With Friends Like These…

[Herdfan]

What's different today is the higher relative strengths of fringe caucuses in both parties in the House, and some intraparty fissures in the other body as well, although in the Senate more potential division among Rs than Ds, so far.

Anyway that complicates good faith "give and take" across party lines for sure, because neither party can count on a renegade not breaking ranks and tweeting or sound-biting some hand grenade --on the same day, even in the same hour as when new agreements are being trial ballooned by designated party spokesmen du jour on whatever a key issue is at that time.

Remember the good ole days when Tip O'Neill would go over to the White House and he an Reagan would sit and hammer out a deal and then go tell their parties how it was going to be?

 

[Hrafn]

Remember the good ole days when Tip O'Neill would go over to the White House and he an Reagan would sit and hammer out a deal and then go tell their parties how it was going to be?

Crazy Reagan, suffering from Alzheimers, and allowing Nancy to consult astrologists to schedule meetings?? Yeah, bullshit back then, too. I think that's when republicans lost their shit completely. Although Nixon was weird as well.

 

[lizkat]

Remember the good ole days when Tip O'Neill would go over to the White House and he an Reagan would sit and hammer out a deal and then go tell their parties how it was going to be?

Crazy Reagan, suffering from Alzheimers, and allowing Nancy to consult astrologists to schedule meetings?? Yeah, bullshit back then, too. I think that's when republicans lost their shit completely. Although Nixon was weird as well.

Well even Obama and Boehner were able to get some business done, w/ McConnell stepping in at one point to make it clear to the HFC that default was not an option so to cut it out already... although the Rs in the House were getting so frisky by then that it did cost Boehner his job... and surely after that his successor Paul Ryan knew he was not going to keep the Rs in the House from shifting farther right than Ryan himself was interested in going on some issues.

 

[Hrafn]

Well even Obama and Boehner were able to get some business done, w/ McConnell stepping in at one point to make it clear to the HFC that default was not an option so to cut it out already... although the Rs in the House were getting so frisky by then that it did cost Boehner his job... and surely after that his successor Paul Ryan knew he was not going to keep the Rs in the House from shifting farther right than Ryan himself was interested in going on some issues.

McConnell is an abject, evil snake.

There are some Rs in office with a shred of humanity, they all get toasted by the bat-shits. At this point, I'll put Sinema right alongside the worst of the Rs.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

So is he. There was a bi-partisan bill passed by the Senate that the House won't even take up. Probably because the Squad has threatened to derail it, but make them vote on it anyway.

The only reason it's bipartisan is because Biden is a dinosaur who somehow managed to sleep through the Obama years when he was actually the vice president. Those days are done, or hopefully, on pause. He's on a fool's errand with that mindset.

Even as a lefty I believe conservatives should have a place of respect at the table to help tamper the left's "pie in the sky" wishlist, but currently the Republicans aren't trying to make things reasonable. They are 100% trying to kill everything, and both parties are more concerned about near future votes than flushing the country down the toilet in the process. In the end we all get fucked other than taking some misguided pride that our special interest stooge gets to sit in the representative highchair.

I know you are a right leaning independent and wondering what wins look like for you.

 

[hulugu]

Remember the good ole days when Tip O'Neill would go over to the White House and he an Reagan would sit and hammer out a deal and then go tell their parties how it was going to be?

Sure, but everyone in politics along with the American public have decided to hell with bipartisanship. Apparent Republicans are regularly saying "Fuck Biden" (or the hidden "Let's go, Brandon") entirely as an abject attack against the president.

And, of course, this is the Democrats fault, I'm sure, because:

1. Kanye West said that Bush "didn't care about black people,"
2. Or, that YG and Nipsey Hussle made a song FTD or "Fuck Donald Trump"
3. Or, Kathy Griffin's dumb photo.
4. Some other goofy flash-in-the-pan stunt that just gave them an excuse.

However, the reality is that Republicans think bipartisanship is for losers, and have thought so since Newt Gingrich's momentary popularity.

Today, Reagan would be a California Democrat, and Tip O'Neill would be savaged as a communist by the aggressive horde of know-nothings that show up to threaten school boards or tried to take the Capitol.

 

[DT]

Apparent Republicans are regularly saying "Fuck Biden" (or the hidden "Let's go, Brandon") entirely as an abject attack against the president.

That's "Let's go ..." thing is so incredibly stupid, just a vapid, anti-American idiotic thing to say, I mean, I suspect that people who say that, or, for example, put it in a signature on a forum, are weak, dickless fuckwits ...

 

[Herdfan]

Apparent Republicans are regularly saying "Fuck Biden" (or the hidden "Let's go, Brandon") entirely as an abject attack against the president.

No, it's "Fuck Joe Biden". The cadence is off without the "Joe" in there.

And it wasn't started by Republicans, but by college kids who tend to be more liberal, at football games.* I guess even they know what a clown he is.

The "Let's go Brandon" came about when NBC reporter Kelli Stavast was interviewing NASCAR driver Brandon Brown who just won his first race at Talladega. The crowd was loudly chanting "Fuck Joe Biden" and it could be heard in the background on the telecast, so she tried to make light of it by saying they were chanting "Let's Go Brandon."

And from there, a cottage industry was born making t-shirts, mugs etc. So you could say that Biden is helping the economy and putting people to work.

But sure, attack the phrase all the while ignoring the reason it has become a thing which is he has been a trainwreck. And the MSM is finally starting to see it or figures they can't hide it anymore.

* Yes it could have been by Republican college kids, but to get that loud at those stadiums it would have be more than the College Republican'vs club. Would have put it up there, but was driving the struggle bus on punctuation in that sentence already.

 

[Herdfan]

As for the topic of this thread, I certainly remember people over at PRSI mocking those of us (now just me over here) who lambasted the RINO's for not voting with the party.

Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, memories get very short......................

 

[Hrafn]

As for the topic of this thread, I certainly remember people over at PRSI mocking those of us (now just me over here) who lambasted the RINO's for not voting with the party.

Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, memories get very short......................

Once again, dishonest. The D’s have historically worked with the majority R’s and compromised to get some of what they want. With the R’s of the past 40 years, it’s FU.

 

[SuperMatt]

As for the topic of this thread, I certainly remember people over at PRSI mocking those of us (now just me over here) who lambasted the RINO's for not voting with the party.

Yet, when the shoe is on the other foot, memories get very short......................

The difference between somebody like McCain and and somebody like Sinema has been pointed out (in detail) in this thread. Maybe make a separate thread about hurt feelings from things that happened at PRSI? Or at least delve into the similarities and differences between McCain and Manchin and Sinema… but this post IMHO adds nothing to this discussion.

 

[Herdfan]

Once again, dishonest. The D’s have historically worked with the majority R’s and compromised to get some of what they want. With the R’s of the past 40 years, it’s FU.

Really? How many GOP bills did Harry Reid bring to the floor for a vote in the Senate when he was Majority Leader?

I will agree the parties used to work together. Now neither will work with the other for fear of giving them a "win".

 

[Hrafn]

Really? How many GOP bills did Harry Reid bring to the floor for a vote in the Senate when he was Majority Leader?

I will agree the parties used to work together. Now neither will work with the other for fear of giving them a "win".

More R talking bullshit. https://www.factcheck.org/2014/11/boehners-bipartisan-bunk/

 

[JayMysteri0]

And it wasn't started by Republicans, but by college kids who tend to be more liberal, at football games.* I guess even they know what a clown he is.

Clarification. Yes it was started by college kids at a college football game.

Yes, college kids tend to be more liberal.

No. It was NOT by college kids "who tend" to be more liberal.

It was started at college games with students of schools that are very White, some with their own "interesting" history with race.

White Football Fans Chanted 'F--k Joe Biden' on 9/11. At Auburn, It's an American Tradition

College football fans across the country showed their patriotism on 9/11 with an obscene chant. Here is a firsthand account from one College Football blueblood.

www.theroot.com

When 82,745 fans packed into Jordan-Hare Stadium on Saturday to watch Auburn University take on historically Black Alabama State University, I was there.

ASU fans were there.

Like me, many of them didn’t care about the actual football game. Because Alabama State is only 54 miles from Auburn, the Black students, alumni and fans of both schools were there to transform the whitest school in America’s most dominant football conference into an oasis of Black Joy. We were there to watch ASU’s Mighty Marching Hornets. We wanted to see the Stingettes shake a tailfeatherstinger. As an alumnus of Auburn, I can tell you that the least important thing happening in Auburn’s football stadium that day was college football. In Alabama, spending $515,000 to play a historically Black college is a rare occurrence. Auburn’s 5 percent Black student body was now the majority. The usual tailgates had been replaced with cookouts. The smell of Crown Royal and seasoned chicken was in the air.

The white people were there.

Because this game wasn’t a rivalry or a Southeastern Conference game, the white fans were mostly confined to the student section. And instead of celebrating diversity, unity and the American spirit, Auburn students came together for a spontaneous celebration of one of the South’s oldest gridiron traditions:

Whiteness.

These true patriots were not alone. The spontaneously viral chant made an appearance in student sections, tailgates at some of the South’s most prestigious colleges, including Coastal Carolina, West Virginia, Tennessee (the second-whitest college in the SEC) and national champions at the University of Alabama.

Although this stunt might seem like a curious choice for the people who refer to themselves as “patriots,” Auburn’s Black alumni can tell you that this is the college’s version of southern hospitality. Any Black student who spent time at the “Loveliest Village on the Plains” has a story that would make this flashmob of unpatriotic profanity pale in comparison. Besides the buildings named after slaveowners, Confederates and the governor who also served as the Exalted Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan, there was a whole period of time when Auburn University football fans whistled and screamed at the school mascot – an actual Black human being. In fact, someone even coined a phrase for the school’s unique brand of disrespectful behavior toward Black people:

Tradition.

What was interesting was too see who eagerly embraced this action by students at a sporting event.



Followed by what side of the political spectrum that used to lament such talk from others? Now of course because of our society it's a thing that catches on, so it spreads to other avenues. It's clear though for those who champion this, what the sentiment behind it is for many of those who now parrot it. For them it isn't some viral catchy thing, it's them verbally pissing on the ground to once again show who they truly align with despite unconvincing cries of being independent otherwise.

Which of course will inevitably lead to a response of sorts... Where it's migrated to pro football, ...and even golf?

Thing to note is of course what day it started on, just to emphasize all the faux patriotism of all those who continue to do it now.

So while it maybe comforting to hide behind all of this starting from "some crazy college kids", don't you or anyone else fool yourselves more than necessary. No one else is buying the same delusion. It was started by a particular crowd, who empathize a particular strain of thought, and find such actions NOW entertaining. Actions a year or two ago they would have found abhorrent & clutched pearls IF it had happened the way it has now.

I'll take my knee on the way out.

 

[SuperMatt]

But sure, attack the phrase all the while ignoring the reason it has become a thing which is he has been a trainwreck. And the MSM is finally starting to see it or figures they can't hide it anymore.

You are making the assumption that chants at college football games and NASCAR races are evidence that Biden’s presidency is a train wreck. Hmm… Somebody skipped a few steps in their logic homework.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

If they just pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill separate from the second bill, mark my words. The Republicans and the two closeted Republican Democrats will completely kill the second bill or water it down to the point that it has no real meaningful impact on the American people. Remember, the opposing party in Congress to the sitting President can’t let them have any wins that is a positive change for a majority of Americans.

The infrastructure contracts will be a big steaming money pit of corruption on par with our military contracts, probably a lot of the contracts going to the same contractors. There will be no economic relief for the American people. When the fair-weather voters don’t receive any meaningful change (similar to the Obama years) they’ll just volley control back to the other party because they have no faith in either party and that’s the only disapproval option you have in our duopoly.

Aside from maybe herdfan and 10 other people total, absolutely nobody is going to be satisfied receiving a “I asked for economic relief and all I got was this bipartisan agreement t-shirt” shirt.

Remember 77 million people voted for Trump, and that was during the tail end of his term, not some distant memory. They were fully on board with his behavior. I don’t think there is a lot of “Now that I think about it….” reflection going on right now that would make them withdraw their support and I have no faith that there’s enough “1/6 was a bridge too far” voters to decide an election.

 

[JayMysteri0]

If they just pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill separate from the second bill, mark my words. The Republicans and the two closeted Republican Democrats will completely kill the second bill or water it down to the point that it has no real meaningful impact on the American people. Remember, the opposing party in Congress to the sitting President can’t let them have any wins that is a positive change for a majority of Americans.

The infrastructure contracts will be a big steaming money pit of corruption on par with our military contracts, probably a lot of the contracts going to the same contractors. There will be no economic relief for the American people. When the fair-weather voters don’t receive any meaningful change (similar to the Obama years) they’ll just volley control back to the other party because they have no faith in either party and that’s the only disapproval option you have in our duopoly.

Aside from maybe herdfan and 10 other people total, absolutely nobody is going to be satisfied receiving a “I asked for economic relief and all I got was this bipartisan agreement t-shirt” shirt.

Remember 77 million people voted for Trump, and that was during the tail end of his term, not some distant memory. They were fully on board with his behavior. I don’t think there is a lot of “Now that I think about it….” reflection going on right now that would make them withdraw their support and I have no faith that there’s enough “1/6 was a bridge too far” voters to decide an election.

That's pretty much why the progressives have taken the stand they have. There was an agreement that if one passes both pass, but we've seen justifiably that any trust that moderate dems will keep their ( we don't even have to factor the repubs in this conversation ) word is completely gone. It's expected moderates will take the first part & run back home claiming victory, then let the second part they agreed to wither & die so they won't have to face that republican opposition.

So as Nancy Pelosi has warned now, progressives will have to accept a 2nd part that is NOT as grand as they first & second asked. Hoping to placate Manchin & Sinema, who the moderates will quietly ride with. Only problem, as I've said before, any concession given to Manchin, will lead to another more unacceptable concession & so on. Supposedly Sinema made her own ridiculous concession, only to quickly claim she did no such thing. So Sinema is still pointless shell dressed in new designer clothes & dressed up as a former 'd' in name only.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

That's pretty much why the progressives have taken the stand they have. There was an agreement that if one passes both pass, but we've seen justifiably that any trust that moderate dems will keep their ( we don't even have to factor the repubs in this conversation ) word is completely gone. It's expected moderates will take the first part & run back home claiming victory, then let the second part they agreed to wither & die so they won't have to face that republican opposition.

So as Nancy Pelosi has warned now, progressives will have to accept a 2nd part that is NOT as grand as they first & second asked. Hoping to placate Manchin & Sinema, who the moderates will quietly ride with. Only problem, as I've said before, any concession given to Manchin, will lead to another more unacceptable concession & so on. Supposedly Sinema made her own ridiculous concession, only to quickly claim she did no such thing. So Sinema is still pointless shell dressed in new designer clothes & dressed up as a former 'd' in name only.

That’s why I said in another post, every member of Congress needs to be on record on what they specifically are against in the bill, and not some blanket statement like the total cost, national debt, or becoming an entitled welfare state. Once on record their voters can decide if they are happy with that or not in the next election.

Government control is up for Democrats to lose and if they want to guarantee that loss then get nothing done for the American people. Take your bipartisan infrastructure bill as a parting prize that nobody is going to give you credit for. Then watch Republicans ram their agenda through with little meaningful opposition.

 

[Herdfan]

Clarification. Yes it was started by college kids at a college football game.

Yes, college kids tend to be more liberal.

No. It was NOT by college kids "who tend" to be more liberal.

It was started at college games with students of schools that are very White, some with their own "interesting" history with race.

Hey, I admitted I was on the struggle bus with the punctuation in that sentence.

If they just pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill separate from the second bill, mark my words. The Republicans and the two closeted Republican Democrats will completely kill the second bill or water it down to the point that it has no real meaningful impact on the American people. Remember, the opposing party in Congress to the sitting President can’t let them have any wins that is a positive change for a majority of Americans.

There is an easy solution to that. Win more seats in 2022. It will still be there in a year and if you win enough seats, then it will pass. Do you not think the Dems can pick up 2 measly Senate seats? And hold on to their majority in the House?

And sadly your last sentence works both ways.

 

[lizkat]

Really? How many GOP bills did Harry Reid bring to the floor for a vote in the Senate when he was Majority Leader?

I will agree the parties used to work together. Now neither will work with the other for fear of giving them a "win".

Noncooperation becomes more likely after every cycle in which the Ds have compromised in good faith expecting reciprocity when the time came, but then that clock seems not only to stop but to fall off the mantelpiece between congressional sessions.

Bottom line the willingness to reciprocate has evaporated except where the Rs figure without a get-along-go-along on a few spendingi tems, the veil will be stripped off the myth that red states generate enough dough to cover even minimal social contracts with the human beings who elected those Republican governors or legislators yet again. Hmm, can't have that happening. But aside from those scraps, the Rs' motto is No Compromise, and it's the main reason that the centerposts (particularly in the House) had kept moving to the right ever since Gingrich and his godforsake Contract foron America...

So now when progressives finally call their own party to account about that, the Rs start whipping the idea of the progressive wing of the Ds as obstructive and above all "divisive" --- cautioning any Dem leader who will listen for ten seconds that the progressives among the Ds will turn the country communist. Mind you many Rs would call Dwight Eisenhower a commie at this point. In his day only the far fringe right like the John Birch Sciety guys and a few other oilpatch Texans ever called Ike a commie.

As for obstructionist tendencies, the Rs have amnesia on some memorable Mitch McConnell moves, not least openly swearing to block Obama's agenda to the max possible, and denying now US Attorney General Merrick Garland so much as a SCOTUS confirmation hearing never mind a floor vote. In fact in recent years Mitch has made Harry Reid look like a down-the-middle kinda guy.