Russia-Ukraine

[User.45]

Yes, my answer was about how Zelenskyy is not going to go there to surrender.

The Russians don’t expect him to surrend anyway. It’s a trap. Either:
- Zelenskyy goes and they kill him
- They use the brief respite to launch another attack, or to gain time to bring more weapons.
- Zelenskyy sends someone not worth killing, the Russians make some outlandish demands, they get rejected, and they use that as a pretext to escalate.

Coming from the guys who said just over a week ago that they were reducing the numbers at the border, I’m inclined to believe it will be the third option.

Agree. Taking it as a sign of surrender is a very premature conclusion in the absence of additional information.

 

[Arkitect]

Yes, my answer was about how Zelenskyy is not going to go there to surrender.

The Russians don’t expect him to surrend anyway. It’s a trap. Either:
- Zelenskyy goes and they kill him
- They use the brief respite to launch another attack, or to gain time to bring more weapons.
- Zelenskyy sends someone not worth killing, the Russians make some outlandish demands, they get rejected, and they use that as a pretext to escalate.

Coming from the guys who said just over a week ago that they were reducing the numbers at the border, I’m inclined to believe it will be the third option.

Option 3 for me as well.

One thing I didn't think of. Russian Army has 150K soldiers around Ukraine. There are millions of armed Ukrainians.

Occupying an actively resisting population seldom ends well for the occupiers.

 

[Huntn]

Yes, my answer was about how Zelenskyy is not going to go there to surrender.

The Russians don’t expect him to surrend anyway. It’s a trap. Either:
- Zelenskyy goes and they kill him
- They use the brief respite to launch another attack, or to gain time to bring more weapons.
- Zelenskyy sends someone not worth killing, the Russians make some outlandish demands, they get rejected, and they use that as a pretext to escalate.

Coming from the guys who said just over a week ago that they were reducing the numbers at the border, I’m inclined to believe it will be the third option.

I would think that this would break so many negotiation protocols that I can’t imagine the reaction, but I think the best place would be in a neutral territory where security could be guaranteed,

 

[Arkitect]

This is more like it.
Hopefully EU and other nations have put the initial shock behind them and will now be acting faster.

The German railway, Deutsche Bahn, has said that refugees with a Ukraine passport or identity card will be able to travel free on long-distance trains from Poland to Germany.

Link

 

[SuperMatt]

Mike Pompeo is quite popular in Russia these days.

Yet another traitor from the Trump administration.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1496191658387517443/

MSN

www.msn.com

Also, he looks like he got stomach stapling surgery or something… lost a LOT of weight really fast.

 

[Zoidberg]

I would think that this would break so many negotiation protocols that I can’t imagine the reaction, but I think the best place would be in a neutral territory where security could be guaranteed,

They have already done it several times in the past.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So did Ukraine actually destroy their nuclear weapons like they were supposed to in 1994?

.......

Yes.

In early 2013, shortly before I travelled to Kabul, I visited the decommissioned Pervomaisk missile base in Ukraine.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Option 3 for me as well.

I hope you're right. But Navalny went back to Russia voluntarily, eyes wide open, and look where he is now.

 

[Macky-Mac]

regarding negotiations;

I seriously doubt that Ukraine is about to surrender.

Both sides have been calling for negotiations since this started ......and both sides have been blaming the other side for not agreeing to have negotiations.

Al Jazeera's report;

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Kyiv will send a delegation of officials for talks “without preconditions” with Moscow at the Ukraine-Belarus border.

It may be that the first negotiations will be merely each side defiantly making demands with no progress towards peace, but frankly negotiations are the way out of this crisis for both sides.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Re "talks", personally, I would prefer to see any such talks take place in a genuinely neutral (if geographically close) venue; Turkey would seem to me to be ideal for the purpose.

I do not trust Belarus, let alone its leader, or its bona fides, at all.

Failing that, my preference would be for third parties (i.e. diplomats from - for example - west Europe, and/or China) to accompany any team sent by Mr Zelensky, above all, if it includes himself.

Elsewhere, the number of countries closing their airspace to Russia is growing.

As of now, in addition to the Baltic states, Poland, UK, Finland, Ireland, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic and Slovenia, others - such as Germany, Italy, and France have joined the countries closing their airspace to Russia.

 

[Arkitect]

I hope you're right. But Navalny went back to Russia voluntarily, eyes wide open, and look where he is now.

But in his case martyrdom was always going to be an option.

In Zelenskyy's case (if he should go personally, which I doubt) there is backup and him dying or being held captive does not mean Ukraine capitulates. I would suspect quite the contrary.

But hell, when you're dealing with crazy people, all bets are off.

Meanwhile…

Missiles launched into Ukraine from Belarus​

Iskander missiles were launched from Belarus into Ukraine around 17:00 (15:00 GMT), an adviser to Ukraine's interior minister says.
It comes after President Zelensky's office announced today that Ukrainian and Russian officials are due to meet for talks on the Belarusian border with Ukraine - although they have not said when.

So much for Belarusian "neutrality".

 

[MEJHarrison]

Some idiot actually had the bald faced audacity to post this on Facebook today...

View attachment 12081

Wonder if that person has any relation to 'isawit'? This is from FoxNews last week. You know it's bad when the crazies on Fox say you're confused.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

But in his case martyrdom was always going to be an option.

In Zelenskyy's case (if he should go personally, which I doubt) there is backup and him dying or being held captive does not mean Ukraine capitulates. I would suspect quite the contrary.

But hell, when you're dealing with crazy people, all bets are off.

Meanwhile…

So much for Belarusian "neutrality".

This is the - my - concern, or problem, with Belarus.

I do not see how they can credibly offer "a location" for negotiations and "safety guarantees" to Mr Zelensky and his party, if they themselves (almost uniquely in the world) are also an enthusiastic party to the aggression, assault and attack on Ukraine.

 

[Arkitect]

Wonder if that person has any relation to 'isawit'? This is from FoxNews last week. You know it's bad when the crazies on Fox say you're confused.

View attachment 12087

Oh good lord.

Always with the Jesus!
Though that is insane… Jesus/Trump/Putin.

There are some very disturbed people around… and some really should not be near a keyboard.

 

[yaxomoxay]

This is the - my - concern, or problem, with Belarus.

I do not see how they can credibly offer "a location" for negotiations and "safety guarantees" to Mr Zelensky and his party, if they themselves (almost uniquely in the world) are also an enthusiastic party to the aggression, assault and attack on Ukraine.

Killing Zelensky during a diplomatic meeting would be a very serious breach of all diplomatic rules, and customs, and a serious breach on how foreign politics is done. I don’t think that even Hitler or Stalin attempted that.

If Zelensky were to be killed during the talks, I’d expect no less than WW3.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Oh good lord.

Always with the Jesus!
Though that is insane… Jesus/Trump/Putin.

There are some very disturbed people around… and some really should not be near a keyboard.

Trump is mean-spirited, a pathological liar, a con artist and he has cheated on his finances and each of his three wives. He also, to my knowledge, never goes to church. That these people somehow identify him as being religious just shows how deluded and sick they are.

And now there are idiots at CPAC telling the deplorables there that they believe the last election was stolen. This despite Trump losing dozens of court cases and every recount. They only believe it (if they really do) because the pathological liar said so.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Oh good lord.

Always with the Jesus!
Though that is insane… Jesus/Trump/Putin.

There are some very disturbed people around… and some really should not be near a keyboard.

That’s why at Mass this morning the reading from the first letter of St Paul to the Corinthians stated: “thou shall see the revelation of Jesus in Trump and Putin.”

I hate when they do that. I truly do.

 

[Pumbaa]

Killing Zelensky during a diplomatic meeting would be a very serious breach of all diplomatic rules, and customs, and a serious breach on how foreign politics is done. I don’t think that even Hitler or Stalin attempted that.

If Zelensky were to be killed during the talks, I’d expect no less than WW3.

How about a false flag operation then, with “Ukraine” attacking the Russian delegation or Belarus before the meeting?

 

[Macky-Mac]

Re "talks", personally, I would prefer to see any such talks take place in a genuinely neutral (if geographically close) venue; Turkey would seem to me to be ideal for the purpose.

I do not trust Belarus, let alone its leader, or its bona fides, at all.

At this point it's not clear that this initial meeting will be anything other than a show by both sides for public relations purposes. Perhaps a positive result would be a decision to have a ceasefire and let actual negotiations begin.....somewhere safe as Belarus is not to be trusted at all.

A neutral 3rd party site would definitely be required. As you say, perhaps Turkey, or a couple of days ago it was reported that Ukraine was asking Israel to facilitate negotiations

 

[Zoidberg]

Killing Zelensky during a diplomatic meeting would be a very serious breach of all diplomatic rules, and customs, and a serious breach on how foreign politics is done. I don’t think that even Hitler or Stalin attempted that.

If Zelensky were to be killed during the talks, I’d expect no less than WW3.

You’d be mistaken, it’s been done before. And you will never guess by whom… three times.