Pumbaa
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Quite generous of you to call it “attempting to stop the madness”.
Donald Trump 2024 Presidential Campaign Announcement Nov. 15
- Thread starter GermanSuplex
- Start date
lizkat
Watching March roll out real winter
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Hell, Trump can't even ponder the idea of someone ELSE announcing a run for prez without getting himself into more trouble. And as we all know, nothing he touches ends up free of eventual reason for scrutiny
For instance, Trump's rather astounding riffs about DeSantis' 2018 election to the Florida governorship have now generated a formal inquiry to the DoJ. An official in the Florida government, the current commisioner of agriculture, was on the ballot that year herself. In a letter to Garland, she acknowledges there were some recounts in Florida (which is normal enough in any state) but she now formally asks for investigation of Trump's claims of election meddling and involvement of FBI or DoJ in the outcome of the 2018 Florida governor's race.
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1592170232361242624/
All this bc Trump opened his mouth trying to belittle Ron DeSantis, the currently perceived frontrunner for the GOP in the 2024 presidential race. Trump is always going to be a problem for the GOP now because he thinks he is still The One The Only who deserves the spotlight. He'll be a problem for his lawyers for the same damn reason, and the fact that he doesn't seem to care if the spotlight puts him in more trouble.
mac_in_tosh
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I think we should distinguish between normal cognitive slowdown associated with aging and dementia. Even so, I would hope Biden would recognize it would be best not to seek a second term and I don't think he's the type to want to cling to power at all cost like Trump.
mac_in_tosh
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If Trump does secure their nomination for president in 2024 he will probably lose, based on recent election trends. If he doesn't get it, he will graciously accept defeat, congratulate the winner and offer to help him/her in any way he can.
NOT - He will claim fraud and run as an independent. That will take away enough votes to insure the GOP candidate will lose. Such is the GOP's dilemma, one which they brought on themselves by hitching their wagon to someone they knew was dishonest and incompetent.
shadow puppet
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I'm not a DeSantis fan but I'll give him this: He's a very good orator. Reference the video at the link where he breaks his silence re: Trump's latest attacks.
www.mediaite.com
It would definitely be interesting seeing a debate between DeSantis and say, Buttegieg. Both know their way around a podium.
DeSantis Breaks Silence on Trump's Attacks: 'Check Out the Scoreboard!'
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R) broke his silence on the repeated attacks he's been facing from former President Donald Trump since his commanding victory in the 2022 midterm elections.
www.mediaite.com
It would definitely be interesting seeing a debate between DeSantis and say, Buttegieg. Both know their way around a podium.
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Oy, where to start.
Trump bragged about a cognitive test as if he had accomplished something. Stood there for a minute in front of the world wondering aloud if you can inject disinfectant. Pushed unrpoven drugs. Lies to a remarkable degree... and not just normal political tweaking of facts, but easily disproven, bald-faced lies. He can't stay on message and yammers about himself on end. Calls everyone names and speaks in hyperbole.
I don't think Trump has cognitive decline, I think he's fucking crazy. I don't care if Biden trips up on a word or sometimes mumbles for two seconds before getting back on target.
You're focusing on cognitive impairment, of which the argument as it pertains to Biden is pure conjecture because he's 80 and stutters. I'm focused on Trump because he seems unstable, stupid and lacking any basic decency. There's no comparison.
lizkat
Watching March roll out real winter
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Gotta love some of these Rs still trying to find their way through today's calendar options
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1592580200730329088/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1592580200730329088/
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Worst case, Biden falls back on his cabinet and other people he trusts. Trump only falls back on the voices in his head regardless of what kind of mental challenge he currently is or isn’t experiencing.
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I would say Buttigieg would prevail, without even breaking a sweat. With DeSatis flummoxed.
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Sounds like less people are willing to signup to be the target of a future federal investigation, including some of Trump's own kids. Can't say I blame them. He really should slow the roll in committing new crimes before he's cleared of the first round.
Somebody should tell him the Saudis get to vote in American elections. That should be a fun way to get things started,
Somebody should tell him the Saudis get to vote in American elections. That should be a fun way to get things started,
lizkat
Watching March roll out real winter
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Assuming debates matter. the "winner" can depend on whether voters listen for responsiveness to moderators' questions on the issues, or if they rate candidates on how aggressively each presents partisan talking points they're already familiar with.
Neither Buttigieg nor DeSantis is stupid.
The latter is an expert by now at coming from the standpoint of Republican talking points. He's not as provincial as one might expect either, although it's possible that hanging out in Florida politics for the past four years has dulled his ability to seek innovation vs trying to adhere to the GOP's core principles of "let's win" and "Trump's our guy as long as he says he is."
DeSantis does routinely face questions from a lot of media outlets that are from outside Florida, thanks to the mere presence of Trump and the existence of hurricanes and spacecraft launches in Florida, not to conflate those as the only reason for anyone outside of Florida to wonder what's up down there. But it's still a big step up for any governor to develop perspectives on national issues (and yeah, past immigration).
Buttigieg is a past presidential candidate, has administrative experience now as head of a cabinet level agency with legislative wins under Biden. As a good listener, he'd be looking for "what is the issue here?" in moderators' questions (even those that might have some partisan tinge) and his answers more focused on the practical, feasible options that a Democrat would favor, or has in fact accomplished in the past.
So on issues, I'd probably say Buttigieg would be stellar in debate, and would attract some indies as well as progressive Dems, but DeSantis --even if sometimes having had to blow off questions on stuff he's not really familiar with-- would rack up points for holding the approval of Trump's old base and possibly some blue dog Dems as well, maybe including some Biden voters. Fortress Ron versus Explorer Pete...
I just wonder how many voters care about actual issues and how many continue to look after whether "their guy" can "get" the other guy in debates on any particular question, no matter the issue, question or answers. JFK got Nixon because the latter was all sweaty looking. Harris got Pence because of a housefly that kept landing on Pence...
rdrr
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Just was wondering why Gaetz wasn't under indictment yet. Found a report dated Sept 23rd that its unlikely that charges would be brought against him. So he gets off again... Just a shame that someone like Al Franken had to resign, but that creep with some pretty gross allegations can show his face in public.
Charges unlikely against Gaetz in federal sex-trafficking probe
Federal authorities began investigating the Florida Republican in late 2020.
www.politico.com
shadow puppet
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This is being shared under #TrumpAnnouncement. 
Yes, I am focusing on cognitive impairment, because that’s what I was talking about. You’re the one that brought up Trump. I was never making a comparison, you were. But I don’t disagree Trump has a dangerous personality that leads unstable behaviors. But I think I’ve already said that quite clearly. I will also make clear for the umpteenth time I never voted for him and never will.
I’m going to argue something pretty controversial here: we as American voters should not have to choose between a raging pathological narcissist criminal and someone who if living alone or with a mildly disabled spouse would probably be considered for some level of assisted living.
Much of what you describe are manifestations of narcissism. His comments about bleach or disinfectants is clearly an illiteracy around medicine/healthcare… but I believe his narcissism compelled him to A. make him talk about things he clearly did not and B. make it seem like he had solutions to problems when in fact at that point in time very little was known. And then when information contradicts his claims, he must double down on the wrong because of course, he can never be wrong. I think the redrawing of the hurricane map is the epitome of his narcissism.
My practical concern about Biden is not that he stumbles upon words or seems to frequently appear lost. It’s that dementia goes beyond that (which btw 75% of people over the age of 75 have to some degree). If a “commander in chief” is routinely or at times confused, disoriented, unable to comprehend, irrationally agitated etc that is a serious problem. In some cases you can run into problems with delusions and hallucinations. And symptoms can be affected both predictably, but also unpredictability. The fact he has so little access with Q&A and 40% days “on vacation” (yes, I realize POTUS is never really on vacation), the need for his office to routinely walk back the statement (ie US stance on Taiwan), etc concerns me that the White House is aware of problems and seeks to minimize the risk of displaying them.
It also doesn’t help on the world stage to have our President appear to have impaired facilities. And it does no service to the country when he is so inaccessible to the press from asking him questions.
And I’m not saying this to be mean or as a derisive comment towards Biden. Sure, I don’t agree with some of his politics as a independent moderate but I don’t think he is a bad person. In fact, I think he’s about as “real” as politicians get and is likely genuinely concerned for his constituents rather than himself. My comments are out of concern for the country and frankly his own well being and comfort. Dementia is a horrible, horrible, horrible disease and I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone.
His age has nothing to do with it either. Bernie Sanders and Pelosi are older and seems much more on the ball. Hell, look at Faucci. He’s 81. I thought he was at least a decade younger.
And my initial comments had nothing to do with comparing him vs. Trump or frankly any Republican candidate in any context. His state of mind should be a consideration for the democrat’s decision to primary him.
My conjecture on Biden is yes conjecture, based on observation, of which we have many datapoints to compare. And I do recognize Biden has never been the “smoothest” of public figures (often called “gaffe prone”). Just as my conjecture about Trump’s mental health and motivations are also conjecture, based on observation. I don’t expect the Biden or Trump to release comprehensive neuropsych testing. And the past decade+ working in psych medicine and dealing with countless of patients directly. Not to mention observing how dementia has affected at least a few family members.
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Biden does not need assisted living. Bringing up cognitive impairment because an 80 year old - who is actually probably sharper and more active than most his age - slips up on a word causes you to lose me on this.
Is there someone younger and even more sharp? Sure. Make the argument that he’s just too old. You don’t need all the additional fluff to make your point. Biden hasn’t shown me he’s losing control of his faculties or sanity just because he stumbles over a word.
That’s a nice way of putting it, to say the least. It was fucking stupid and all of Biden’s gaffes combined don’t add up to that audible moment of Trump’s single marble rattling around in his orange dome.
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Herdfan
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It's not the stuttering and verbal flubs.
It is when he says stuff like the US would protect Taiwan if China invades. A comment the WH walked back the next day.
At some point a comment like this at best could hurt the USA's standing in the world or at worst start a war.
And no matter how much everyone here defended him, there was NO excuse for looking for the dead Congresswoman. None!
He remains a drumpster, despite claims to the contrary.
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Look, you can always point to any president and find things they shouldn’t have said. The people live under a microscope. I get it, I will riff on other politicians I don’t like all day long. If those things you mentioned are concerning, then you should be worried for about two dozen republicans who are thirty years Biden’s junior. Those things you mentioned Biden said, yeah, it’s important to note. It was a mistake. It’s not a recurring issue. It’s not a sign of cognitive decline. You think it was a reckless statement. Maybe it was. But you’re not going to add up all of what you consider to be Biden’s most questionable mistakes and come anywhere near what those aforementioned younger conservatives say. If Biden’s words or actions make you fear for his mental state, then you should be very concerned about those conservatives, who say far worse, far more often.
What we are failing to deal with here, pertains to picking out poor examples of the big picture. Biden’s gaffes are a leaking roof; when I hear the nonsense coming from Trump, MTG, Gaetz, Gosar, Boebert - allegedly with full control of their faculties - you are ignoring the tsunami to focus on the roof.
I watch Biden all the time. I listen to his speeches. He’s sharp and aware, he jokes and he exercises.
You can make the case you want someone younger and/or someone who appears to be more “sharp”. I wouldn’t disagree entirely. I’ve seen nothing that tells me Biden isn’t fit.
I would argue it’s easier to forget a congresswoman you may or not know recently passed than than to think Frederick Douglass is alive. But aside from my own “whataboutism”, I guess I deal in things in terms of degrees - I’m not sure I would think there was anything wrong with Biden even if he was just some old guy giving a sales demo. If I saw Paul Gosar doing the same, I’d be worried. And if I heard someone giving a speech - let’s call them Ronald Slump - who doesn’t know how to speak in-depth on any topic at all but only knew how to name call or speak in hyperbole, I wouldn’t question their faculties because it wouldn’t matter in the first place, they’re too far gone.
It all comes across as focusing on a leaky faucet while a hurricane is a foot away from the front door. Very manufactured. Biden as an isolated case doesn’t concern me. Add in the hateful and inciting rhetoric of the right, along with their batshit insane conspiracy theories and the things they’ll do and say, and Biden drops way down the list of my concerns. Watching Biden give comments on Ukraine as we speak right now and he’s talking about things Trump never would get into because he couldn’t even talk like a normal adult or comprehend real world affairs.
Yeah, I know these things always devolve into a comparison, but it’s confusing how someone who supported Trump could then turn around and act concerned about Biden’s mental state or acuity. Priorities first. Biden seems fine.
Well, to be fair most people that would be his age are dead (average male life expectancy is 77). So I suppose in that regard he is doing better than most. This is a would say physically he is way above average, cognitively middle of the road at best… that’s a tough judgement to make though. “Sharper than most 80 year olds” isn’t exactly the best bar to set.
I’m not making the argument he is too old. I implied Bernie, Pelosi, and Faucci don’t seem “too old” and they’re all older than Biden. Maxine Waters is 83, she seems pretty on the ball. Diane Feinstein is 88-89, it’s an open secret she’s not with it these days.
I don’t think people should be excluded because of their age. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to take age into consideration when voting. I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for candidates over the age of 75 to be expected to undergo and share the results standardized cognitive testing. I’m not sure that should be a mandate, but rather an accepted practice/expectation- just as physical health screens are used. It’s not far off from the the idea people of a certain age should probably be required to re-take their driving test, potentially minus the requirement.
That said running any 80 year old is a highly risky proposition for reasons everyone recognizes. Having someone serve until 86 is really pushing it. And not just for cognitive reasons.
And it’s not just stumbling over words. It’s forgetting words. It’s long completely incoherent/nonsensical ramblings that make no sense. It’s saying things like his son died in Afghanistan, multiple times and other such incorrect recollections. Or seemingly getting lost frequently. Shaking hands of people that aren’t there or forgetting he shook peoples hands. Constant corrections about US’s position on Taiwan and other such matters. Periods of extremely sluggish behavior. Rather unnecessary, inappropriate, and out-of-character lashing out at people. It’s not one incident or symptom alone. It’s a constellation of symptoms occurring repeatedly over time.
Again, I’m not sure why you’re bringing this back to Trump when it has nothing to do with him. It’s a false binary and has zero relevance when I don’t even like the guy.
Or why you’re ignoring everything past your imposed “…” in my comment to imply a statement I did not make. Or to try to make this about age.
SuperMatt
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I didn’t realize the 2022 Shitposting Olympics were happening this week. Gotta say, a thread about Trump running for president again seems like the perfect place for them.
Looks like we have a LOT of hurt feelings after the red wave turned out to be a mirage.
Being tough on China is part of MAGA… until Biden does it, in which case the right does a 180 and says China is immediately gonna go to war with us. Meanwhile, taunting the dictator of North Korea by calling him “little Rocket Man” is funny and has no risk of nuclear catastrophe? Calling other countries shitholes is good for the USA’s standing in the world? Bonus points for lumping everybody in the forum together when criticizing their response to one of Biden’s gaffes.
Pretty good entry, but I think this is only good for a silver medal in this event.
Criticizing Biden for not appearing often enough for media questions, after another poster already pointed out he was just as available as Trump was…? Ignoring other posters’ provided data and repeating discredited talking points is critical to shitposting. But that’s not the best part.
75% of people over 75 do NOT have dementia; not even CLOSE. Including something so far off in a post where one claims to be able to diagnose dementia in a public official is truly, truly special. So I’m gonna give that post first place in the Olympics so far.
Prevalence of dementia in elderly people dropped in multiyear study
Story at a glance Between 2000 and 2016, the age-adjusted prevalence of dementia among the nation’s elderly fell by 30 percent. Disparities based on race and sex also decreased throughout thi…
thehill.com