect could have been at the scene of the crime years before) and it's actually much easier to plant DNA than fingerprints to frame someone.

I also cannot watch most German crime series (I haven't watched TV for years anyway), because they still often use gun shot residue as proof that someone shot a weapon.
It has been proved decades ago that GSR can stay in the air for quite some time, and someone walking through the location later on can get it on their skin and clothes. This led to the FBI reopening lots of cases where suspects were convicted mainly due to GSR.

Sorry for the tangent, but actually diving into forensics made me much more critical of them.

 

[Eric]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

There are many open and shut cases where it's indefensible, I get everything needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt and it's fair we question it, but if they did it and we're 100% I say we fry their ass. Some people are pure evil and don't deserve to exist on this planet.

 

[Citysnaps]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

There are many open and shut cases where it's indefensible, I get everything needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt and it's fair we question it, but if they did it and we're 100% I say we fry their ass. Some people are pure evil and don't deserve to exist on this planet.

I’m opposed to the death penalty. Always have been.

 

[KingOfPain]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

I see the death penalty very critically. You'd better be 100% sure, because you cannot resurrect someone once you found out they were wrongly convicted. And I wouldn't count on the justice system always working correctly (current case in point).
Some people think that it's cheaper to just execute someone instead of incarcerating them for the rest of their live. But I believe death row is actually much more expensive.
Also, the perpetrators should get an opportunity to think about what they did. Of course that won't phase the crazies.

But don't get me started on witness testemony. That's even worse than forensics, because people have very bad recall after stress situations.
There have been experiments where people had to write a (fictional) test. During the test either someone in a gorilla suit or someone complaining about their car being parked in entered the room.
After the test at least half of the people could not even remember someone entering the room.

 

[Alli]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

There are many open and shut cases where it's indefensible, I get everything needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt and it's fair we question it, but if they did it and we're 100% I say we fry their ass. Some people are pure evil and don't deserve to exist on this planet.

I believe in the death penalty. Yes, there needs to be irrefutable proof and the accused needs to have made several voluntary confessions.

We can’t afford to live in a society where we house criminals for life for crimes that can be paid for: theft, weed, etc. Victimless crime needs to be reevaluated. But killing another born human deserves no sympathy.

 

[rdrr]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

There are many open and shut cases where it's indefensible, I get everything needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt and it's fair we question it, but if they did it and we're 100% I say we fry their ass. Some people are pure evil and don't deserve to exist on this planet.

I agree, but realistically most crimes are solved by DNA and other evidence rather than eye-witnesses (which can also be faulty).

 

[GermanSuplex]

Just for the sake of argument let me ask you all this hypothetically, if you actually witnessed a person committing said heinous crime, would you then support the death penalty?

Yes. I’m not against it in principle, only practically. All those mass killers would be good candidates, but they usually off themselves, or are also too young for me to agree.

There are and have been cases where I support it. Even non-murder cases, like people who imprison others for decades and such, like Josef Fritzl.

 

[Nycturne]

I see the death penalty very critically. You'd better be 100% sure, because you cannot resurrect someone once you found out they were wrongly convicted. And I wouldn't count on the justice system always working correctly (current case in point).
Some people think that it's cheaper to just execute someone instead of incarcerating them for the rest of their live. But I believe death row is actually much more expensive.

I’ve read the same thing. Life in prison is cheaper, is easier to "fix" in the case of wrongful incarceration, and can serve the same purpose of removing the person from everyday society. And just in the last couple months, we’ve had executions of people where they clearly don’t seem to meet the criteria posited by those in the thread.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/24/us/marcellus-williams-scheduled-execution-date/index.html

Here’s one from Sept where both the prosecution and defense were trying to stop the execution because new evidence pointed to a wrongful incarceration. This was in the face of the governor shutting down the team that was investigating to try to get to the bottom of what happened, which hobbled the ability to get clear evidence one way or another on the issue of if the forensic evidence was contaminated.

We have a system that values finality over fairness, and this is the result that we will get from that.

South Carolina executes first man in 13 years despite new evidence of innocence

Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, killed by lethal injection days after state’s key witness recanted critical testimony

www.theguardian.com

Literally days before the above, another inmate is executed despite the case having no forensic evidence, and the key witness coming forward saying he lied, and providing a new affidavit.

the death penalty is not given to the ‘worst of the worst’, it is given to the people who are least able to represent themselves in court

State district judge recommends overturning Melissa Lucio’s death sentence

In a rare joint statement, the district attorney and the defense agreed that prosecutors withheld evidence that could point to a Rio Grande Valley woman’s innocence in the death of her toddler.

www.texastribune.org

Mother in Texas has the prosecution fighting to release her because evidence was withheld from the defense. She was given the death penalty for the death of her 2-year-old daughter. She might actually get to go back to her family one day. Were still waiting to find out.

In the face of this, when so few people are executed per year as it is… I cannot trust the government with the power of execution of its citizens, especially when the protections against abuse towards poorer people and minorities are basically at the whim of the governor and/or a single trial judge.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Initially I was on board but I’ve already grown tired of the “buyer’s remorse” content similar to the years of “smoking gun” content that ultimately meant nothing. The guy isn’t even in office yet. How about we let him fuck things up before proclaiming large scale buyer’s remorse.

The only immediate thing I believe is Democrats and people on the left cutting off Trump voters, although the scale of that is up for debate. All the content about that seems to be sharing the same posts as proof. One in particular is a video of a young woman crying over her family cutting her off because of her vote. People like to say the Democrats are out of touch but in an effort to level the playing field on that she said “I didn’t do that to them when Biden won”. If she thinks this is the exact same thing then I’m not surprised her family cut her off.