Russia-Ukraine

[Huntn]

An article in the Washington Post said that Putin’s biggest fear is a more unified Europe, how ironic…as Europe comes together over this outrage. Germany just announced increased defense spending, BP just cancelled a $multi-B project with Russia, Germany cancelled a pipeline, A European ban on Russian commercial flights is going into effect, Delta Airlines just canceled their partnership with their former Russia airline partner, and more. Everyone is in love with Ukraine, the domestic Russian opposition is energized.

How will he ever find respect now? Is this the equivalent of stepping on a rake or falling off a cliff?

 

[Huntn]

Significant about Switzerland, agreed.

What many don't realise about Switzerland is how much their trade law is in conformity with that of the EU - it is difficult for their export businesses to conduct trade within the EU, otherwise.

And, also tonight, word from the Russian central bank: BREAKING - The Russian central bank has ordered market players to reject foreign clients' bids to sell Russian securities from 0400 GMT on Monday, according to a central bank document seen by Reuters. The bank did not reply to a Reuters request for comment."

Expect the value of the rouble (already falling) to tumble further when markets open tomorrow.

Isn’t by stock market standards that‘s a little crooked? I mean they could close the market for a BIG tumble, but remain open and disallow selling? Oh yes you can buy into the Russian market and then you are obligated for life…

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Is this the equivalent of stepping on a rake or falling off a cliff?

Yes, I think that it is.

And - as a European - I will also add a word or two of praise re President Biden; thus far, he has been exemplary - sharing intelligence, calling it correctly, consulting allies, speaking with a measured, moderate, mature tone - in marked contrast to the individual seated at absurdly outsized and ludicrously large tables.

And, while supportive, he has let (or enabled, or encouraged) Europe to lead on this.

Actually, I suspect that Mr Putin despises Mr Biden, and may well see him as an elderly, senile man, lamentably devoid of aggression, cruelty, or a desire to inflict humiliation, hurt and violence or anything remotely macho, - Mr Putin may confuse this with weakness - (yet Mr Biden's son served with the military), for Mr Biden models a form of masculinity while holding power that is sympathetic to, courteous to, and respectful of women, minorities and people of colour.

While Mr Trump is no longer in office, equally interesting is the fact that Dr Merkel no longer is, either; I think that Mr Putin thought to test her successor - Mr Scholz - who is new to his position and possibly (succeeding the almost twenty years of Dr Merkel's rule) not yet fully confident or not yet fully grown into his role as German Chancellor; well, he has grown up - he has had to - at an accelerated rate - this past week-end.

My brother also suggested tonight that Covid may have delayed the implementation of these plans, which may have been scheduled while Mr Trump still held office. Perhaps; but I cannot discount it entirely.

 

[Arkitect]

WTF!?

View attachment 12100
How will he ever find respect now?​

@Huntn
As a gay man, I am asking you what exactly are you implying with that image?
I find it extremely offensive of you to mock Putin by portraying him as a queer man.

 

[Huntn]

WTF!?

@Huntn
As a gay man, I am asking you what exactly are you implying with that image?
I find it extremely offensive of you to mock Putin by portraying him as a queer man.

I did not realize…apologies. I did not realize gay men would tattoo themselves up with Stalin and mother Russia images…

 

[Arkitect]

I did not realize…apologies.

Yah know? Perhaps sometimes just THINK before you reach for the nearest meme.
FFS!

 

[Arkitect]

I did not realize…apologies. I did not realize gay men would tattoo themselves up with Stalin and mother Russia images…

Don't be a smart ass. The rainbow flag?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Yah know? Perhaps sometimes just THINK before you reach for the nearest meme.
FFS!

I loathe memes.

And I had "liked" @Huntn's post before he added that stupid meme.

The point about possibly falling off a cliff remains valid.

 

[Arkitect]

I loathe memes.

And I had "liked" @Huntn's post before he added that stupid meme.

The point about possibly falling off a cliff remains valid.

They have their place sometimes... But often are just mindless.

 

[Huntn]

Yes, I think that it is.

And - as a European - I will also add a word or two of praise re President Biden; thus far, he has been exemplary - sharing intelligence, calling it correctly, speaking with a measured, moderate, mature tone - in marked contrast to the individual seated at absurdly monstrous tables.

And, while supportive, he has let (or enabled, or encouraged) Europe to lead on this.

Actually, I suspect that Mr Putin despises Mr Biden, and may well see him as an elderly, senile man, lamentably devoid of aggression, cruelty, or a desire for violence or anything remotely macho, - Mr Putin may confuse this with weakness - (yet Mr Biden's son served with the military), and yet symathetic to, courteous to, and respectful of women and people of colour.

While Mr Trump is no longer in office, equally interesting is the fact that Dr Merkel no longer is, either; I think that Mr Putin thought to test her successor - Mr Scholz - who is new to his position and possibly (succeeding the almost twenty years of Dr Merkel's rule) not yet fully confident or not yet fully grown into his role as German Chancellor; well, he has grown up - he has had to - at an accelerated rate - this past week-end.

My brother also suggested tonight that Covid may have delayed the implementation of these plans, which may have been scheduled while Mr trump still held office. Perhaps; but I cannot discount it entirely.

After dealing with President Biden’s predecessor, while being giddy with Donny, Biden has to be disappointing to Vlad.

 

[Huntn]

They have there place sometimes... But often are just mindless.

Especially when they offend the alliance. As I said I was blinded by the tattoos, and I did not recognize the rainbow flag. Sorry again.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

They have their place sometimes... But often are just mindless.

Mostly mindless, to my way of thinking.

If it - the power to do so - lay in my hands, I'd ban them. Outright, always and forever.

They are rarely original, or clever, or witty, let alone intelligent.

Instead, mostly, they pretend to be "funny" (and are nothing of the sort) and try to hide behind fake wit in order to give offence.

Above all, they are intellectually lazy.

But, back to Ukraine....

 

[User.45]

Mostly mindless, to my way of thinking.

If it - the power to do so - lay in my hands, I'd ban them. Outright, always and forever.

They are rarely original, or clever, or witty, let alone intelligent.

Instead, mostly, they pretend to be "funny" (and are nothing of the sort) and try to hide behind fake wit in order to give offence.

Memes are mind-viruses. They lack sophistication or accuracy by design, but still way more complex than one would think (just like viral genomes).

Above all, they are intellectually lazy.

The concept is fascinating, because as Dawkins pointed out (who is a pathetic little asshole) they follow principles similar to that of biological evolution.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Memes are mind-viruses. They lack sophistication or accuracy by design, but still way more complex than one would think (just like viral genomes).


The concept is fascinating, because as Dawkins pointed out (who is a pathetic little asshole) they follow principles similar to that of biological evolution.

I loathe them, and - well, it may be intellectual arrogance on my part, I used to be an academic, after all - but I will say that I tend to regard the posts of people who employ them as less, shall we say, intellectually rigorous, less serious, less sophisticated, than of those who take the time and trouble to present their case in mere words.

Anyway, back to Ukraine...

 

[lizkat]

Anyway, back to Ukraine...

Biden consults with allies and also actually does listen to his own advisors, who were picked for their competence. Those behaviors do make for a vastly different US administration compared to what Putin experienced with Trump, who was only pretending to bother with a functional government.

Some Americans and probably others as well are still judging Biden harshly over how the USA's exit from occupation of Afghanistan has proceeded. Anyone who assumed there could be a non-tragic conclusion to that whole situation wasn't paying attention: the USA tried to "keep an eye" on Afghanistan while mostly trying to cope with one after another disaster in the fallout from our having invaded Iraq.​

​

There never has been and may never be a good way for occupiers to leave Afghanistan. That might be especially true for the USA since it was not only distracted but also essentially trying to paper the place over in one generation, with a half baked democracy and a set of related cultural changes, to which there was some enduring resistance outside of a few urban enclaves.​

​

There's a reason they call that piece of this planet a graveyard of empires. Tribal behaviors don't help Afghanistan climb up from poverty and lack of infrastructure, but they do tend to get reinforced every time another foreign occupier packs up and leaves, by invitation of whoever most recently managed to acquire (by force or buyout) the right to show the outsiders the door.​

All that said, it's a big mistake for anyone to assume that the chaos of the US military's departure from Afghanistan was a fair demo of the Biden administration's readiness to deal on the world stage. And right about now, Putin is probably starting to realize that, if he too thought he saw vulnerability there. Trump damaged allies' trust in the USA, but it's becoming clear that the Biden administration is working hard to shift gears and earn back some respect from our allies in Europe.

 

[Zoidberg]

Mostly mindless, to my way of thinking.
They ared rarely original, or clever, or witty, let alone intelligent.
Above all, they are intellectually lazy.

Agreed. But they serve to provide talking points to those who have never read more than two likes of text at a time, and that they do wonderfully well.

Case in point:

As for the rest, regarding Ukraine, while I was initially angry at the EU for being laggy in their response, which at first seemed to be weak, I am extremely pleased to admit that I was wrong and that Ukraine must have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, because the joint response against Putin is now resolute. Letting people in visa-free and even agreeing to shuffle fighter jets around so that those who operate Russian-made ones can send them to the Ukrainian air force (as they similar to the ones the pilots are used to).

Banning RT and Sputnik is the cherry on top (and if only they cracked down on Russian-backed parties, that would be the cherry on top of the cherry).

 

[User.45]

I loathe them, and - well, it may be intellectual arrogance on my part, I used to be an academic, after all - but I will say that I tend to regard the posts of people who employ them as less, shall we say, intellectually rigorous, less serious, less sophisticated, than of those who take the time and trouble to present their case in mere words.

Anyway, back to Ukraine...

 

[MarkusL]

As for the rest, regarding Ukraine, while I was initially angry at the EU for being laggy in their response, which at first seemed to be weak, I am extremely pleased to admit that I was wrong and that Ukraine must have been the straw that broke the camel’s back, because the joint response against Putin is now resolute. Letting people in visa-free and even agreeing to shuffle fighter jets around so that those who operate Russian-made ones can send them to the Ukrainian air force (as they similar to the ones the pilots are used to).

Banning RT and Sputnik is the cherry on top (and if only they cracked down on Russian-backed parties, that would be the cherry on top of the cherry).

Even though it is looking better now it is not wrong to say that the response was laggy. There has been a lot of anxious looking to the sides to see what everyone else is doing, and nobody wants to move first. If it was Finland being attacked I think the Swedish decision to donate anti-tank weapons would have come on Thursday, but for Ukraine it took until Sunday. And who knows how much difference that delay will make?

Considering the long duration of the Russian build-up the thinking and talking should have been complete and the actions should have been immediate.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Even though it is looking better now it is not wrong to say that the response was laggy. There has been a lot of anxious looking to the sides to see what everyone else is doing, and nobody wants to move first. If it was Finland being attacked I think the Swedish decision to donate anti-tank weapons would have come on Thursday, but for Ukraine it took until Sunday. And who knows how much difference that delay will make?

Considering the long duration of the Russian build-up the thinking and talking should have been complete and the actions should have been immediate.

I've worked for the EU, and I've worked with the EU.

By their usual standards, - most such decisons require unanimity, which takes time, as participants must be persuaded of the reason for action, rather than bribed, or bullied, or threatened; this is consensus decision making, which very often - or, almost always - involves complicated compromises, recognises the need for individual governments to be able sell decisions to their electorates and elites in a way that is domestically palatable, therefore, spends considerable time constructing mutually acceptable - and face-saving - solutions - (and, moreover, soft power, rather than hard power, is where their - the EU's traditional strength lies), - their response has occurred at well in excess of warp speed.

 

[Arkitect]

I've worked for the EU, and I've worked with the EU.

By their usual standards, - most such decisons require unanimity, which takes time, as participants must be persuaded of the reason for action, rather than bullied or bribed or threatened, this is consensus decision making, which very often - or, almost always - involves complicated compromises, recognises the need for individual governments to be able sell decisions to their electorates and elites in a way that is domestically palatable, therefore, spends much time constructing mutually acceptable - and face-saving solutions - (and, moreover, soft power, rather than hard power, is where their strength lies), - their response has occurred at well in excess of warp speed.

I was not alone in expecting Hungary to be a stumbling block. But once Orban gave his support it could only be smooth sailing.

For me the surprise is Switzerland (granted, not in the EU) loosening their grip on their "neutrality".
Cynical me thinks that in the wake of the Credit Suisse revelations, it was a bit of PR. They're still a rotten bunch.


Meanwhile, here in Blighty, I wish this Tory government would just shut the F up. Truss and Johnson beating the war drums is not helpful.

Russia blames Liz Truss for nuclear 'special alert'
"There had been statements by various representatives at various levels about possible conflict situations and even collisions and clashes between Nato and the Russian Federation," said Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for Vladimir Putin.

"We consider such statements absolutely unacceptable. I will not name the authors of these statements, although it was the British foreign secretary."