Tim is teasing something new

[theorist9]

I am aware that the plural of anecdote is not data. My 50 sample size is indeed too small, but thought to was interesting nonetheless. More anecdata: of those 50, at least 30 are iPhone Pro Maxes. People like big phones.

I'd be curious to see stats on how it breaks out by gender---whether women are as likely or more likely to buy big phones vs men, in spite of having (on avg) smaller hands, because using a handbag makes the portability difference between a Pro and a Pro Max marginal.

 

[Vincent Hannah]

My 50 used to skew towards women for the big screens, (me included), but when the pandemic hit and I started using my phone more has a mini iPad at home, its pocketablilty became less of an issue. I now see no gender difference in the preference of the Pro Max model. In fact, most of the base iPhone users are younger people who only have the smaller 6.1" screen due to cost. They almost all would prefer the Pro Max, but it's out of their budgets.

Just as unpopular as the mini among my 50? iPhone Plus (1 user) and iPhone Pro (2 users).

 

[Herdfan]

I saw an industry report saying iPhone 13 Mini sales were only 3% of total iPhone 13 sales. If so, I can see why they cancelled it.

But some people, like the wife, want a smaller form phone. She has one of each SE and now has a mini.

And she will keep it until it dies if they don’t have anything comparable to replace it.

 

[Eric]

But some people, like the wife, want a smaller form phone. She has one of each SE and now has a mini.

And she will keep it until it dies if they don’t have anything comparable to replace it.

That's my best friend, finally just replaced his iPhone 6.

 

[japanime]

I’m rocking a 12 mini, and my kid has a 13 mini. At the time, I got a good number of my family (plus extended) on the minis. Not sure what I’ll do when mine dies.

Funny thing though, so many people I talk to at work (university) complain about how big their phone is…

I'm also a 12 mini owner. The sad truth is, Apple will most likely stop supporting iOS updates for the 12 mini and 13 mini long before the hardware is obsolete.

 

[MacPoulet]

I'm also a 12 mini owner. The sad truth is, Apple will most likely stop supporting iOS updates for the 12 mini and 13 mini long before the hardware is obsolete.

Hopefully that won’t be for a few more years. I tend to grab hand-me-downs as a phone isn’t super necessary for me (I don’t even have a data plan). But if it was and I needed to replace my mini, I’d probably have to switch to Android…

 

[japanime]

Hopefully that won’t be for a few more years. I tend to grab hand-me-downs as a phone isn’t super necessary for me (I don’t even have a data plan). But if it was and I needed to replace my mini, I’d probably have to switch to Android…

I hope so, too. However, Apple stopped providing software updates for the Apple Watch SE (version 1) a little over two years after I bought it. When Apple wants to wash its hands of a product, they do so swiftly.

 

[Edd]

I hope so, too. However, Apple stopped providing software updates for the Apple Watch SE (version 1) a little over two years after I bought it. When Apple wants to wash its hands of a product, they do so swiftly.

Wait, did you buy it the year it came out? Two years sounds crazy.

 

[japanime]

Wait, did you buy it the year it came out? Two years sounds crazy.

No, I bought it about a month before the Apple Watch SE2 was released. (Yes, I know one shouldn't buy Apple stuff right before new products are to be announced, but my Series 2 had died and I really didn't want to wait. So, part of it is on me. However, I do feel Apple hardware should be able to support updates for longer than 2 years after it goes off the market.

In any case, at the time I bought it in August 2022, it was the current SE model, and being advertised on the Apple website as one of their "latest, greatest" things. So, I bought a watch that had WatchOS 9 preinstalled, and was able to update to WatchOS 10 a year later. So I got a grand total of one "major" update before Apple dropped it.

(Because the original SE was released in September 2020 with WatchOS 7, the model itself received a total of three major updates before being dropped.)

 

[theorist9]

.

 

[fischersd]

No, I bought it about a month before the Apple Watch SE2 was released. (Yes, I know one shouldn't buy Apple stuff right before new products are to be announced, but my Series 2 had died and I really didn't want to wait. So, part of it is on me. However, I do feel Apple hardware should be able to support updates for longer than 2 years after it goes off the market.

In any case, at the time I bought it in August 2022, it was the current SE model, and being advertised on the Apple website as one of their "latest, greatest" things. So, I bought a watch that had WatchOS 9 preinstalled, and was able to update to WatchOS 10 a year later. So I got a grand total of one "major" update before Apple dropped it.

(Because the original SE was released in September 2020 with WatchOS 7, the model itself received a total of three major updates before being dropped.)

Same boat. My Series 3 was pushed off of a table on a patio when we were in Thailand. The screen popped off, just like that. Bought the SE to save a few bucks and bridge me until I felt I needed a new watch again. The SE2 came out about 4 weeks later - just outside of the return window *sigh*.

Was driving me nuts not being able to run beta code - got a 10 when they came out.

 

[theorist9]

I'm also a 12 mini owner. The sad truth is, Apple will most likely stop supporting iOS updates for the 12 mini and 13 mini long before the hardware is obsolete.

Hopefully that won’t be for a few more years. I tend to grab hand-me-downs as a phone isn’t super necessary for me (I don’t even have a data plan). But if it was and I needed to replace my mini, I’d probably have to switch to Android…

Based on this, it appears full support for the 12 will end with iOS 19 (fall 2026), and for the 13 will end with iOS 20 (fall 2027); and that they will get an additional two years of partial security support, which extends things to fall 2028 and 2029, respectively.

So if you bought these phones when they came out, that gives six years of full support, or 8 years if you include the partial security support.

I don't know if most 3rd-party iPhone apps require the iOS be fully supported to run, or tend to extend their functionality until the end of partial security support, or beyond that. With MacOS, it's all over the place. TurboTax and MS Office require the OS be fully supported, while Firefox, Chrome, and Edge still run on High Sierra (and possibly earlier).

How long does Apple support iPhones?

Apple supports old iPhone iOSs for years, so even really old iPhones still get updates. But if it's iPhone 6 parts you need you might not be so lucky.

www.macworld.com

 

[MacPoulet]

Based on this, it appears full support for the 12 will end with iOS 19 (fall 2026), and for the 13 will end with iOS 20 (fall 2027); and that they will get an additional two years of partial security support, which extends things to fall 2028 and 2029, respectively.

So if you bought these phones when they came out, that gives six years of full support, or 8 years if you include the partial security support.

I don't know if most 3rd-party iPhone apps require the iOS be fully supported to run, or tend to extend their functionality until the end of partial security support, or beyond that. With MacOS, it's all over the place. TurboTax and MS Office require the OS be fully supported, while Firefox, Chrome, and Edge still run on High Sierra (and possibly earlier).

How long does Apple support iPhones?

Apple supports old iPhone iOSs for years, so even really old iPhones still get updates. But if it's iPhone 6 parts you need you might not be so lucky.

www.macworld.com

Give me a few years at least. And I bet by 2028 my 12 mini will feel quite sluggish.

 

[dada_dave]

Article on the new modem: C1.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-reveals-first-custom-modem-chip-shifting-away-qualcomm-2025-02-19/

C2/3 to launch in 2027:

Apple C3 tipped to debut as next-gen modem chip in 2027

The 16e has just been unveiled as the very first iPhone with 'Apple 5G' thanks to the new C1 chip. Its successor is now tipped to be called the C3 rather than the C2, perhaps because it will not launch for about 2 years from now. In the meantime, the Cupertino behemoth has provided a deeper dive...

www.notebookcheck.net

Plus some more tidbits about C1.

It has now been revealed to have a 7 nanometer(nm) architecture - albeit only in its transceiver (the part that allows data signals to flow to and from the chip), with a newer 4nm process for its baseband (the part of the chip that actually processes the signals).

Apple asserts that the unusual dual-architecture design is perfectly optimized to work with the 16e's A18 processor, and leads to the smoothest gameplay, browsing or uploads on the device thanks to their custom integration.

 

[japanime]

Same boat. My Series 3 was pushed off of a table on a patio when we were in Thailand. The screen popped off, just like that. Bought the SE to save a few bucks and bridge me until I felt I needed a new watch again. The SE2 came out about 4 weeks later - just outside of the return window *sigh*.

Was driving me nuts not being able to run beta code - got a 10 when they came out.

The improved Activities app is the only WatchOS 11 feature that I really wanted to have on my original SE. Once the battery can no longer hold an adequate charge, I'll take a look at what Garmin has to offer.

 

[theorist9]

Just for fun: Apple leaker Digital Chat Station posted this on Weibo about the upcoming Apple foldable. English translation shown here.

Sina Visitor System

If we assume (as is likely) the phone folds in half, and that the outer display covers an entire side, then we can easily calculate the folded and unfolded screen dimensions, and thus the aspect ratios, since that gives us two equations and two unknowns.

Let:
a = folded screen width; 2 a = unfolded screen width; b = height

Then:
a^2 + b^2 = 5.49"^2
(2a)^2 + b^2 = 7.74"^2

Giving:
a = 3.15"; 2a = 6.30"; b = 4.50"

This means the crease will run along the short length rather than the long length. I.e., it will unfold like a Z Flip instead of a Z Fold. This gives an unfolded aspect ratio of 6.30/4.50 = 1.4:1, and a folded aspect ratio that's nearly the same: 4.50/3.15 = 1.43:1.

I suspect this was deliberate (assuming, of course the leaker's info. and my assumptions are correct), and will indeed be unique if all other foldable phones have significantly different aspect ratios when folded vs. unfolded (which I suspect is the case, though I've not checked comprehensively).

A-series paper does the same thing: All sizes are designed so that, if you cut it in half, it retains its sqrt(2):1 aspect ratio. That may be where Apple got the idea (again, if this leak is legit).

Using the bezel width of the iPhone 16 (2.275 mm =0.09"), we can estimate its folded size by adding 0.18" to each screen dimension, giving:
4.7" x 3.3"

That should be nicely pocketable, since it's close to the size of a typical man's bifold wallet (4.5" x 3.5"). Though I'd personally prefer if it were closer to the Z Flip in size. And those with small hands might find the folded size too wide to comfortably hold during calls.

To give some context, I've ordered these by area:
Samsung Z Flip 6: 3.35" x 2.83" = 9.5 in^2 (folded); 6.60 oz
Phone 13 Mini: 5.18" x 2.53" = 13.1 in^2; 4.97 oz
Rumored foldable iPhone: 4.7" x 3.3" = 15.5 in^2 (folded); est ≈ 8 oz
Samsung Z Fold 6: 6.04" x 2.68" = 16.2 in^2 (folded); 8.43 oz
iPhone 16e: 5.87" x 2.82" = 16.3 in^2; 5.88 oz
iPhone 16 Pro: 5.89" x 2.81" = 16.6 in^2; 7.03 oz
Oppo Find N5: 6.33" x 2.92" = 18.5 in^2 (folded); 8.08 oz
iPhone 16 Pro Max: 6.42" x 3.06" = 19.6 in^2; 7.99 oz

Alas, even if it is as pocketable as the Mini, it will still likely weigh ≈60% more.

 

[Cmaier]

Just for fun: Apple leaker Digital Chat Station posted this on Weibo about the upcoming Apple foldable. English translation shown here.

Sina Visitor System

View attachment 33984
If we assume (as is likely) the phone folds in half, and that the outer display covers an entire side, then we can easily calculate the folded and unfolded screen dimensions, and thus the aspect ratios, since that gives us two equations and two unknowns.

Let:
a = folded screen width; 2 a = unfolded screen width; b = height

Then:
a^2 + b^2 = 5.49"^2
(2a)^2 + b^2 = 7.74"^2

Giving:
a = 3.15"; 2a = 6.30"; b = 4.50"

This means the crease will run along the short length rather than the long length. I.e., it will unfold like a Z Flip instead of a Z Fold. This gives an unfolded aspect ratio of 6.30/4.50 = 1.4:1, and a folded aspect ratio that's nearly the same: 4.50/3.15 = 1.43:1.

I suspect this was deliberate (assuming, of course the leaker's info. and my assumptions are correct), and will indeed be unique if all other foldable phones have significantly different aspect ratios when folded vs. unfolded (which I suspect is the case, though I've not checked comprehensively).

A-series paper does the same thing: All sizes are designed so that, if you cut it in half, it retains its sqrt(2):1 aspect ratio. That may be where Apple got the idea (again, if this leak is legit).

Using the bezel width of the iPhone 16 (2.275 mm =0.09"), we can estimate its folded size by adding 0.18" to each screen dimension, giving:
4.7" x 3.3"

That should be nicely pocketable, since it's close to the size of a typical man's bifold wallet (4.5" x 3.5"). Though I'd personally prefer if it were closer to the Z Flip in size. And those with small hands might find the folded size too wide to comfortably hold during calls.

To give some context, I've ordered these by area:
Samsung Z Flip 6: 3.35" x 2.83" = 9.5 in^2 (folded); 6.60 oz
Phone 13 Mini: 5.18" x 2.53" = 13.1 in^2; 4.97 oz
Rumored foldable iPhone: 4.7" x 3.3" = 15.5 in^2 (folded); est ≈ 8 oz
Samsung Z Fold 6: 6.04" x 2.68" = 16.2 in^2 (folded); 8.43 oz
iPhone 16e: 5.87" x 2.82" = 16.3 in^2; 5.88 oz
iPhone 16 Pro: 5.89" x 2.81" = 16.6 in^2; 7.03 oz
Oppo Find N5: 6.33" x 2.92" = 18.5 in^2 (folded); 8.08 oz
iPhone 16 Pro Max: 6.42" x 3.06" = 19.6 in^2; 7.99 oz

Alas, even if it is as pocketable as the Mini, it will still likely weigh ≈60% more.

So a 3x5 card that opens to approximately an ipad mini. Sounds fun. If, as rumored, there is no crease, could be quite something. I’d be interested, but I’m guessing there will be lots of camera and other tradeoffs.

 

[Vincent Hannah]

I still see all foldables as a solution in search of a problem.

 

[Cmaier]

I still see all foldables as a solution in search of a problem.

I largely agree, but if apple can work some sort of magic and give me an ipad that fits in my pocket, then I’d be interested, at least. The bigger the screen the better, given my vision.

The iphone form factor - tall and skinny - is really a vestige of a use case that isn’t that important for most people nowadays. How often does anyone hold an iPhone to one’s ear and use it as a phone, nowadays?

More of a wallet aspect ratio makes a lot of sense to me. And if I can unfold it and have an iPad mini, that might be pretty sweet. Of course it’s all in the execution, so who knows.

 

[theorist9]

I still see all foldables as a solution in search of a problem.

Depends on the size. The Z Flip solves the problem that some people want a relatively large screen on a phone that's easily pocketable.

Here's some perspective on this from someone that owns one:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90959177/one-year-with-a-foldable-flip-phone-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly