The 2022 Midterms

[Roller]

Their answer should be the same as mine.

Congress passed the PPP loan program. Congress did not pass Biden's handout. According to the Constitution, Congress controls the money, not the President.

Your statement is an oversimplification. Presidents can indeed spend money through executive orders, mostly by reallocating funds, which both Democrats and Republicans chief executives have done. (See https://factcheck.afp.com/us-presidents-can-spend-tax-dollars-executive-orders). In fact, Trump did so several times during his administration, including one instance where he issued an order that deferred student loan payments and interest.

Do you actually believe the electorate cares about the differences between student loan forgiveness through executive order vs. what was a built-in expectation in the Paycheck Protection Program? And both pale compared to the massive handouts to corporations and ultra-wealthy individuals that were included in Trump's 2017 tax cuts.

 

[Huntn]

Absolutely. The real congress scum don’t go on real news outlets, but I seriously want to hear some of the GOP members of congress answer one simple question; “What is the difference between your loan of 180k, 1 million, 2 million dollars being forgiven and someone with college debt having a 10k or 20k loan forgiven?”

I think republicans are really shooting them selves in the foot here, on a variety issues at once, while President Biden racks up wins. When MTG accuses Biden of “buying votes”, why don’t they ask her if her vote was swayed when she got nearly 200k in relief.

Seriously, fuck these hypocrites, it’s hard to stomach at this point.

I tend to view these assholes in Congress as the problem, but really get discouraged when I think about the number of people who created todays GOP, it’s base. When you realize how many people back home voted these unqualified, dipshits in to act in a most un-democratic manner, ie to trash the Federal Government and our laws for their right wing fantasies, it is truly discouraging.

 

[DT]

Seriously, what have those making less than $125K ever done to you guys that's SO bad? These people actually deserve the break, not the ire of career congressmen who have been sucking millions off the tit of huge corporate donations (or handouts as you like to call it) while swatting those just trying to get by in a bad economy.

It's interesting , I've paid a significant amount of tax, I've worked hard to build revenue opportunities and I'm very protective of my business - however, I don't even blink, in fact, I applaud people getting help, improving the country by way of making it's people better, less in debt, more able to seek education, healthier, I'll pay more tax if that helps.

I'll swear there are people if you said, "You can have a 75" TV, or instead a 65" and this person can have healthcare assistance " they tell you to go fuck yourself, they're not watching college football on a small TV ...

 

[Huntn]

Their answer should be the same as mine.

Congress passed the PPP loan program. Congress did not pass Biden's handout. According to the Constitution, Congress controls the money, not the President.

The term you used “handout”and how you used it says it all. The issue is a dysfunctional Congress, a dysfunctional right wing population residing in their personal fantasyland.

 

[Citysnaps]

I often think about why one of the two major political parties in the United States is so deathly afraid of having a well-educated populace.

It's not rocket science understanding why that's the case.

 

[Huntn]

I often think about why one of the two major political parties in the United States is so deathly afraid of having a well-educated populace.

It's not rocket science understanding why that's the case.

Control the sheep, herd the sheep, sheer the sheep, ironically it’s the sheep with poor judgement who elected the fleecers. All you have to do to get sheep support is to appeal to one of their selfish wedge issue, then with glee, they’ll let the fleecer trash the place.

 

[Eric]

It's interesting , I've paid a significant amount of tax, I've worked hard to build revenue opportunities and I'm very protective of my business - however, I don't even blink, in fact, I applaud people getting help, improving the country by way of making it's people better, less in debt, more able to seek education, healthier, I'll pay more tax if that helps.

I'll swear there are people if you said, "You can have a 75" TV, or instead a 65" and this person can have healthcare assistance " they tell you to go fuck yourself, they're not watching college football on a small TV ...

It's all about privilege, I mean "poor" people with refrigerators? WTF kind of bullshit is that.

We need a hard hitting news team to get to the bottom of this.

Meanwhile, $441 billion in Government handouts for oil companies who made $17.9 billion in profits in 2021.

 

[Herdfan]

Funny that it's only a "handout" when the working class that gets the break. The only people this is outraging are stuffy ass Republicans who couldn't give a rats ass about the working class people in this country. Give an oil company a subsidy for 50 times this much while their profits are off the charts and not a word is said, but let a poor person buy a hotdog with food stamps and Republicans suddenly become rabid dogs about it.

Seriously, what have those making less than $125K ever done to you guys that's SO bad? These people actually deserve the break, not the ire of career congressmen who have been sucking millions off the tit of huge corporate donations (or handouts as you like to call it) while swatting those just trying to get by in a bad economy.

So you are willing to set aside the idea that he did not have the authority to do what he did? Even Pelosi said he didn't last year. Here is it right from her own mouth:

 

[Eric]

So you are willing to set aside the idea that he did not have the authority to do what he did? Even Pelosi said he didn't last year. Here is it right from her own mouth:

"The president was not authorized to make such a decision without congressional approval!"
~ The opposing party (regardless of who is in office)

In a nutshell, unless you'll conceded that every decision any president has made of this nature was within their "authority" I submit that this is strictly partisan pandering. Fox News is in full outrage mode and the rest of the world is pointing and laughing at them, FYI there is more than one source for news that isn't in a partisan bubble.

As for this taking front and center stage there are two things to consider. 1) More people are for it than against it in every major poll. 2) On any news organization that isn't Fox News it barely cracked the top stories this week.

It would be fantastic to see the Republican party actually demonize those making more than check to check wages with crippling debt for a change. Try an executive making 300 times their employees salary while getting all the tax breaks, for example.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Their answer should be the same as mine.

Congress passed the PPP loan program. Congress did not pass Biden's handout. According to the Constitution, Congress controls the money, not the President.

That’s a BS answer that reflects the hypocrisy of their outrage over the loan forgiveness. They aren’t arguing about procedural matters, they’re whining “It’s not fair!”. Ted Cruz is making fun of baristas with college debt. Etc.

That’s a politician answer that doesn’t answer the question of why it’s ok for them to have millions forgiven, but not a student to have 10k or 20k forgiven.

But if that’s the answer you’d give, then I’d ask “would you vote for a bill that forgives that amount of debt? And if not, why not? And if you’re against loan forgiveness, why did you accept it?”

I want a real answer, not a typical bullshit one.

It’s just like the GOP scum who
peddle the lie of a rigged election. How many of them resigned in protest or demanded recounts in races they won? How many GOP members of congress from Arizona or Georgia demanded recounts of their own totals?

This is more of the same.

*And to be clear, I haven’t heard a single Republican say “I think this is great for the hardworking men and women who are struggling with college debt, we just want to pass it in the traditional manner through congress. We’ll draft the bill and pass it and President Biden can sign it”.

All I’ve heard is “what about people who paid their debt” and “Why should some gender studies loser get a free 10k to buy their vote!? This is a handout and an attempt to buy votes!”

Not to mention, your answer brings up another problem - why are we letting congress vote on debt relief they themselves are entitled to? And why didn’t they put restrictions in place so that only people who needed the PPP forgiveness could receive it? I’m not happy with a congressman worth millions, who owns several shell companies, being able to vote on his own debt relief, but it happened.

 

[ronntaylor]

Their answer should be the same as mine.

Congress passed the PPP loan program. Congress did not pass Biden's handout. According to the Constitution, Congress controls the money, not the President.

From Fox (where Cedric Richmond appeared, answering questions about the President's authority):

Biden justified the move by invoking the 2003 HEROES Act. Passed in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks and at the height of the War on Terror, the law allows the Secretary of Education to waive or modify student financial aid programs in times of war or national emergency.

Two things will be interesting:

1. Will Republican Attorneys General try to thwart loan forgiveness in their states during this election season?

2. Who will come forward as having legal standing to challenge this, especially with past RW judiciary theory about this very issue?

 

[Herdfan]

In a nutshell, unless you'll conceded that every decision any president has made of this nature was within their "authority" I submit that this is strictly partisan pandering.

Maybe. But if you remember the outrage from the left when Trump tried to use funds from other agencies to build the wall, then one side is no better than the other.

 

[Herdfan]

That’s a BS answer that reflects the hypocrisy of their outrage over the loan forgiveness. They aren’t arguing about procedural matters, they’re whining “It’s not fair!”.

Well, it isn't fair to someone who scrimped and saved to pay off their own loans or wasn't able to afford college in the first place.

 

[DT]

Maybe. But if you remember the outrage from the left when Trump tried to use funds from other agencies to build the wall, then one side is no better than the other.

Dude.

That was less about how that project was funded, vs. what is was, i.e., engineering nonsense, cost impossible, and just a racist dog whistle ...

A wall.

Hahahaha, JFC.

 

[DT]

I remember 3-4 years ago, talking to an acquaintance (a friend-of-very-good-friend) who's a structural engineer, has been involved in massive multi-billion dollar infrastructure projects (usually around bridges), and he was very clear, that the original budget was AT LEAST, 1/10th the real budget - and the maintenance support costs not even factored in (and he didn't even address the effectiveness of the design ...)

 

[Eric]

Well, it isn't fair to someone who scrimped and saved to pay off their own loans or wasn't able to afford college in the first place.

Couldn't you just think of it as a corporate bailout, but ignore the fact that it's only for the working class instead?

 

[lizkat]

Maybe. But if you remember the outrage from the left when Trump tried to use funds from other agencies to build the wall, then one side is no better than the other.

It wasn't just outrage from the left, first of all. Trump's antics in that regard ended up costing him good with with a lot of military families and residents of flood plains along the way, as an unwanted side effect for other Republican pols to have to deal with from coast to coast.

Second, Trump was told NO WAY by Congress like three times before he tried his end run by shuffling funds from DoD and Army Corps of Engineers et al. to try to have it ihs way, which was clearly NOT the will of the people, else he'd have ended up with the extra money in the budget. Also, he wouldn't even entertain suggestions for advancing border security in ways other than "the wall".

So that whole stunt was essentially a grudge match he was launching between him and both chambers of Congress (and leaders in both parties, actually) over what he wanted and wasn't getting.

Whereas... Biden is relying on established provisions allowing changes to regulations of the Education Department's Income-Contingent Repayment programs, already established (and previously used, as well). Best way to explain that is look at this piece in Forbes which describes the background and authorizations, which go back to 1965.

Biden Can Forgive Student Loans By Issuing New Regulations

Although the President cannot legally implement broad student loan forgiveness through an executive order, it may be possible to implement loan forgiveness by issuing new regulations in the Income-Contingent Repayment plan, remaking it into a new loan forgiveness program.

www.forbes.com

 

[GermanSuplex]

Well, it isn't fair to someone who scrimped and saved to pay off their own loans or wasn't able to afford college in the first place.

That’s a valid argument, but again, it loops back to it “not being fair” to everyday working Americans that many of the people in congress whining about this the loudest are the same ones who had millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars forgiven. Money is money, loans are loans, and I want an answer to that hypocrisy.

I want to know why it’s ok for MTG to get 180,000 forgiven but not a college student to have 10k forgiven. A procedural argument doesn’t answer that hypocrisy, and it’s not even an argument they’re making.

 

[lizkat]

Well, it isn't fair to someone who scrimped and saved to pay off their own loans or wasn't able to afford college in the first place.

Yeah. Well I paid all of my student loans back, and why not, since I agreed to do that when I took them out. Does that mean I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth had it come my way? Hell no,

But I'd be happy to help pick up the tab for college students so overburdened now by debt they should never have had to sign up for just to get a decent college education. Way too much marketing in this country, way too much hype on "good schools" and how to get into them, way too much focus on future wealthy alumni and how to engage their parents today, way too much money on administration rather than instruction, too much fancy infrastructure and not enough outright financial assistance in the form of grants and stipends for books or room and board.

Bottom line, way way too much profiteering on the backs of the very future of the nation. It's too late to make that never happen, but it's not too late to say

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sorry our bad we f'd up and you should not have to delay owning a car or house or getting married and starting a family just because a bunch of your profit-hungry elders saw gold in them thar hills when y'all were teens and starting to think what's after high school. ​

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Yeah see we thought about how to turn y'all into money falling off trees for 20 years after you might graduate... or even if you didn't graduate. It worked for awhile... for us the elders, in banking or college admin or marketing or construction or whatever. We have f'g made out like bandits, truth be told.

Now the bill comes due to the nation, and we whine over who should pay. Ain't that the American way.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I remember Bill O’Reilly talking about how he painted houses and such to help pay for college, totally oblivious to the fact painting houses or waiting tables barely even keeps the lights on anymore, let alone allow you to pay for a college education.

It’s a total joke.