USA Election 2024

GermanSuplex said:
Trump just now - “there’s some bad spots in PA where some serious things have been caught or are in the process of being caught. We’re ahead in all seven swing states.”

That was his opening statement today, the first words out of his mouth at his “press conference”.

Give me a damn break.

“They have transgender on demand, even if you’re in detention.”

Come on Herdfan, why is Trump allowed to speak like this but Harris - who speaks much better at all times - is critiqued? These are not equal.
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Herdfan said:
Because she is on camera saying it. Maybe not the On Demand part, but she said transgender surgery for inmates and migrants.
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You have to remember, he'll only ever hold anyone but Trump accountable for their words. Engaging him on this is fruitless, the irony is totally lost.
 
Eric said:
You have to remember, he'll only ever hold anyone but Trump accountable for their words. Engaging him on this is fruitless, the irony is totally lost.
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One critique is we don’t listen to the other side, but let it be not for a lack of trying. I realize the futility, but I prod because I’d rather hear it from a friendly face on the board where the conversation can be a little more civil. But it’s always just a paragraph of one of Kamala’s weaker sentences, which is always still better than most of the crap that flies out Trump’s mouth.
 
Herdfan said:
Because she is on camera saying it. Maybe not the On Demand part, but she said transgender surgery for inmates and migrants.
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Ok, so she didn’t say what he said. And it doesn’t even get to the problem of his speech patterns. Why not say “Kamala wants to offer taxpayer funded transgender (or gender reassignment) surgery for inmates and illegal immigrants?”

I’m a dimwit on a message board who can speak more eloquently than Trump.

“On demand transgender in detention” is a mangling of speech, a lie, and does not convey the message YOU are sanitizing for Trump.
 
One thing I find disturbing is Trump’s generic list of enemies is long and extensive and there’s still undecided Trump leaning voters that are fine with that until he throws their specific group in the mix and then it’s all “Oh no, he din’t! He must be stopped!”
 
If Harris loses I don’t know what Democrats’ lesson will be but I know what it should be. Promising a positive better more inclusive future is only a half strategy, but you don’t fight fascist anger with “well, that’s just mean.” You fight it with an equal amount of anger and determination. And sorry to say, but some people are only fueled by anger. Anything less than that is just seen as weakness that won’t get them on your side.
 
Chew Toy McCoy said:
If Harris loses I don’t know what Democrats’ lesson will be but I know what it should be. Promising a positive better more inclusive future is only a half strategy, but you don’t fight fascist anger with “well, that’s just mean.” You fight it with an equal amount of anger and determination. And sorry to say, but some people are only fueled by anger. Anything less than that is just seen as weakness that won’t get them on your side.
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Agreed, she's doing all she can with a message of unity and I applaud her for it. If hate and division is what wins out then that's what the people must want. Democracy, I guess. 🤷‍♂️
 
Eric said:
And what will be your takeaway if Republicans lose?
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Trump is too toxic.

Chew Toy McCoy said:
A slogan that somebody came up with in a dorm room that goes nowhere isn’t policy.
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Defund the Police wasn't a dorm room slogan. It managed to get implemented in multiple cities.

The thing is those who supported it, college educated white liberals, usually lived in safe areas where crime was low to begin with. But the non-college educated working class lived in marginal areas and they liked the police. So it never resonated with the voters.

Same with immigration. Yes, we need some migrants, but not at the levels we are seeing. But it sounds fine to the CEWL's (hey a new acronym pronounced cool) weren't affected so they supported it.

The working class, which was the democratic base for decades, has abandoned them. Someone needs to ask them why.
 
Herdfan said:
Trump is too toxic.
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Hard not to agree with this. I'll add that he's essentially been running the GOP by proxy this entire time, if he does lose it feels like it will be a referendum on him directly, when it really "should" be on the Biden presidency. Democrats have had some success pinning him as the incumbent and it's mostly because he hasn't shut up for a single day over the last 4 years.
 
Herdfan said:
Defund the Police wasn't a dorm room slogan. It managed to get implemented in multiple cities.
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I don't think it ever did. It was talked about, chanted, and shouted from the rooftops in 2020, but a year later, there was no real push for police reform, and funding for the police increased nearly across the board.

There may have been a few cities that cut police funding for a little while, but they were the exception, and most, if not all of them, ended up reversing course soon after.
 
Herdfan said:
Trump is too toxic.



Defund the Police wasn't a dorm room slogan. It managed to get implemented in multiple cities.

The thing is those who supported it, college educated white liberals, usually lived in safe areas where crime was low to begin with. But the non-college educated working class lived in marginal areas and they liked the police. So it never resonated with the voters.

Same with immigration. Yes, we need some migrants, but not at the levels we are seeing. But it sounds fine to the CEWL's (hey a new acronym pronounced cool) weren't affected so they supported it.

The working class, which was the democratic base for decades, has abandoned them. Someone needs to ask them why.
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Honest question. Where was defund the police implemented because I sincerely don’t know. I know residence in SF are mad about crime and the decriminalization of drugs in Portland proved to be a failure, but AFAIK those progressive experiments are in the process of being reversed by both voters and politicians. IMO those experiments didn’t work because the total program wasn’t robust enough. I don’t know what the totality was but it sure seemed like it consisted entirely of low level theft won’t be prosecuted in SF and it’s a drug free-for-all in Portland. That’s not a robust plan and doomed to fail.

It's unfortunate for Republicans that Trump and Trumpism has become so toxic that reasonable Republicans will be given no chance in areas they might have before, but at the same time I think there’s enough diversity in the Democrat party that voters aren’t totally screwed with the much lesser evil. Like I said, changes being made in SF and Portland and it’s not the result of completely flipping to Republicans.

Both parties have failed immigration on purpose to keep it as a wedge issue at the behest of the wealthy. Nobody loves the concept of an open border more than top level capitalists because it drives down wages and keeps the prospect of homelessness on the table as a motivator to take a shit job for shit pay, but I don’t know anybody who believes in the extremes the politicians and media are accusing the other side of.

I agree the Democrats abandoned the working class in favor of Wall St. and big tech. That’s what they learned from Reagan and implemented starting with Clinton. They wanted (needed?) their own big donors.
 
Should be interesting to see how this affects the race. I think it will hurt Trump.

share.newsbreak.com

Supreme Court rejects push to remove Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from ballot in two swing states - NewsBreak

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected an emergency appeal to remove Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from the presidential ballot in two battleground states. Kennedy wanted to get off the ballot in Wisconsin and Michigan after dropping his independent bid and endorsing Republican Donald...
share.newsbreak.com share.newsbreak.com
 
Herdfan said:
Trump is too toxic.

Defund the Police wasn't a dorm room slogan. It managed to get implemented in multiple cities.

The thing is those who supported it, college educated white liberals, usually lived in safe areas where crime was low to begin with. But the non-college educated working class lived in marginal areas and they liked the police. So it never resonated with the voters.

Same with immigration. Yes, we need some migrants, but not at the levels we are seeing. But it sounds fine to the CEWL's (hey a new acronym pronounced cool) weren't affected so they supported it.

The working class, which was the democratic base for decades, has abandoned them. Someone needs to ask them why.
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Hard not to agree about Trump's toxicity, though I think it understates the case by orders of magnitude.

Here's exactly what Harris said about the police in 2020: "Harris said in the June radio interview the movement “rightly” called out the amount of money spent on police departments instead of community services such as education, housing, and healthcare, emphasizing that more police did not equate to more public safety." That's a far cry from defunding the police, though the nuance is probably lost on Trump supporters. She's also a former prosecutor who worked closely with the police.

According to the Pew Research Center, immigrants made up 14.3% of the total U.S. population in 2023. That's a lot numerically, but not by percentage. Apart from indigenous people, everyone in this country, including you, is an immigrant historically. The vast majority of legal immigrants contribute immeasurably in a broad range of occupations and disciplines. And, of the ones who are here illegally, most do work that American citizens would refuse, like picking crops. Just how many immigrants do you think we need?

As for the working class, please enlighten us on how Trump's policies will help them get ahead. Tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy? Across-the-board tariffs? His concept of a health plan? Reductions in Medicare and Social Security? Ignoring climate change and its accelerating effects? Ensuring that their wives, daughters, and sisters will die or be maimed because they can't access abortion care? Or maybe it's the check Trump signed to make it seem he was providing relief funds instead of Congress?
 
Eric said:
Hard not to agree with this. I'll add that he's essentially been running the GOP by proxy this entire time, if he does lose it feels like it will be a referendum on him directly, when it really "should" be on the Biden presidency. Democrats have had some success pinning him as the incumbent and it's mostly because he hasn't shut up for a single day over the last 4 years.
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I tend to believe that if Trump wins it will destroy the possibility of a healthy conservative party for at least a generation, if not two. So if that’s what healthy conservatives are hoping for in the near future they will probably be sorely mistaken. It will be Democrats vs an even more insane Republican party for the foreseeable future. Of course, hinging on democracy remaining in tact with every election being a clusterfuck of fraud accusations.
 

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