USA Election 2024

[Renzatic]

There are reports that some Progressives and Republicans worked together to remove Shapiro as the VP pick. Progressives because they seem to think we live in Israel and Republicans because they believed he would be the hardest to attack and do battle with. So mission accomplished on that one.

If this is true, then progressives have to be the stupidest bunch of pundits in Washington, just behind the MAGA faithful.

"We don't want someone who will endanger our pro-Palestine stance, so let's compromise, and risk everything else."

 

[cbum]

I kick back on the notion that pro Palestinian progressives are classically antisemitic.

Basically agree, although there is some overlap.
But IMHO, this was really about not loosing the hard-won unity of purpose for the democrats, a rare state of affairs entirely due to Joe's unique sacrifice.
Gaza is an unsolvable problem (as long as Bibi is running the show) that can easily wreak havoc on the democratic effort.

 

[dada_dave]

There are reports that some Progressives and Republicans worked together to remove Shapiro as the VP pick. Progressives because they seem to think we live in Israel and Republicans because they believed he would be the hardest to attack and do battle with. So mission accomplished on that one.

I kick back on the notion that pro Palestinian progressives are classically antisemitic. Their beliefs are 100% about what is going on in Gaza and Israel just happens to be a Jewish state. If it were Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist it wouldn’t change how they feel about the situation. However, the current views of all the VP candidates on Israel/Gaza are roughly the same. Shapiro was the only Jew in the group. Be better, Progressives. Especially if you’re trying to fight the label of being antisemitic.

I don’t take such reports seriously or at least view them as having a significant influence as reports are that one of the primary motivations in choosing between them was that Shapiro wants to run for president one day and doesn’t really want to be VP before he does that - a perfectly valid reason especially given that there’s an equal or better option on the table. That’s what those with sources inside campaign have said. Again, this wasn’t a question of blame, just an explanation why everyone, including Shapiro, was pretty happy with how things turned out.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

If this is true, then progressives have to be the stupidest bunch of pundits in Washington, just behind the MAGA faithful.

"We don't want someone who will endanger our pro-Palestine stance, so let's compromise, and risk everything else."

The extremes of both sides suffer sever tunnel vision. They see a lot of the same problems and sometimes agree on the cause, but unfortunately the right is too easily lead on scapegoat scavenger hunts and get convinced the powerless are to blame for the problems caused by the powerful.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I don’t take such reports seriously or at least view them as having a significant influence as reports are that one of the primary motivations in choosing between them was that Shapiro wants to run for president one day and doesn’t really want to be VP before he does that - a perfectly valid reason especially given that there’s an equal or better option on the table. That’s what those with sources inside campaign have said. Again, this wasn’t a question of blame, just an explanation why everyone, including Shapiro, was pretty happy with how things turned out.

I also heard that Shapiro is perfectly happy where he is at and the VP spot would be a downgrade. It is mostly a thankless symbolic job.

I wonder where Newsom is on all this. Clearly he wants to be President someday but I think he has a knack for timing. He's disciplined enough to know he doesn't need to plow through every open door.

 

[dada_dave]

I also heard that Shapiro is perfectly happy where he is at and the VP spot would be a downgrade. It is mostly a thankless symbolic job.

I wonder where Newsom is on all this. Clearly he wants to be President someday but I think he has a knack for timing. He's disciplined enough to know he doesn't need to plow through every open door.

Sorry for potentially misunderstanding Newsom was never an option for VP - both being from California would’ve been a really, really bad idea. That’s one reason why Kelly was probably a distant third even though Arizona is a swing state. A Midwestern state is where the campaign needed buttressing the most.

 

[rdrr]

Sorry for potentially misunderstanding Newsom was never an option for VP - both being from California would’ve been a really, really bad idea. That’s one reason why Kelly was probably a distant third even though Arizona is a swing state. A Midwestern state is where the campaign needed buttressing the most.

Not to mention one of them would have had to change their home state. That pesky 12th Amendment issue wouldn't have made it possible.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Sorry for potentially misunderstanding Newsom was never an option for VP - both being from California would’ve been a really, really bad idea. That’s one reason why Kelly was probably a distant third even though Arizona is a swing state. A Midwestern state is where the campaign needed buttressing the most.

I agree Newsom was never a viable candidate for VP. I meant in general political terms. He basically went silent.

I think he knows exactly what the right will attack him for and some validity to those points. The country needs to be in the right place for his politics and as a CA resident I hope he works on making some of those liabilities less of an issue while he’s in office

 

[rdrr]

I agree Newsom was never a viable candidate for VP. I meant in general political terms. He basically went silent.

I think he knows exactly what the right will attack him for and some validity to those points. The country needs to be in the right place for his politics and as a CA resident I hope he works on making some of those liabilities less of an issue while he’s in office

Agreed! The right initially attacked Walz as a California liberal wannabe, imagine if somehow Newsom move his address to MN?

Wannabe Midwesterner with California liberal ideals.

No best to wait for the right timing, but I think he has to throw his hat into the ring in 2028. If Harris wins and carries two terms, Walz will be 68 and Newsom will be 64, and we are will just be back to old white men running the show. The good news is that in 2032 Trump will be 86 and still be doing the same old schick, but with less stamina.

 

[Eric]

We'll surely hear more about this from Republicans but it's hard to imagine that the Harris campaign wasn't aware of it. Seems unlikely to do much damage.

 

[rdrr]

We'll surely hear more about this from Republicans but it's hard to imagine that the Harris campaign wasn't aware of it. Seems unlikely to do much damage.

What is funny about this is the Right is ignoring the fact that a recently convicted felon that is the nominee for their party.

 

[Yoused]

What is funny about this, is the right is ignoring the recently convicted felon that is the nominee for their party.

And Walz himself was not convicted of a felony – he pled down to reckless driving.

 

[rdrr]

And Walz himself was not convicted of a felony – he pled down to reckless driving.

Exactly, should have mentioned that fact in my post.

 

[Herdfan]

Sorry for potentially misunderstanding Newsom was never an option for VP - both being from California would’ve been a really, really bad idea. That’s one reason why Kelly was probably a distant third even though Arizona is a swing state. A Midwestern state is where the campaign needed buttressing the most.

But Minnesota isn't really a swing state. Shapiro from PA would have been a better EC choice, but he's Jewish and right now the Dems have a Jewish problem.

 

[Eric]

What is funny about this is the Right is ignoring the fact that a recently convicted felon that is the nominee for their party.

I think at some point we'll have to stop comparing Trump to people from our side (I'm the worst offender of this) because the bar is so low that no normal person would ever be that bad. We need to start looking forward and get back to what's considered normal standards, and on that scale something this old that was pled down doesn't seem like it'll be very damaging.

 

[Eric]

But Minnesota isn't really a swing state. Shapiro from PA would have been a better EC choice,

Agreed, I'm not a fan of the guy but he is a rising star, we'll have to see where it takes us.

but he's Jewish and right now the Dems have a Jewish problem.

I don't agree with this at all, she's married to a Jewish person which really takes the punch out of this argument but I know it's in the Republican playbook right now. My feeling was that he was too much about himself, I mean look at the way he handled those pressers before she announced, the way he came off was a bit arrogant to me. I could see where he and Kamala could clash and she likely didn't want to risk it.

 

[Yoused]

But Minnesota isn't really a swing state. Shapiro from PA would have been a better EC choice, but he's Jewish and right now the Dems have a Jewish problem.

The team (not Ms Harris herself) looks at a lot of different things when making a selection. Walz does appear to be the person most likely to give her campaign a boost. He is likeable (opposite of Misogynist Couchfucker), Minnesota is right next to Wisconsin (might help some) and he is not a really old guy.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Tough guy JD Vance is attacking Walz’s military career. Republicans have lost the plot with these guys, throwing out all their morals and values to worship the steak salesman. 40 year old billionaire-backed, San Francisco-dwelling big-tech blowhard with zero charisma blasting someone who’s achieved a hell of a lot more than he has, personally and politically.

JD Vance is really selling his ass for his next come up. I hope his attacks backfire. Nobody has accused Walz of being a war hero, from my knowledge, but Vance is accusing him of “stolen valor”, as if over two decades of service means nothing. He was the highest ranking service member of the house, ffs. What has Vance ever done besides verbally blow whatever crowd would get him a promotion? He’s a perfect fit for Trump, someone projecting their defects and engaging in all of the activity they pretend to rail against. A grifting charlatan.

Oh, what was that, a DUI arrest from three decades ago? Right around the same time convicted felon Trump was raping a woman in a dressing room.

 

[Roller]

But Minnesota isn't really a swing state. Shapiro from PA would have been a better EC choice, but he's Jewish and right now the Dems have a Jewish problem.

You're saying choosing Shapiro would have helped the Dems get Pennsylvania, which may be true. But would his being Jewish have helped or hurt with Jewish voters? Your phrasing makes it seem like it would have been the latter.

Regardless, other Jews I talk to know how foolish it would be to vote for Trump because of his ostensible greater support for Israel. They realize how much more is at stake in this election, and Trump's hanging out with Nazis like Nick Fuentes certainly doesn't endear him to them. And this applies to Jews who are strong supporters of Israel. Sure, there are some single-issue Jewish voters who will choose Trump, but I think they'll be in the minority.

 

[dada_dave]

but he's Jewish and right now the Dems have a Jewish problem.

I'm not going to sugar coat this: that's an embarrassingly dumb thing to say. Every single Jewish Senator, including the Senate Majority Leader chosen from the party to lead the Senate, is a Democrat and all but 2 Jewish Congressmen are also Democrats. The Republican Leadership hangs out with Nazis like Fuentes and went to his far right conference - even beyond Trump, the Republicans have a problem with the kind of antisemitism we keep telling ourselves doesn't exist anymore.

You're saying choosing Shapiro would have helped the Dems get Pennsylvania, which may be true. But would his being Jewish have helped or hurt with Jewish voters? Your phrasing makes it seem like it would have been the latter.

Regardless, other Jews I talk to know how foolish it would be to vote for Trump because of his ostensible greater support for Israel. They realize how much more is at stake in this election, and Trump's hanging out with Nazis like Nick Fuentes certainly doesn't endear him to them. And this applies to Jews who are strong supporters of Israel. Sure, there are some single-issue Jewish voters who will choose Trump, but I think they'll be in the minority.

He's saying non-Jewish Democrats wouldn't have voted for Shapiro solely because he's Jewish. Which is incredible since apparently he won the Governor's office in Pennsylvania without Democrats voting for him and enjoys high approval within Pennsylvania. Oh I know ... I guess every Democrat in Pennsylvania must be Jewish ... or must not know their Governor is Jewish ... since you know Democrats have "a Jewish problem". Mind boggling.

And from what I can also tell, a lot of Jews regardless of their stance of Israel, find being conflated with Israel pretty fucking anti-semitic itself. Hence, why Trump agreeing to the description of Harris' husband as a "a bad Jew" (which Trump has also used to describe every other Jewish Democrat too) was pretty much on the nose for Trump. Jewish Americans are Americans not Israelis just like any group of non WASP-Americans are Americans not whatever nation state they may harken back to (@Roller just to be clear this mini-rant is not aimed at you).