USA Election 2024

It's beyond my comprehension how you could vote for a piece of work like T over Biden

Herdfan is a glibertarian, who has bought into the notion that government is without exception irredeemable, its only valid purpose to establish and protect the property rights of its citizens, who should be afforded every opportunity to find a way to make a profit. In that respect, he prefers the basic agenda of the screaming ShitGibbon, even if the man himself induces queasiness. Joe the President just puts too much effort into trying to force people (but mostly businesses) into behaving decently and respecting the rights of others (because my rights are the most important rights).
 
Seriously? He might be annoying and very good at ignoring the obvious to point out everyone else's foibles, but he hasn't done anything worthy of a ban.

I'm not typically advocating bans, but Herdfan's one-sided arguments while ignoring everything else is either pure ignorance (as in he is ignoring all the facts regarding Trump, although he is repeatedly confronted with them in this discussion) or simply trolling.

In a different thread I made a pretty long posting, because I couldn't take his shit anymore (I forgot what the actual trigger was). I predicted in my posting that he would ignore the relevant facts. He ignored the whole post, so I blocked him, because it just isn't worth reading the same lies over and over again.

This is a tech site, which means we argue about facts. If someone is repeatedly selectively ignoring very specific facts, then what's the point still interacting with them?

Is Biden too old? Absolutely! I was of the opinion before he got elected in the first place. But Trump is too old as well. If that's Herdfan's only argument against Biden, then this should exclude Trump as well, but for him it doesn't.
Is Biden better than Trump? A thousand times yes!

If you asked Trump why he wants to be president again, you'll probably hear "to make America great again" (ironically this would include more than the US, which he certainly doesn't mean, but I guess "MUGA" doesn't sound as good). He already had four years to do that. So what was the great thing he did for "America"?
* Tax breaks for the rich?
* Removing migrant children from their parents and putting them in cages?
* Tariff wars that cost the US more money? (But he is the one with the infallible business acumen...)
* Botching the COVID-19 response, which caused thousands of deaths?
* Trying to replace ACA, but failing, because who could have known that such things are so complicated?
* Building the wall? Which isn't really a wall, wasn't complete, and is already falling apart?
* Temporarily blocking travel from certain Muslim countries, but excluding Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the 9/11 terrorists came from, because he has business ties with the Saudis (and his son-in-law later received $2 billion)?
* Pardoning a Navy Seal, who killed unarmed civilians and was accused by his own team?
* Suggesting to nuke hurricanes?
* Suggesting to bomb migrants coming from Mexico? (His argument was that Mexico wouldn't even know where the bombs would come from. I guess he really is this stupid to believe that!)
* Inciting a riot against the Capitol to "stop the steal", although there has been plenty of proof that he knew he lost, and about 50 courts, including judges he appointed, ruled against him?
* I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting a lot of stuff...

From my point of view Trump wants to be president for three reasons:

1. He would be immune to prosecution for another four years, and he'd find a way to become "Emperor of the USA" in the meantime. Also he'd be sure the GOP wouldn't impeach him for anything, because as Susan Collins put it (although she meant it in a different way) "he learned his lesson" twice already.
Why do I know this to be true? An innocent man would try to prove his innocence in court as soon as possible. But all he and his lawyers do is delay, delay, and delay, because this is the only defence he has. Unfortunately, he is aided in this but Judge "loose" Cannon and the Supreme Court.

2. He wants to harm anybody who is against him or who he thinks "wronged" him in the past with the full power of the DoJ.
I don't really have to prove this, you can simply take that from utterances made during his rallies or interviews with him.

3. He absolutely craves the attention and adoration from his followers, otherwise he would feel as insignificant as he really is, and that's something his narcissistic ego just cannot take.
Apparently, he was really miffed when Judge Merchan addressed him as "Mr. Trump" not "President Trump". (BTW, that's a really odd thing to still address an ex-president as "Mr. President" or Giuliani as "Mr. Mayor", despite no having been a mayor for years, What's up with that?)
When he tells his stories about people approaching him, in his own words they always address him as "Sir". While that might have been the fact (although some of his stories are either absolute lies or over exaggerated, especially when they often have "tears in their eyes" -- unless that's due to his allegedly strong body odour), for the story he tells this is a superfluous addition, which means he really wishes to be approached like a king.

Long story short, Trump is a monster who will cause another riot if he doesn't win, and even more harm if he does, because he will transform the USA into a dictatorship and then screw up the whole world.
But Trump is just the most apparent symptom of the real disease, because he was enabled by most of the GOP (they had a chance to impeach him twice and didn't) and millions (as Herdfan stressed) of nutters, who for some reason think he's their saviour, although he wouldn't even pee on them if they were on fire.
 
I'm not typically advocating bans, but Herdfan's one-sided arguments while ignoring everything else is either pure ignorance (as in he is ignoring all the facts regarding Trump, although he is repeatedly confronted with them in this discussion) or simply trolling.

In a different thread I made a pretty long posting, because I couldn't take his shit anymore (I forgot what the actual trigger was). I predicted in my posting that he would ignore the relevant facts. He ignored the whole post, so I blocked him, because it just isn't worth reading the same lies over and over again.

This is a tech site, which means we argue about facts. If someone is repeatedly selectively ignoring very specific facts, then what's the point still interacting with them?

Is Biden too old? Absolutely! I was of the opinion before he got elected in the first place. But Trump is too old as well. If that's Herdfan's only argument against Biden, then this should exclude Trump as well, but for him it doesn't.
Is Biden better than Trump? A thousand times yes!

If you asked Trump why he wants to be president again, you'll probably hear "to make America great again" (ironically this would include more than the US, which he certainly doesn't mean, but I guess "MUGA" doesn't sound as good). He already had four years to do that. So what was the great thing he did for "America"?
* Tax breaks for the rich?
* Removing migrant children from their parents and putting them in cages?
* Tariff wars that cost the US more money? (But he is the one with the infallible business acumen...)
* Botching the COVID-19 response, which caused thousands of deaths?
* Trying to replace ACA, but failing, because who could have known that such things are so complicated?
* Building the wall? Which isn't really a wall, wasn't complete, and is already falling apart?
* Temporarily blocking travel from certain Muslim countries, but excluding Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the 9/11 terrorists came from, because he has business ties with the Saudis (and his son-in-law later received $2 billion)?
* Pardoning a Navy Seal, who killed unarmed civilians and was accused by his own team?
* Suggesting to nuke hurricanes?
* Suggesting to bomb migrants coming from Mexico? (His argument was that Mexico wouldn't even know where the bombs would come from. I guess he really is this stupid to believe that!)
* Inciting a riot against the Capitol to "stop the steal", although there has been plenty of proof that he knew he lost, and about 50 courts, including judges he appointed, ruled against him?
* I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting a lot of stuff...

From my point of view Trump wants to be president for three reasons:

1. He would be immune to prosecution for another four years, and he'd find a way to become "Emperor of the USA" in the meantime. Also he'd be sure the GOP wouldn't impeach him for anything, because as Susan Collins put it (although she meant it in a different way) "he learned his lesson" twice already.
Why do I know this to be true? An innocent man would try to prove his innocence in court as soon as possible. But all he and his lawyers do is delay, delay, and delay, because this is the only defence he has. Unfortunately, he is aided in this but Judge "loose" Cannon and the Supreme Court.

2. He wants to harm anybody who is against him or who he thinks "wronged" him in the past with the full power of the DoJ.
I don't really have to prove this, you can simply take that from utterances made during his rallies or interviews with him.

3. He absolutely craves the attention and adoration from his followers, otherwise he would feel as insignificant as he really is, and that's something his narcissistic ego just cannot take.
Apparently, he was really miffed when Judge Merchan addressed him as "Mr. Trump" not "President Trump". (BTW, that's a really odd thing to still address an ex-president as "Mr. President" or Giuliani as "Mr. Mayor", despite no having been a mayor for years, What's up with that?)
When he tells his stories about people approaching him, in his own words they always address him as "Sir". While that might have been the fact (although some of his stories are either absolute lies or over exaggerated, especially when they often have "tears in their eyes" -- unless that's due to his allegedly strong body odour), for the story he tells this is a superfluous addition, which means he really wishes to be approached like a king.

Long story short, Trump is a monster who will cause another riot if he doesn't win, and even more harm if he does, because he will transform the USA into a dictatorship and then screw up the whole world.
But Trump is just the most apparent symptom of the real disease, because he was enabled by most of the GOP (they had a chance to impeach him twice and didn't) and millions (as Herdfan stressed) of nutters, who for some reason think he's their saviour, although he wouldn't even pee on them if they were on fire.
It's not an exaggeration to say Trump is the most dangerous American politician in living memory, not because others haven't been as horrible, but because he's been elected once and may soon be again. What's especially sad is that so many people believe our institutions, particularly the SCOTUS and the Congress, will function as bulwarks against Trump's most menacing plans when it's clear they won't or will do the opposite. Many Republican office-holders know this, but they won't speak out because they're convinced they and their families won't suffer adverse consequences.
 
Sadly... it appears Biden's 22 minute interview with Stephanopoulos has done little (nothing, imo) to quell concerns about his fitness to hold office. Indeed, more House dems are calling for him to step aside.

 
He has a constant confused look on his face and simply can't articulate a coherent response. Since he's holding the party hostage they're better off keeping him in the basement and absolutely no more debates. At this point I'm accepting a Trump presidency but I'll still vote form him regardless as a vote against Trump.

History will likely see him as a president who handed the country Donald Trump for a second term.
 
I was but, again, it was more about the moment. He's often risen to the occasion when required. He didn't here.

This. I’ve seen Biden tired and slow, less engaged and more engaged. He’s usually on when needed. It was the stakes in the debate that made it jarring to see him low energy. He was trying to come up with facts, data, bills, etc, whereas Trump is like a pull toy - just pull the string and “third world country, our enemies respected us (they didn’t), the border is a disaster, we’re a failing nation.”

Over and over.
 
For sure. Those of us old enough to remember how Gary Hart's bid was ended because of his affairs (the story was worse than we thought at the time according to this article) know Trump should have been kicked to the curb by the Republicans long ago. Instead, they got to the point where literally nothing is disqualifying. I was speaking to a friend in Europe recently and he couldn't believe the situation we've gotten ourselves into in this country.
I am European. Indeed, it's unfathomable to close to everyone that someone like Trump could possibly succed. He's seen as the buffoon he is. We are concerned. Even freightened
 
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Yes, both sides should be given equal weight, like discrediting vaccines, global warming, the holocaust, etc. reality has no place in our politics.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he 'won't take sides' on what happened on 9/11
 
Yes, both sides should be given equal weight, like discrediting vaccines, global warming, the holocaust, etc. reality has no place in our politics.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he 'won't take sides' on what happened on 9/11

I almost have more respect for Trump, he will go out there and PROUDLY pick the wrong side.
 
I almost have more respect for Trump, he will go out there and PROUDLY pick the wrong side.
Seeing that most don't like either of the two candidates he can siphon votes if it's close. One could argue without Nader, Gore would have won.
 
Seeing that most don't like either of the two candidates he can siphon votes if it's close. One could argue without Nader, Gore would have won.
I agree about the effect Nader had on the 2000 election, but I’m not sure which candidate RFK Jr. is more likely to siphon votes from. Republicans have been donating to him, so they obviously think he’ll capture votes from Biden.
 
ut If he wins, what would happen if he stepped aside in his first year, having staved off another Trump presidency?

No, that is not what he would do. He should wait until January 21st 2027, so that he would have been in office for more than half a term: that way, Kamala would be eligible to run for President on her own twice.
 
No, that is not what he would do. He should wait until January 21st 2027, so that he would have been in office for more than half a term: that way, Kamala would be eligible to run for President on her own twice.
Good point, assuming he could hang on for two years.
 
Donald Trump is trying to have his cake and eat it too with Project 25. In a post, he said he knows little of it, thinks some things are good and some are terrible - but wishes them luck.

This guy has no backbone, not really. I have to imagine that is going to piss some of his supporters off.

I still content Biden is the best way forward. We have options after that. It’s all a guess at this point. Biden’s black support has dropped a bit, but it’s loyal. If it’s not Biden or Harris, they will be pissed. At the end of the day, those on the fence will have to choose if they vote, and I see more people - including in places where it matters - voting Biden. Trump is too toxic, I’m not really sure how much of America is tuned in to this nonsense. Polls are all over the place, Trump had a mini-surge but I’m also seeing polls very favorable to Biden.

I don’t think he’s had the comeback he needs yet, but I think he’s done enough over the days to calm at least a few nerves.
 
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