Musk offers to buy Twitter

[AG_PhamD]

I have never liked Musk, but I figured I would give him a chance to turn things around… but wow. I have no problem with him outing the “trust and safety” board provided he replaces it with something different to fulfill the same function. By the looks of things, it pretty much seems to be Musk making the decisions influenced by his own emotions. So much for a free speech platform with rules consistent with laws.

Just to take an extreme example to highlight the point- If this is a free speech platform, why is Alex Jones banned (Believe me, I’m 100% not advocating for Jones to be on Twitter)? But if it’s a free speech platform and everyone else seems to have had a reset, then why not him. Why do Musks emotions around losing a child have anything to do with not allowing him back on?

As for this whole plane tracking nonsense- I actually think there is a fair argument not to allow dedicated accounts posting peoples locations without a delay, even if it is publicly available information. Musk banning the creator’s personal website is definitely a step too far.

It appears Musk may have banned a journalist who checked into the story about his son’s car being attacked- which reportedly was never phoned into the police, contradicting the story Musk gave as justification for banning the plane tracking account. Other journalists that re-tweeted the story may have also been banned for this reason. Again, totally inappropriate.

(Perhaps if you don’t want your private jet tracked, sell it and use charter companies)

This type of behavior will undoubtably kill Twitter. The best thing Musk could do is step out of the role of moderator. Doesn’t he have better things to be doing?

As for the “Twitter files”, I don’t think they are a complete “nothing burger”. I’m not sure they necessarily show the extent GOP has claimed over the years. What I think is more interesting is how Twitter operated behind the scenes and more so the interface between the government and Twitter.

I just find it unfortunate Matt Taibi has received so much flack. It’s actually disturbing the smear campaign used to try to discredit him. Before anything was published the messenger was already being attacked. He’s one of the few journalists these days I trust to look at things in a fair, objective, and non-hysterical manner. And he most definitely not a conservative as the WaPo falsely claimed, he’s a Bernie Sanders progressive.

Frankly, I have I have very mixed feelings on Bari Weiss for a number of reasons. I think she’s probably a better option than many majors journalists that would likely be overly biased to the right or left. As it is, MSNBC claims there’s nothing to see, FOX claims universal conservative censorship. From what I can tell, neither of those takes are accurate.

Like it or not, Twitter has a tremendous amount of power over society. I think it’s in the public interest to understand how social media sites operate regarding how they censor/limit speech. And if and how the government influences things. That said, Musk seems to be making Twitter everything he said it shouldn’t be.

 

[dada_dave]

I don’t have the bandwidth to go over why the OSint ban doesn’t make much sense but I’ll address your thoughts on Weiss/Taibi and the Twitter files.

As for the “Twitter files”, I don’t think they are a complete “nothing burger”.

To be absolutely clear: Yes they are.

I’m not sure they necessarily show the extent GOP has claimed over the years. What I think is more interesting is how Twitter operated behind the scenes and more so the interface between the government and Twitter.

and no they don’t really show anything of the sort:

Hello! You’ve Been Referred Here Because You’re Wrong About Twitter And Hunter Biden’s Laptop

Hello! Someone has referred you to this post because you’ve said something quite wrong about Twitter and how it handled something to do with Hunter Biden’s laptop. If you’re new h…

www.techdirt.com

I just find it unfortunate Matt Taibi has received so much flack. It’s actually disturbing the smear campaign used to try to discredit him. Before anything was published the messenger was already being attacked. He’s one of the few journalists these days I trust to look at things in a fair, objective, and non-hysterical manner. And he most definitely not a conservative as the WaPo falsely claimed, he’s a Bernie Sanders progressive.

So were Brianna Gray Joy and Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald. Look who they are now and probably who they always were.

I’m sorry you feel Matt Taibi is some sort of beacon of journalism. He isn’t … as this episode proves. He isn’t just the messenger, he’s part of the message. As emptywheel put it those upset by the label of conservative journalists applied to Weiss and Taibi should be glad that WaPo restrained themselves from a more accurate description: PR flack. And truthfully it didn’t need proving again as he’s been awful for years. It isn’t a smear to use his own words against him or his own positions taken, especially when they are appropriate to the context. Like say noting the hypocrisy of his derision of “billionaire controlled media” having tight influence over news stories and then participating in exactly that. Musk is controlling what is seen, when, and how, and even then it doesn’t show anything of importance despite their best efforts to play these internal documents up as some sort of grand revelation. They even ghoulishly celebrated how they got James Baker fired for doing his job as a company lawyer. But of course him doing that job was a proof of a conspiracy rather than … how things work in the real world when you release documents. I mean he tried to manipulate the information that Twitter removed posts at the behest of the Biden campaign because they … ::checks notes:: … were pictures of Hunter’s dick. Kinda against TOS (well at the time, who knows now - “yeah but that’s funny” chortles Elon while banning accounts showing him in his bathing suit being hosed down).

Taibi’s a classic news manipulator and has been awful/toxic for a very long time. Even his own memoir details some pretty horrible things that he thought was funny and put himself in some sort of “good light”.

Okay so I don’t have the bandwidth for Weiss either but these are people with an axe to grind rather than the best people to go over the material. Oh and it’s of note that they are screeching about how the MSM won’t fully cover their bombshells while not actually making the underlying information available. I can’t imagine why. Taibi and Weiss are why editors exist at news outlets.

That said, Musk seems to be making Twitter everything he said it shouldn’t be.

Yeah … and therefore what do you think that says about the people helping him do that and the claims they are disingenuously making?

 

[dada_dave]

turns out that banning still allows you to use twitter spaces. So a bunch of the banned journalists got together for a pow wow there. Elon eventually showed up, made a fool of himself when he was fact-checked, and then had the feed shut off.

That’s … impressive on several levels.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I don’t have the bandwidth to go over why the OSint ban doesn’t make much sense but I’ll address your “I don’t like/support Musk, but” caveat about Weiss/Taibi and the Twitter files.



To be absolutely clear: Yes they are.



and no they don’t really show anything of the sort:

Hello! You’ve Been Referred Here Because You’re Wrong About Twitter And Hunter Biden’s Laptop

Hello! Someone has referred you to this post because you’ve said something quite wrong about Twitter and how it handled something to do with Hunter Biden’s laptop. If you’re new h…

www.techdirt.com

So were Brianna Gray Joy and Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald. Look who they are now and probably who they always were.

I’m sorry you feel Matt Taibi is some sort of beacon of journalism. He isn’t … as this episode proves. He isn’t just the messenger, he’s part of the message. As emptywheel put it those upset by the label of conservative journalists applied to Weiss and Taibi should be glad that WaPo restrained themselves from a more accurate description: PR flack. And truthfully it didn’t need proving again as he’s been awful for years. It isn’t a smear to use his own words against him or his own positions taken, especially when they are appropriate to the context. Like say noting the hypocrisy of his derision of “billionaire controlled media” having tight influence over news stories and then participating in exactly that. Musk is controlling what is seen, when, and how, and even then it doesn’t show anything of importance despite their best efforts to play these internal documents up as some sort of grand revelation. They even ghoulishly celebrated how they got James Baker fired for doing his job as a company lawyer. But of course him doing that job was a grand conspiracy rather than … how things work in the real world when you release documents.



Yeah … and therefore what do you think that says about him, the people helping him do that, and the claims they are disingenuously making?

So who would you prefer be chosen to report on these files? (Preferably I would say everyone should, but I’m not sure that’s entirely feasible, at this point).

If you think Taibi, Grey, Greenwald, etc are shills for the right, I think you are quite mistaken. It’s frankly quite laughable. Do you think Greenwald would have posted the Snowden files if he was Conservative? Grey is clearly progressive. Or does she just write all those articles about workers rights, Medicare for All, and gun control to disguise herself? “I will say they don’t fit into the mainstream liberal” schema. The thing these 3 all have in common is a distaste for the MSM and an appreciation for civil liberties, which for some reason has become less and less of a value held by the left in recent times. It’s actually quite interesting how the ideology of this on the mainstream left and right have reversed in many cases. And to some degree, both the right and left both are moving towards authoritarian ideologies, they just only favor their side.

The government absolutely interfaced with Twitter. There quite a lot of evidence of that. But the Trump administration also did it too. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, in fact it’s probably necessary. But it can potentially be a abused. I think it’s important to see how this occurs.

I was watching Anderson Cooper a night or two ago, he suggested this line of journalistic inquiry is not a nothing burger. I guess he’s on the right now too.

It may not be the story the right wanted it to be, but that doesn’t mean it is nothing. There is quite a bit of interest into how Musk is running Twitter, which is totally fair. Why is it that the previous operators are immune from any investigation?

The problem here is the right and left have become so tribal that if anyone steps outside the designated ideology and unspoken “rules” that person automatically becomes shunned and told they’re a wolf in sheeps clothing, Just because someone doesn’t perpetuate the mainstream left wing narrative to a T does not make them a member of the right, and visa versa. The messengers were shot even before they reported anything. What does that tell you?

 

[dada_dave]

So who would you prefer be chosen to report on these files? (Preferably I would say everyone should, but I’m not sure that’s entirely feasible, at this point).

If you think Taibi, Grey, Greenwald, etc are shills for the right, I think you are quite mistaken. It’s frankly quite laughable. Do you think Greenwald would have posted the Snowden files if he was Conservative? Grey is clearly progressive. Or does she just write all those articles about workers rights, Medicare for All, and gun control to disguise herself? “I will say they don’t fit into the mainstream liberal” schema. The thing these 3 all have in common is a distaste for the MSM and an appreciation for civil liberties, which for some reason has become less and less of a value held by the left in recent times. It’s actually quite interesting how the ideology of this on the mainstream left and right have reversed in many cases. And to some degree, both the right and left both are moving towards authoritarian ideologies, they just only favor their side.

Bullshit. Sigh … if you still think Taibi, Greenwald, and Grey (and I noted you left off Tulsi) are some sort of champions of the left or civil liberties after everything they’ve done (or Aaron Mate/Michael Tracy, there’s another pair of assholes) - I just don’t know what to say and frankly nothing I could say would convince you at this point - speaking of tribal and identity. They are horseshoe theory incarnate and all have literally shilled for the right and often some of the worst, most extreme right.

As to your query … yeah any newspaper could’ve reported it, multiple ones could’ve, they all could’ve been. There’s no limit on that.

The government absolutely interfaced with Twitter. There quite a lot of evidence of that. But the Trump administration also did it too. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, in fact it’s probably necessary. But it can potentially be a abused. I think it’s important to see how this occurs.

Yeah and you would’ve gotten the same information by paying attention over the last 6 years and listening to the public statements made by everyone involved. Nothing nefarious happened here. Did you even read the link?

I was watching Anderson Cooper a night or two ago, he suggested this line of journalistic inquiry is not a nothing burger. I guess he’s on the right now too.

Hardly. But I’d like to know what specifically he thought was interesting as to me it’s been a no show.

It may not be the story the right wanted it to be, but that doesn’t mean it is nothing. There is quite a bit of interest into how Musk is running Twitter, which is totally fair. Why is it that the previous operators are immune from any investigation?

Immune from investigation … over what exactly? And what investigation? So far there hasn’t been one … there’s been a selective release of documents that didn’t even show what the people who released them said they showed - including Taibi, his analysis is bunk though I suppose you could give him credit for not going as far as Elon tried to claim he did. But, hey, I mean let’s release all Twitter documents including recent ones under Musk. Somehow they don’t want that … weird.

The problem here is the right and left have become so tribal that if anyone steps outside the designated ideology and unspoken “rules” that person automatically becomes shunned and told they’re a wolf in sheeps clothing, Just because someone doesn’t perpetuate the mainstream left wing narrative to a T does not make them a member of the right, and visa versa. The messengers were shot even before they reported anything. What does that tell you?

Sigh … when someone screams at the top of their lungs “I’m such an independent thinker!”, “I’m so neutral!”, “I’m so over both sides”, “I’m not mainstream and that’s why I’m trustworthy and not a crank” … it’s a very good indication that they are none of those things. Statements like that immediately should get your bullshit detector up and running. They are often the mark of the cynical or the delusional.

You talk about the left abandoning the civil liberties? Again bullshit, but if so those sets of jackasses are at the forefront, if they were to be counted as left still. They all use the classic “I do not support but they are right about X” then “Y” and “Z” to cover support for some of the worst regimes and people on the planet. And then dress up the criticism they get for doing so as suppression. Same playbook that we see over and over again.

I’m shooting the messengers because of the way they manipulated the message even in this instance and how it fits into the broader pattern of how they have done the same for years. I don’t trust them because they are not trustworthy.

Edit: Even the parodies of them are barely parodies anymore:

For a free thinker who doesn’t conform to any tribalistic dogma, he’s rather predictable.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Do you feel the same way about John Kerry, Climate Czar, gallivanting around the world in his private jet? Or all the celebs attending climate summits in their private jets?

The issue here is a perceived double standard as Elon Musk (thanks to his links with Tesla) is - or rather, was - linked in the public eye, or public space, with the support of, and the promotion of, modes of transport that are not based on fossil fuels.

If your public image is based on your (perceived) support of - or promoting awareness of - environmental issues, don't howl with outraged surprise when you are called out on a double standard.

In this context, I would argue that the violation of "security" argument (especially if the flight path information is public source) is a distraction, or diversion; besides, the so-called "richest man in the world" (now, as of this week, demoted to a new slot where he is the supposedly the "second richest man in the world") should be well able to afford decent security.

For that very reason, I don't have a quarrel with - for example - the loathsome Mr Trump "gallivanting" around in a private jet; private jets are in complete compliance with his revolting public image.

Welp, WaPo reports Twitter has suspended accounts of a bunch of journalists... . from CNN, NYT, WaPo "and other outlets" tonight. Stay tuned, it only began around 730pm.

Breaking news piece WaPo - paywall removed: https://wapo.st/3YpT6qj

So much for the "free speech absolutist".

Guys like this only like "free speech" when it is enlisted in support of their causes, or in sycophantic praise of themselves.

Well when Musk starts banning journos, the papers and other media outlets for which they work will have to make some decisions about their own "umbrellla" presence on Twitter as landing page accounts from which they tout feature stories etc. At the very least you'd expect them to start setting up either their own Mastodon server for social media accounts of their employees, or else amp up their presence elsewhere in existing platforms .

Agreed.

So many questions about this acquisition's financing and what those lenders and co-investors think, what is the impact on the management (and capitalization) of his other businesses, are there private channel talks between social media hosting "behavior" regulators in Europe and the US, etc.

There is also at least one class action suit of former Twitter shareholders pending, over allegations that Musk's tweets last autumn about intent to abandon the acquisition (due to his own later dismissed allegations about Twitter-induced flaws in the merger agreement) caused the plaintiff class losses during a specific timeframe.

Meanwhile he has sold at least $20 billion of Tesla shares and is losing money by the truckload pending whatever are his "fixes" that he imagines will turn the thing around and start making money.

Tonight's wave of dismissing journos who may have dissed him from their Twitter accounts doesn't sound like a contribution to a fix. Suppressing dissent is exactly the thing he claimed to be fixing, no?

Sure it's his site now and he may censor what he wishes to suppress. The main problem remains that he's not suppressing material that regulators regard as illegal. But now that he's into suppressing dissent from the left, or criticism of his own behavior, there are other platforms more hospitable to journalists, and if he keeps that up then mainstream media outlets will depart: to stay makes them look complicit with the overall aims of Musk, whose goals would now appear to have very little to do with "absolute free speech."

Musk has made Twitter into his own image. He is Twitter and Twitter is Musk. What's a paper like the WaPo or NYT doing there with landing page accounts churning out links to their own wares and so helping draw traffic to Musk's site, while its own journalists get banned for expressing content Musk dislikes?

If memory serves, he was forced to follow through ("performance" of a contract) and actually purchase the site, although, initially, he sought to renege on the deal but was compelled in court to complete the contract.

Nothing I have seen since his purchase has altered my conviction that he wishes to thrash the site, I suspect, for both personal and perhaps, political reasons.

 

[Andropov]

Mastodon links are malware now

https://twitter.com/sebaaltonen/status/1603660561803366400?s=46&t=Cpp1i6olTt7-8B2yWmyQEw

 

[Eric]

When your own poll isn't going your way.

 

[turbineseaplane]

A very good point from Bálint Szilakszi on Mastodon

This “Elon is free to do what he wants on Twitter, and you’re free to move elsewhere” is a very american take.

Elon must comply with European laws and regulations in data protection, anti-trust, anti-discrimination, etc or the EU will seize his property to enforce fines or make Twitter unavailable for EU.

 

[Eric]

A very good point from Bálint Szilakszi on Mastodon

This “Elon is free to do what he wants on Twitter, and you’re free to move elsewhere” is a very american take.

Elon must comply with European laws and regulations in data protection, anti-trust, anti-discrimination, etc or the EU will seize his property to enforce fines or make Twitter unavailable for EU.

Ahh, the standard reply over at MR as soon as anyone complains in the forum designed for complaints.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Guess who just managed to Streisand Effect his way to an entire subreddit dedicated to tracking his stupid jet?

ElonJetTracker • r/ElonJetTracker

Given the latest attempt to hide this corporate jet's whereabouts, which is in part funded by US taxpayers, this community will help to keep this...

old.reddit.com

 

[turbineseaplane]

Ahh, the standard reply over at MR as soon as anyone complains in the forum designed for complaints.

So true ... Anytime any jurisdiction threatens any aspect of what Apple does (and how they do it), the retort from the cult is always "Apple should just pull out of XYZ!" -- "Apple doesn't need XYZ customers anyways!"

Real business wizards over there

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The EU has warned Mr Musk that Twitter could face sanctions "soon" for having suspended the accounts of a number of journalists, describing this development as "worrying" (EU Commissioner Vera Journova was quoted as saying that "news about the arbitrary suspension of journalists on Twitter is worrying").

She further added: “(The) EU’s Digital Services Act requires respect of media freedom and fundamental rights. This is reinforced under our #MediaFreedomAct.
Elon Musk should be aware of that. There are red lines. And sanctions, soon.”

The howling hypocrisy - and thin-skin - of this utter narcissist and self-described "free speech absolutist" is breath-taking (for this a freedom that is evidently reserved only for aspiring Nazis, misogynists, racists, and others who dwell on the alt-right).

 

[Cmaier]

So true ... Anytime any jurisdiction threatens any aspect of what Apple does (and how they do it), the retort from the cult is always "Apple should just pull out of XYZ!" -- "Apple doesn't need XYZ customers anyways!"

Real business wizards over there

Goes both ways. “I dropped my iPhone in my septic tank and then ran over it with my cargo bike full of baguettes and contrary to EU regulation xxx.yy Apple refuses to give me a shiny new one plus 40 euros for my troubles.”

 

[Eric]

The EU has warned Mr Musk that Twitter could face sanctions "soon" for having suspended the accounts of a number of journalists, describing this development as "worrying" (EU Commissioner Vera Journova was quoted as saying that "news about the arbitrary suspension of journalists on Twitter is worrying").

She further added: “(The) EU’s Digital Services Act requires respect of media freedom and fundamental rights. This is reinforced under our #MediaFreedomAct.
Elon Musk should be aware of that. There are red lines. And sanctions, soon.”

The howling hypocrisy - and thin-skin - of this utter narcissist and self-described "free speech absolutist" is breath-taking (for this a freedom that is evidently reserved only for aspiring Nazis, misogynists, racists, and others who dwell on the alt-right).

Frankly, I'm a huge fan of the EU based GDPR and that's why we employ it here. It's a clearcut set of rules, policies and guidelines that are sensible and ubiquitous.

Being the world's richest troll does not make him exempt from the same rules everyone else must follow, I mean who does he think he is, Donald Trump?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Goes both ways. “I dropped my iPhone in my septic tank and then ran over it with my cargo bike full of baguettes and contrary to EU regulation xxx.yy Apple refuses to give me a shiny new one plus 40 euros for my troubles.”

Sometimes, for sure
Lots more of the other complaining lately, though, with all the news around new EU legislation that will impact Apple

(much to the chagrin of the "Apple can do whatever it wants! Screw 'em!" crowd)

 

[lizkat]

turns out that banning still allows you to use twitter spaces. So a bunch of the banned journalists got together for a pow wow there. Elon eventually showed up, made a fool of himself when he was fact-checked, and then had the feed shut off.

Imagine being a software engineer at Twitter these days: come out from under desk where you are expected to sleep when not coding, plug in a kettle for some java if there is any instant around, since no catering service or pantry... Do this quick fix now, and undo that other thing from yesterday, and please, just trust Elon when he says to put the shutoff right here, it will be fine, two Tesla lawyers signed off on it.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Imagine being a software engineer at Twitter these days: come out from under desk where you are expected to sleep when not coding, plug in a kettle for some java if there is any instant around, since no catering service or pantry... Do this quick fix now, and undo that other thing from yesterday, and please, just trust Elon when he says to put the shutoff right here, it will be fine, two Tesla lawyers signed off on it.

You cant be under the desk as the rent has not been paid on your office.

 

[dada_dave]

When your own poll isn't going your way.

Vox populi, vox dei!

 

[dada_dave]

turns out that banning still allows you to use twitter spaces. So a bunch of the banned journalists got together for a pow wow there. Elon eventually showed up, made a fool of himself when he was fact-checked, and then had the feed shut off.

Here’s a link to clip of it:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForeverEversley/status/1603612770892918784?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email

Though supposedly the full audio recording isn’t available on Twitter spaces as it normally would be … weird!

Edit: … And he’s killed the Spaces feature entirely as a response.

Elon Musk Kills Twitter Audio Feature After Bizarre Talk With Journalists

It's clear Musk would rather burn Twitter to the ground than hear people question the wisdom of his choices.

gizmodo.com