A message to conservative parents

[Huntn]

I totally agree with you.
On the boosters: I’d love for those in charge to actually say what’s the long term policy with the knowledge that we’ll have Covid variants forever. It seems that no leader wants to actually tackle this item, instead they go for short term half assed solutions.

Personally in the US I’d give a huge (indirect) tax break to those vaccinated. It’s something that the presidency can do without congress. Considering the cost of Covid, it would be worth it.

You sound reasonable to me and I don’t mean to pull a fast one, but I remember a time when I heard from your corner about how Trump was not so bad, or they are all the same, something along those lines.

Now I have no desire to start any back and forth about the merits of Mr. Dispicable or what was said on another site but I will make a general statement about conservatism in the US. Don’t consider this a personal attack, because it is not.

• Conservatism in the USA is no longer what it was 60 years ago, it has broken bad.
• The End Justifies The Means and Win At All Costs is the controlling standards, the only standard that matters to those in charge of the Right:
• Deceit rules.
• Lies are smart, not deceitful.
• Keep the base sated and content on our sweet little lies.
• Truth is no longer valued by the conservatives movement, those in charge.
• Truth is dangerous and must be hidden when it does not serve the desired end.
• This includes making up BS ideas like CRT so they can not only hide the truth, but ban books and can expand this to any lie that needs telling for the desired end.
• It also excludes restoring the rightful hierarchy of races, and protection of white privaledge.
• Democracy the very corner stone of this country, must be squelched if it does not serve the desired end.
• And last but not least, the rules are being changed as I type so those Patriotic Republicans in charge of certain States can toss the results of any election they don’t like the outcome of for any bull shit lie they want to manufacture.

 

[yaxomoxay]

You sound reasonable to me and I don’t mean to pull a fast one, but I remember a time when I heard from your corner about how Trump was not so bad, or they are all the same, something along those lines.

Now I have no desire to start any back and forth about the merits of Mr. Dispicable or what was said on another site but I will make a general statement about conservatism in the US. Don’t consider this a personal attack, because it is not.

• Conservatism in the USA is no longer what it was 60 years ago, it has broken bad.
• The End Justifies The Means and Win At All Costs is the controlling standards, the only standard that matters to those in charge of the Right:
• Deceit rules.
• Lies are smart, not deceitful.
• Keep the base sated and content on our sweet little lies.
• Truth is no longer valued by the conservatives movement, those in charge.
• Truth is dangerous and must be hidden when it does not serve the desired end.
• This includes making up BS ideas like CRT so they can not only hide the truth, but they can expand this to any lie that needs telling for the desired end.
• It also excludes restoring the rightful hierarchy of races, and protection of white privaledge.
• Democracy the very corner stone of this country, must be squelched if it does not serve the desired end.
• And last but not least, the rules are being changed as I type so those Patriotic Republicans in charge of certain States can toss the results of any election they don’t like the outcome of for any bull shit lie they want to manufacture.

I certainly don’t want to discuss Trump (or Biden), but I do respect your post and the time you took to write it.

One thing I’ll tell you, and I don’t want to start a back and forth myself so take it as a “final statement”: January 6th pissed me off. A lot. It truly pissed me off to a level I had no idea it existed. Most of the conservatives I know in real life also hate what happened on that day, so I’ll take it as a sign that decency is not dead. But again, I am pissed since they day (and while I am pissed at a “team” in particular, I don’t fail to see other issues connected to it, including media and social media). Also, and I want just to say it for the record, I had some (not many) conversations with some conservatives friends that are proud about that day and I told them - in real life; I do not engage on social media - that there is one thing they have to acknowledge: the stupidity of it. I mean, just the stupidity, no need to get into the politics of it (and I vehemently, vocally, loudly disagree with it anyways). When they ask: “why is it stupid? It was a great show of the spirit of this great country!” clearly hinting at some faux 1776 spirit, I explain that when you do a “revolution” or a “riot” or whatever-in-1776-spirit you do it to the very end, because the price you’ll pay for doing just a part of it will still be close to the full price of going the full way. Half assed revolutions are the worst of the worst, a sign of cowardice and nothing related to the spirit of American freedom.

You and I might disagree on many things, but rest be assured that I am for old style, boring, non-twitter driven politics.

And rest be assured of another thing. I hear that Trump might run in 2024. His choice, he’s free to attempt it. I won’t vote for him; not at the primaries, not at the general elections. He had his chance, he burned it, “thanks for your service now you’re past.”

 

[DT]

And rest be assured of another thing. I hear that Trump might run in 2024. His choice, he’s free to attempt it. I won’t vote for him; not at the primaries, not at the general elections.

Well, at least now I won't have to beat you mercilessly if we ever meet in person.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Well, at least now I won't have to beat you mercilessly if we ever meet in person.

I am still in for a good fight. Loser pays for the beer.

 

[Renzatic]

I am still in for a good fight. Loser pays for the beer.

Hell, if you're offering free beer, I'll happily kick your ass!

 

[yaxomoxay]

Hell, if you're offering free beer, I'll happily kick your ass!

Get ready to pay the bill!

 

[SuperMatt]

I do. But not at any place where they wish to cross. It must be at a point of entry.

That’s not how current asylum law works.

To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process you must be physically present in the United States. You may apply for asylum regardless of how you arrived in the United States or your current immigration status.

That’s for an affirmative claim. You can also apply for a defensive claim in response to removal proceedings.

A defensive application for asylum occurs when you request asylum as a defense against removal from the United States. For asylum processing to be defensive, you must be in removal proceedings in immigration court with the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR).

This claim is usually in response to getting caught crossing in the wrong place. You can read all the details here:

Obtaining Asylum in the United States | USCIS

ALERT: Court Order on Circumvention of Lawful Pathways Final Rule On Aug

www.uscis.gov

 

[Renzatic]

Get ready to pay the bill!

Wait? You're gonna fight back? As in I'm gonna get hit too?

...nevermind.

 

[Renzatic]

Just so you all know, I’m the Matt in that shot above. I spend a lot of time on Facebook egging people on.

 

[lizkat]

Yet people who had the merits of Christianity drilled into them as kids, of what it means to be a good Christian and human beings, that has been thrown in the trash. Maybe it was Donald Trump’s poison kiss that turned them? In any case the hypocrisy spot light is shining brightly on a substantial portion of the group who call themselves “Christians”. Are there any prominent Christians groups that tout their liberal views and flat out reject Donald Trump? I’ve not heard of any, but not saying they don’t exist.

Maybe they don't tout their liberal views per se, but there are lots of Christians in a number of denominations who still tend to leave politics out of their practice of Christianity day to day out in the public square, e.g., running food pantries, soup kitchens, serving to shelter the homeless overnight in bad weather or from domestic abuse, etc... the same as congregations of other religions (or, no religion) in the USA. And there are some who just figure that aspiring to follow the Golden Rule is a fine substitute for a religious focus on how to relate to other human beings.

Of course because they don't get out there with a politically oriented bullhorn, the members of such congregations don't have a high collective profile, especially in the secular (and today highly politicized) social media platforms.

But that isn't their point, see. The point is to walk in real life what their respective doctrines outline as part of keeping the faith.

I would say that individually a lot of the members of such congregations do participate in social media, including on political issues, but are maybe not so much into trolling each other or stereotyping each other's takes on the issues as extreme.

 

[Roller]

I totally agree with you.
On the boosters: I’d love for those in charge to actually say what’s the long term policy with the knowledge that we’ll have Covid variants forever. It seems that no leader wants to actually tackle this item, instead they go for short term half assed solutions.

Personally in the US I’d give a huge (indirect) tax break to those vaccinated. It’s something that the presidency can do without congress. Considering the cost of Covid, it would be worth it.

It's impossible to articulate a long-term (past one year, say) policy since the pandemic's trajectory is impossible to predict. Vaccines provide the best exit ramp, but only to the extent that they can be distributed world-wide. One leading theory of why Omicron is so different than previous lineages is that it developed in chronically-infected individuals. That's why getting to everyone is so important. Other factors also make forecasting difficult. For example, will the anti-virals be effective in the real world, or will other drugs be developed? Finally, I'll note that there are often legitimate disagreements between people with the requisite expertise to participate in a meaningful dialog about COVID-19.

I now return you to the regularly-scheduled thread...

 

[Huntn]

Maybe they don't tout their liberal views per se, but there are lots of Christians in a number of denominations who still tend to leave politics out of their practice of Christianity day to day out in the public square, e.g., running food pantries, soup kitchens, serving to shelter the homeless overnight in bad weather or from domestic abuse, etc... the same as congregations of other religions (or, no religion) in the USA. And there are some who just figure that aspiring to follow the Golden Rule is a fine substitute for a religious focus on how to relate to other human beings.

Of course because they don't get out there with a politically oriented bullhorn, the members of such congregations don't have a high collective profile, especially in the secular (and today highly politicized) social media platforms.

But that isn't their point, see. The point is to walk in real life what their respective doctrines outline as part of keeping the faith.

I would say that individually a lot of the members of such congregations do participate in social media, including on political issues, but are maybe not so much into trolling each other or stereotyping each other's takes on the issues as extreme.

What we badly need is the mainstream Christian establishment to denounce the likes of any Donald Trump or Surrogate. How can anyone who believes turn a blind eye to the Devil? We have a close friend who is in there with evangicals (I’m not actually sure of her denomination) I don’t think it is mainstream, but we don’t spend much time pickinhpg her brain about it, but we do know she has shied away from getting vaccinated because of their anti-Vax BS.

 

[SuperMatt]

What we badly need is the mainstream Christian establishment to denounce the likes of any Donald Trump or Surrogate. How can anyone who believes turn a blind eye to the Devil? We have a close friend who is in there with evangicals (I’m not actually sure of her denomination) I don’t think it is mainstream, but we don’t spend much time pickinhpg her brain about it, but we do know she has shied away from getting vaccinated because of their anti-Vax BS.

“Mainstream” Christian denominations are more liberal in their policy leanings than evangelicals (although it varies). And in a number of such Churches in my experience, politics isn’t discussed at church… the idea being that such discussions are divisive and religion should transcend politics.

In the evangelical church, it’s ALL about politics. It’s about cult of personality too. They love it when their pastor gets famous, and then thousands want to come to the church and they start “satellite” churches all centered around that one pastor. It doesn’t surprise me that congregants accustomed to such a system would rally around a figure like Trump.

The other big flaw in the evangelical church (IMO) is that they focus almost solely on evangelism (yes it’s in the name) and give almost no time to actually learning how to be a better person through learning about their faith in a deeper way. The “technical” term for that is catechesis, a word I doubt any evangelical ever heard of.

 

[Huntn]

“Mainstream” Christian denominations are more liberal in their policy leanings than evangelicals (although it varies). And in a number of such Churches in my experience, politics isn’t discussed at church… the idea being that such discussions are divisive and religion should transcend politics.

In the evangelical church, it’s ALL about politics. It’s about cult of personality too. They love it when their pastor gets famous, and then thousands want to come to the church and they start “satellite” churches all centered around that one pastor. It doesn’t surprise me that congregants accustomed to such a system would rally around a figure like Trump.

The other big flaw in the evangelical church (IMO) is that they focus almost solely on evangelism (yes it’s in the name) and give almost no time to actually learning how to be a better person through learning about their faith in a deeper way. The “technical” term for that is catechesis, a word I doubt any evangelical ever heard of.

Turning a blind eye to the Devil, is not a good practice for serious Christians while you country is on the verge of imploding....

 

[lizkat]

Turning a blind eye to the Devil, is not a good practice for serious Christians while you country is on the verge of imploding....

Still, there's a difference between "not turning a blind eye to the Devil" and not announcing that BECAUSE you are a member of fill-in-the-blank liberal-leaning parish up the road, THAT's why you therefore denounce the Devil and all his pomp in the form of Trump and his white supremacist cultist followers and wannabe inheritors of his autocratic mantle.

It's what I meant in my previous post in suggesting that Christians and people of other faiths may be quite active in real-life politics, and in politics on social media as well (which can be two quite different things).

But, they do it without linking politics and the pulpit.

Mainstream denominations in the USA tend to buy into separation of church and state. To the extent some of that doesn't work for some of the parishioners on some social or political issues, the USA at least has seen disagreement veer in some cases into actual schisms, for example in some Episcopal parishes, over issues like gay marriage or gay married bishops and so forth. Some groups of Episcopalians left their parishes to join Anglican ones, and some parishes chose to secede from Episcopalian dioceses and aligned instead with the very conservative Anglican church of Uganda.

But for the most part those who stayed behind seem to manage to work with a combination of "love thy neighbor" and "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" -- which in the case of local interactions boils down to leaving politics at the door when taking a dish to a potluck supper at the church hall. In rural areas, where there is often at least one old mainstream Methodist, Baptist or Episcopal church in every little village, those events and that church hall are open to the community for social events, so it's just an extension of scripture and common small-village courtesy to leave politics AND preaching out of that part of the life of the church itself.

I grant you that social media doesn't translate that stuff very well, and also that it's entirely possible that someone who greets you as a neighbor at a village fundraising breakfast --at the firehall or church hall-- knows full well you lean left and might even be inclined to troll you from the far right on Twitter or FB.

And the same folks who leave politics out of church suppers open to the community might well be yelling at each other in some future town council meeting. They're just not claiming to make their points in the name of their religion's view of God or Devil while waving a particular version of the Bible. Usually it's more like they're waving a copy of the agenda, or some editorial in the local paper about an economic issue. And they're not always on the same page with each other, regardless of their religion and how they practice it. To me that's what separates them from Trump cultists.

 

[thekev]

I love Facebook.

View attachment 10227

Did that person really fall for it, or were they simply a trolling accomplice?

 

[Huntn]

Still, there's a difference between "not turning a blind eye to the Devil" and not announcing that BECAUSE you are a member of fill-in-the-blank liberal-leaning parish up the road, THAT's why you therefore denounce the Devil and all his pomp in the form of Trump and his white supremacist cultist followers and wannabe inheritors of his autocratic mantle.

It's what I meant in my previous post in suggesting that Christians and people of other faiths may be quite active in real-life politics, and in politics on social media as well (which can be two quite different things).

But, they do it without linking politics and the pulpit.

Mainstream denominations in the USA tend to buy into separation of church and state. To the extent some of that doesn't work for some of the parishioners on some social or political issues, the USA at least has seen disagreement veer in some cases into actual schisms, for example in some Episcopal parishes, over issues like gay marriage or gay married bishops and so forth. Some groups of Episcopalians left their parishes to join Anglican ones, and some parishes chose to secede from Episcopalian dioceses and aligned instead with the very conservative Anglican church of Uganda.

But for the most part those who stayed behind seem to manage to work with a combination of "love thy neighbor" and "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's" -- which in the case of local interactions boils down to leaving politics at the door when taking a dish to a potluck supper at the church hall. In rural areas, where there is often at least one old mainstream Methodist, Baptist or Episcopal church in every little village, those events and that church hall are open to the community for social events, so it's just an extension of scripture and common small-village courtesy to leave politics AND preaching out of that part of the life of the church itself.

I grant you that social media doesn't translate that stuff very well, and also that it's entirely possible that someone who greets you as a neighbor at a village fundraising breakfast --at the firehall or church hall-- knows full well you lean left and might even be inclined to troll you from the far right on Twitter or FB.

And the same folks who leave politics out of church suppers open to the community might well be yelling at each other in some future town council meeting. They're just not claiming to make their points in the name of their religion's view of God or Devil while waving a particular version of the Bible. Usually it's more like they're waving a copy of the agenda, or some editorial in the local paper about an economic issue. And they're not always on the same page with each other, regardless of their religion and how they practice it. To me that's what separates them from Trump cultists.

A great deal if not all of the religious news about Trump MAGA is support for Trump. Really I just want to know if their are hordes of Christian’s against the likes of Trump, MAGA, Deceit, Corruption, and the threat to our democracy, and I have no clue if there are. If we could find a statistic about the “Christian” community in the USA, how does this group break out for or against the Devil?

REPORT: Catholic Leaders’ Support For Trump and MAGA Has Driven Away Church Members

When Donald Trump was elected in 2016, the Catholic Church suffered an exodus of members seeking new spiritual homes, according to a report by the National Catholic Reporter. The fact that Trump was embraced by some Catholic leaders dismayed some of the faithful, who began looking elsewhere, Raw...

www.politicalflare.com

According to this article, single issue voters: pro-abortion. Yet they appear to be oh so ready to sell their souls in the bargain.

Why Christians support Trump | COMMENTARY

I am increasingly dismayed by the number of Catholics who support President Trump. At the March for Life earlier this year, most of those participating were not only “pro-life,” but wer…

www.baltimoresun.com

This article says Trump Christian support is based on pro-abortion and him declaring a truce on Christian churches, huh? I suppose this means the Trump con of turning the country into a Christian Theocracy.

The Coming Christian Reckoning

The twilight of Trumpism compels conservative believers to face hard facts

www.theamericanconservative.com

 

[BigMcGuire]

I certainly don’t want to discuss Trump (or Biden), but I do respect your post and the time you took to write it.

One thing I’ll tell you, and I don’t want to start a back and forth myself so take it as a “final statement”: January 6th pissed me off. A lot. It truly pissed me off to a level I had no idea it existed. Most of the conservatives I know in real life also hate what happened on that day, so I’ll take it as a sign that decency is not dead. But again, I am pissed since they day (and while I am pissed at a “team” in particular, I don’t fail to see other issues connected to it, including media and social media). Also, and I want just to say it for the record, I had some (not many) conversations with some conservatives friends that are proud about that day and I told them - in real life; I do not engage on social media - that there is one thing they have to acknowledge: the stupidity of it. I mean, just the stupidity, no need to get into the politics of it (and I vehemently, vocally, loudly disagree with it anyways). When they ask: “why is it stupid? It was a great show of the spirit of this great country!” clearly hinting at some faux 1776 spirit, I explain that when you do a “revolution” or a “riot” or whatever-in-1776-spirit you do it to the very end, because the price you’ll pay for doing just a part of it will still be close to the full price of going the full way. Half assed revolutions are the worst of the worst, a sign of cowardice and nothing related to the spirit of American freedom.

You and I might disagree on many things, but rest be assured that I am for old style, boring, non-twitter driven politics.

And rest be assured of another thing. I hear that Trump might run in 2024. His choice, he’s free to attempt it. I won’t vote for him; not at the primaries, not at the general elections. He had his chance, he burned it, “thanks for your service now you’re past.”

I was surprised how much backlash I got for condemning January 6th from conservative friends/family. As if it was ok to do that after everything else that happened. Undermining the Government that you claim to love and support (and loudly say you'll die for) is horrific. Ok, there's reasons why we allow our civilians to be armed but the US Government hasn't done anything to justify a revolution against it - just because republicans loss an election. And holey hell - just me stating that - I lost my republican card and any conservative cred I had with most of the conservatives I knew. Got called a leftist, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Covid was the last straw for me. Seeing how local churches and other conservatives treated dying Americans (laughing at them)? That ended it for me. Registered independent. I still consider myself a conservative but I guess I'm not according to most conservatives I know just because I give a crap about 788,000 Americans dying and thinking that encouraging riots against our Government is a bad thing...

Your words above - perfect. Very well written and agreed completely.

 

[Renzatic]

Did that person really fall for it, or were they simply a trolling accomplice?

They fell for it.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

What we badly need is the mainstream Christian establishment to denounce the likes of any Donald Trump or Surrogate. How can anyone who believes turn a blind eye to the Devil? We have a close friend who is in there with evangicals (I’m not actually sure of her denomination) I don’t think it is mainstream, but we don’t spend much time pickinhpg her brain about it, but we do know she has shied away from getting vaccinated because of their anti-Vax BS.

I was raised Catholic but stopped going to church on the regular over 20 years ago. I occasionally go with my parents a couple times a year. I’ve never seen politics be a big part of the mass. The closest it’s gotten is acknowledging we live in divisive times and we should focus on the best outcome for the most people, especially the poor, but it’s never been attacks on parties or specific politicians. The priests seem keenly aware that there is probably a diverse mix of political beliefs in their congregation.

But maybe you need a different type message when God says you need a custom mansion or private jet. You know the saying that the loudest anti-gay activists are probably themselves gay. I'm of the belief that the loudest firebrand preachers are probably atheists duping their followers to empty their bank accounts. In that regard it's no surprise that they also preach the gospel of Trump, the grand wizard of conmen.