Russia-Ukraine

[Scepticalscribe]

Sources? Never mind.

As fighting rages, Zelensky authorizes talks with Russian officials. (Published 2022)

www.nytimes.com

This will be interesting. Why would Zelensky surrender now?

The sources I am seeing (one in UAE - Khaleej Times, quoting Russian sources, one in Bishkek, citing Novosti, a Russian agency) all seem to quote Russian sources.

The fact that Belarus - and some sources today state that Belarus intends to explicitly aid the Russian assault/attack - has offered a location (in the town of Gomel, near the Belarussian border with Ukraine) for talks to take place, and has guaranteed the security of the Ukrainian delegation, concerns me.

Gomel is one of the most radioactive places on the planet. The direction of the wind, on the day (night) Chernobyl exploded, (in Ukraine, which lies to the south), in 1986, meant that much of the radioactive material blew over the border into Belarus, immediately north of Ukraine.

For what it is worth, I have observed several elections in Belarus, and the first time I observed an election in that country, in 2004, I was deployed to Gomel.

To my mind, the question is not "why would Zelensky surrender now?" but why on earth would he trust (the bona fides of) Belarus?

A brief reminder from the distant past: The Prime Minister of Hungary, the leader of the country in 1956 (who had been a highly regarded & respected reformer deposed earlier in 1954 but was re-instated - to popular acclaim- in 1956), was a man named Imre Nagy.

After the defeat of the Hungarians, - the Hungarian uprising of 1956 - Yugoslavia (while communist, an independent and non-aligned country) had offered Imre Nagy asylum, or sanctuary, in the Yugoslav embassy; en route - in a Yugoslav embassy bus - to (possible) sanctuary in Romania, the Yugoslav embassy bus was stopped by Soviet forces - the Yugoslav diplomats were beaten up and thrown off the bus - while its remaining occupants were forcibly kidnapped, whereupon Mr Nagy disappeared into the Soviet Union, where he was tried (in secret - the Soviets didn't dare broadcast it, as his demeanour at his trial, dignified, eloquent and impossibly courageous, and his refusal to recant, made clear his unapologetic support for the Hungarian Revolution), and subsequently executed, murdered, his rehabilitation and reburial occurring only in 1989 in Hungary, immediately preceding the collapse of communist rule in that state.

 

[User.45]

The sources I am seeing (one in UAE - Khaleej Times, quoting Russian sources, one in Bishkek, citing Novosti, a Russian agency) all seem to quote Russian sources.

The fact that Belarus - and some sources today state that Belarus intends to explicitly aid the Russian assault/attack - has offered a location (in the town of Gomel, near the Belarussian border with Ukraine) for talks to take place, and has garanteed the security of the Ukrainian delegation.

Gomel is one of the most radioactive places on the planet.

For what it is worth, I have observed several elections in Belarus, and the first time I observed an election in that country, in 2004, I was deployed to Gomel.

To my mind, the question is not "why would Zelensky surrender now?" but why on earth would he trust (the bona fides of) Belarus?

A brief reminder from the distant past: The Prime Minister of Hungary, the leader of the country in 1956 (who had been a highly regarded & respected reformer deposed earlier in 1954 but was re-instated - to popular acclaim- in 1956), was a man named Imre Nagy.

Immediately after the defeat of the Hungarians, Yugoslavia (while communist, an independent and non-aligned country) had offered Imre Nagy asylum, or sanctuary, in the Yugoslav embassy; en route - in a Yugoslav embassy bus - to (possible) sanctuary in Romania, the Yugoslav embassy bus was stopped by Soviet forces, its occupants forcibly kidnapped whereupon Mr Nagy disappeared into the Soviet Union, where he was tried (in secret - they couldn't dare broadcast it, as his demeanour at his trial, dignified, eloquent and impossibly courageous, made clear his unapologetic support for the Hungarian Revolution), and subsequently executed, murdered, his rehabilitation and reburial occurring only in 1989 in Hungary, immediately preceding the collapse of communist rule in that state.

Zelensky will definitely get a nice park dedicated to him in Colorado too. "The Ukrainian Freedom Park"

Hungarian Freedom Park | TCLF

First appearing on cartographer Edward Rollandet’s map of Denver produced in 1889 as an integral part of an extensive park along Cherry Creek, this three-acre triangular parcel on the south side of Speer Boulevard was formerly connected to the larger Alamo Placita Park to the north. Collectively...

www.tclf.org

 

[Renzatic]

Some idiot actually had the bald faced audacity to post this on Facebook today...

 

[Alli]

I am not sure a bankrupt Russia is what we need tbh. After 20 years of Putin, it would become the perfect scenario for a military coup and the installation of an ever harsher regime.

Time to let Nevalny out of jail and into the presidency.

 

[Eric]

So did Ukraine actually destroy their nuclear weapons like they were supposed to in 1994?

Zelensky seems much more level-headed than Putin for sure. But if Russian forces start to take over and there is no good end for Ukraine, if they have them does he punish Russia on the way out?

Wait, is this a talking point from Fox News? Look man, I get you're hard core Conservative but making excuses for Putin is deplorable, come on man, you're better than this. Turn that shit off, get out of that bubble of misinformation and look at the real world around you.

 

[SuperMatt]

Wait, is this a talking point from Fox News? Look man, I get you're hard core Conservative but making excuses for Putin is deplorable, come on man, you're better than this. Turn that shit off, get out of that bubble of misinformation and look at the real world around you.

Yep, the idea that Ukraine somehow hid nuclear weapons from the world for almost 30 years is laughable. But then, Republicans believe all sorts of lies. They have been listening to Trump so long, they are completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Eric]

Yep, the idea that Ukraine somehow hid nuclear weapons from the world for almost 30 years is laughable. But then, Republicans believe all sorts of lies. They have been listening to Trump so long, they are completely out of touch with reality.

Only thing I can think of is it was a talking point on the Fucker Carlson show.

 

[Thomas Veil]

I don't see anything about Zelensky surrendering, nor does he have any reason to, so I don't know why he'd be meeting Putin. The absurd part of my mind speculates that he's arranging to get Putin close enough so Zelensky or someone in his entourage can take a shot at him.

So did Ukraine actually destroy their nuclear weapons like they were supposed to in 1994?

Zelensky seems much more level-headed than Putin for sure. But if Russian forces start to take over and there is no good end for Ukraine, if they have them does he punish Russia on the way out?

Nukes were removed from Ukraine.

Even so, Zelensky would not want to either (a) become a mass murderer by aiming them at Russia, or (b) do the same by detonating them in Ukraine in a super-scorched earth policy, killing his own citizens who are still there and creating a nuclear cloud that might drift over Europe.

Keeps piling on:

Britain’s foreign secretary, Liz Truss, said on Sunday that she would support Britons who want to go to Ukraine to take up arms to resist the Russian invasion, in an intervention likely to escalate tensions with Moscow.

Now there's an idea for our American militias. You want to play soldier? Hop on a plane for Poland, cross the border and have at it.

 

[Zoidberg]

I guess Zelensky will sign his surrender.

Nah.
Russia’s former foreign minister:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1497949890084753411/

 

[SuperMatt]

I don't see anything about Zelensky surrendering, nor does he have any reason to, so I don't know why he'd be meeting Putin. The absurd part of my mind speculates that he's arranging to get Putin close enough so Zelensky or someone in his entourage can take a shot at him.


Nukes were removed from Ukraine.

Even so, Zelensky would not want to either (a) become a mass murderer by aiming them at Russia, or (b) do the same by detonating them in Ukraine in a super-scorched earth policy, killing his own citizens who are still there and creating a nuclear cloud that might drift over Europe.


Now there's an idea for our American militias. You want to play soldier? Hop on a plane for Poland, cross the border and have at it.

I think Putin is in trouble. He wants to hold the talks. Zelensky sees a chance to get some things that he wants while Putin is on the ropes. That’s what I think, but I could be wrong.

 

[User.45]

Some idiot actually had the bald faced audacity to post this on Facebook today...

View attachment 12081

LOLs. THis is sooo good. Strongman Putin "tired"?! It appears that Russian trolls have a supply problem too.

 

[DT]

Now there's an idea for our American militias. You want to play soldier? Hop on a plane for Poland, cross the border and have at it.

No time, they have to post Tik-Tok videos of their firearms, correct people on message boards about firing rates of various rifles, wash and polish their trucks because they got a little dirt on 'em.

 

[User.45]

Nah.
Russia’s former foreign minister:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1497949890084753411/

scroll down. that was 8H ago and the update is 1H ago going with talks. This is why sourcing statements is important.

 

[Zoidberg]

Wait, is this a talking point from Fox News? Look man, I get you're hard core Conservative but making excuses for Putin is deplorable, come on man, you're better than this. Turn that shit off, get out of that bubble of misinformation and look at the real world around you.

It’s cognitively very hard to accept that you’ve been fooled. That’s why so many people who get conned keep sending money, sometimes for years: doubling down on denial of reality is easier on the mind than admitting that they’ve been been lied to.

 

[Zoidberg]

scroll down. that was 8H ago and the update is 1H ago going with talks. This is why sourcing statements is important.

sorry, what?

 

[User.45]

sorry, what?

This is the newest tweet:
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1497934792708562952/

The source comment was about @yaxomoxay dropping this without a reference, so one cannot verify or timestamp the statement.

Also:

 

[User.45]

...with a grain of salt, of course.

 

[Huntn]

View attachment 12083


...with a grain of salt, of course.

I’d also like to see the Ukraine figures for a better perspective, if they are accurate.

 

[Zoidberg]

This is the newest tweet:
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1497934792708562952/

The source comment was about @yaxomoxay dropping this without a reference, so one cannot verify or timestamp the statement.

Also:

Yes, my answer was about how Zelenskyy is not going to go there to surrender.

The Russians don’t expect him to surrend anyway. It’s a trap. Either:
- Zelenskyy goes and they kill him
- They use the brief respite to launch another attack, or to gain time to bring more weapons.
- Zelenskyy sends someone not worth killing, the Russians make some outlandish demands, they get rejected, and they use that as a pretext to escalate.

Coming from the guys who said just over a week ago that they were reducing the numbers at the border, I’m inclined to believe it will be the third option.

 

[User.45]

I’d also like to see the Ukraine figures for a better perspective, if they are accurate.

One thing I didn't think of. Russian Army has 150K soldiers around Ukraine. There are millions of armed Ukrainians.