A message to conservative parents

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I can understand somewhat changing your views from liberal to more conservative once the cold harsh realities of life start kicking in and you no longer have the time or energy to be idealistic, but it’s not like liberal them won the war. Some skirmishes, yes, but not the war. Nobody on the left can say “we achieved all our objectives but it turns out it didn’t produce the utopia we thought it would. So we were wrong”. Going hard right later in life is like having a house infested with roaches but once you fail to exterminate them you get in your car to go out and stomp on ant hills because you’ve been told those ants are the real reason you have a roach problem and you believe it.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I can understand somewhat changing your views from liberal to more conservative once the cold harsh realities of life start kicking in and you no longer have the time or energy to be idealistic, but it’s not like liberal them won the war.

Both sides are idiotically idealistic. And yes, one way or another I also fall into it, it’s like a black hole. I wish that American politics stopped this tale of false bipolarism in favor of some realism (still guided by ideals of course, but not blinded by them).

I am appalled to see the reactions from some of my conservative friends when I say that I do not oppose a public health system, exactly as I am appalled to see the reactions from some of my liberal friends when I say that I (an immigrant) am in favor of strict immigration laws. It’s like they have a checklist of 10 items and if you don’t align almost perfectly then you’re the enemy.

 

[Renzatic]

...exactly as I am appalled to see the reactions from some of my liberal friends when I say that I (an immigrant) am in favor of strict immigration laws. It’s like they have a checklist of 10 items and if you don’t align almost perfectly then you’re the enemy.

I've said it before. Yeah, we do need solid border security. For a variety of reasons, it's an important facet for the security of the nation as a whole. Thing is, there's a very large difference between advocating for higher security standards, and the pointlessly cruel, punitive draconian bullshit we saw under the Trump regime.

 

[Renzatic]

I love Facebook.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Both sides are idiotically idealistic. And yes, one way or another I also fall into it, it’s like a black hole. I wish that American politics stopped this tale of false bipolarism in favor of some realism (still guided by ideals of course, but not blinded by them).

I am appalled to see the reactions from some of my conservative friends when I say that I do not oppose a public health system, exactly as I am appalled to see the reactions from some of my liberal friends when I say that I (an immigrant) am in favor of strict immigration laws. It’s like they have a checklist of 10 items and if you don’t align almost perfectly then you’re the enemy.

I think the extremes amplified by the media drive us more to our side’s extremes. I’m fully vaccinated and have a largely “STFU and just get vaccinated” mentality, but I also find it concerning that the major pharmaceutical industry is being touted as the be all end all saviors to go unquestioned. They’ll probably be pushing boosters for the next 50 years. But its because of the anti-vaxers driven by either ignorance or a God-based death wish that we retreat to being 100% uncritical of the pharmaceutical industry and 100% skeptical of any alternatives they can’t profit from, including the patent waiver.

 

[Herdfan]

I've said it before. Yeah, we do need solid border security. For a variety of reasons, it's an important facet for the security of the nation as a whole. Thing is, there's a very large difference between advocating for higher security standards, and the pointlessly cruel, punitive draconian bullshit we saw under the Trump regime.

Regardless of whether or not you think a wall/physical barrier works, do you consider it cruel, punitive and draconian?

 

[Renzatic]

Regardless of whether or not you think a wall/physical barrier works, do you consider it cruel, punitive and draconian?

No, just a waste of money.

Separating asylum seekers from their children to dissuade others from doing the same is though.

 

[Herdfan]

No, just a waste of money.

Separating asylum seekers from their children to dissuade others from doing the same is though.

So what can we do to discourage them?

I understand that some think a wall is a waste of money, but in the scheme of government spending, it is a drop in the bucket. So why not give it an actual try?

 

[Renzatic]

So what can we do to discourage them?

You do know seeking asylum is perfectly legal, right? They turn themselves in to the border authorities, and petition for a visa.

I understand that some think a wall is a waste of money, but in the scheme of government spending, it is a drop in the bucket. So why not give it an actual try?

Instead of using that money to build something that can be climbed over, dug under, or knocked down, why not use it to hire more border agents, and better equip them?

 

[Herdfan]

You do know seeking asylum is perfectly legal, right? They turn themselves in to the border authorities, and petition for a visa.

I do. But not at any place where they wish to cross. It must be at a point of entry.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I think the extremes amplified by the media drive us more to our side’s extremes. I’m fully vaccinated and have a largely “STFU and just get vaccinated” mentality, but I also find it concerning that the major pharmaceutical industry is being touted as the be all end all saviors to go unquestioned. They’ll probably be pushing boosters for the next 50 years. But its because of the anti-vaxers driven by either ignorance or a God-based death wish that we retreat to being 100% uncritical of the pharmaceutical industry and 100% skeptical of any alternatives they can’t profit from, including the patent waiver.

I totally agree with you.
On the boosters: I’d love for those in charge to actually say what’s the long term policy with the knowledge that we’ll have Covid variants forever. It seems that no leader wants to actually tackle this item, instead they go for short term half assed solutions.

Personally in the US I’d give a huge (indirect) tax break to those vaccinated. It’s something that the presidency can do without congress. Considering the cost of Covid, it would be worth it.

 

[NT1440]

I think part of the problem is conservatives have been fed "you work hard and pay your taxes" for probably at last a half century as some kind of affirmation that, that makes them exceptional or a hero. It's neither, but it certainly stopped from fighting for what is better for more people and therefor the country. Just focus on working hard and paying your taxes. What's your reward for that? Jack shit. This may come as a shock to some, but many liberals work hard and pay their taxes. They just don't believe that by doing that alone is going to make the world a better place and they get to live like royalty.

Is that the message though? Work hard yes, but we’re decades into “taxation is theft” on that side.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Is that the message though? Work hard yes, but we’re decades into “taxation is theft” on that side.

Taxation is not theft, but the increasing price of bacon is worrying me.

 

[Herdfan]

Taxation is not theft, but the increasing price of bacon is worrying me.

Is that because you really love bacon or rising prices in general?

 

[yaxomoxay]

Is that because you really love bacon or rising prices in general?

Bacon is bacon. Don’t mess with it.

 

[rdrr]

So what can we do to discourage them?

I understand that some think a wall is a waste of money, but in the scheme of government spending, it is a drop in the bucket. So why not give it an actual try?

The initial cost yes is a drop in the bucket. But the constant upkeep and repairs on the wall is by far what I am against. Especially since it can be beaten by low cost solutions.

Not to mention the fact that to accomplish the task of building the wall, the US government wanted to take land by eminent domain, which I feel is complete bullshit.

 

[Renzatic]

Bacon is bacon. Don’t mess with it.

That pic would probably work better if you didn't run the bacon through a posterize filter. Makes it look like something that's not bacon.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I totally agree with you.
On the boosters: I’d love for those in charge to actually say what’s the long term policy with the knowledge that we’ll have Covid variants forever. It seems that no leader wants to actually tackle this item, instead they go for short term half assed solutions.

Personally in the US I’d give a huge (indirect) tax break to those vaccinated. It’s something that the presidency can do without congress. Considering the cost of Covid, it would be worth it.

I recently heard the collective wealth of the country’s top billionaires grew by about $3 trillion during Covid. If we redistributed that wealth (Ahhhh!) it would come out to about $9,000 per person. I’m willing to bet that vaccination and precaution rates would skyrocket if people were told they would get a check for $9k if they managed to not die from covid.

And yes, that is taking money away from the rich, but I’d like to see what $3 trillion in hard work in about a year by less than 100 people looks like. If it doesn’t seem justified then they will just have to learn to live off the billions they had before covid while the rest of the country becomes instant thousandaires and somehow turns that into a more healthy economy.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Is that the message though? Work hard yes, but we’re decades into “taxation is theft” on that side.

Listened to a podcast over the weekend talking about how “the economy” or “economists agree” didn’t really come into politics until after the great depression and how it’s largely about how the wealthy are doing but everybody below that thinks it's talking about them too despite evidence in their face to the contrary. “Hey, I haven’t gotten a substantial raise in decades and I’m struggling to pay my mounting bills, but the news says the economy is doing great. So I guess I’m doing great.” I think “taxation is theft” fits right into that same narrative.

 

[yaxomoxay]

@Chew Toy McCoy For $9K I’d add to the covid the rabies vaccine, which I am told it’s very painful.

At any rate, financial incentives would help a lot in my opinion.