With Friends Like These…

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472740905509662727/
https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472746856933249026/
https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472728902623768584/

And...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472638494644359177/

 

[Herdfan]

The Democrats need to primary him. If it goes wrong and they ultimately lose the seat, well, what have they lost?

That would require winning two tough elections. First, it would be extremely hard to primary him as he won his last primary 70-30. Second, any Dem but Manchin would most likely lose the General as the state's other Senator, a Republican, won 70-27 with the Libertarian getting 3.

 

[Huntn]

That would require winning two tough elections. First, it would be extremely hard to primary him as he won his last primary 70-30. Second, any Dem but Manchin would most likely lose the General as the state's other Senator, a Republican, won 70-27 with the Libertarian getting 3.

As a State, West Virginia would be at or near the top of the list of States who would benefit from the liberal agenda. Maybe the people of West Virginia perceive too much money flowing to large cities of which they have none or maybe racism is getting the better of them? (asking not accusing).

I have witnessed, a white daughter-in-law who grew up poor (in Minnesota) who resents/ed blacks who appear too prosperous, and is a Trump supporter. She is a vgood example of a racist mindset that draws people without means (at one point in her case) towards fast talking crooks and sociopaths as long as they are white, they are better than black. I’d describe this as misguided white privilege.

On my wife’s side of the family, she has a entire clan of conservative, Trump supporting yahoos living in central Texas. They have some Indian blood, and an all star professional black athlete in their family, but their perceived whiteness appears to trumps all other factors. I am convinced that racism is a, if not the deciding factor in their outlook on life and hostility towards a liberal agenda that pushes equal rights and opportunity. Bull shit on that as far as they are concerned, my impression.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Watching the Sunday news shows, some are saying that “well Manchin never changed his stance.” Um, this entire thread is full of the ever-shifting sands of Manchin‘s requirements.

Also, why is it that these people think that everybody should have done exactly what Manchin wanted, and that he shouldn’t have compromised on anything? Manchin got 290,000 votes in 2018. Biden got 81 million in 2020… and yet everybody is supposed to do whatever Manchin wants?

The argument was “‘he said $1.5 trillion and it was $1.7 trillion, and that‘s the reason; the Dems are stupid for not dropping it to $1.5 trillion.” To the talking heads spouting this nonsense: look back at Manchin’s statements and you see he wouldn’t have been happy even if it was $1.50. He is not a team player; he only cares about Joe Manchin.

Not to split hairs here, but the original pie in the sky cost estimate was $6 trillion. So they've currently reduced the cost by over 70%. What kind of man would Manchin be if he decided that was good enough? Compromise in today's politics means a reduction of at least 90% and then complain government is ineffectual and that 10% was a complete waste of taxpayer money for not fixing anything.

Manchin and Sinema are now legislating on 80% corruption and 20% spite against their own party and their voters. In better times (for them) they could have gotten away with this shit unnoticed. Unfortunately for them in today's reality their vote makes a huge difference but since they ultimately got into politics for personal gain they shouldn't let the intense scrutiny get in the way of their retirement plan. You gotta look out for #1.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Just so we can definitively put this to rest about whether Manchin intentionally lied to Biden & everyone else all this time...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472954156071727105/

How the fuck do you get mad at others, because it's tiresome to maintain your own lie? There's a reason we learn as children, it's easier to just tell the truth, over having to keep up a lie. What the fuck kind of individual gets mad, because their own bullshit becomes annoying & people have the gall to naively think you're being honest? The gall of people trying to "negotiate" with a guy who asked to be negotiated with, even though he knew he was full of shit himself the whole time. The gall!

From the man himself. He enjoyed the attention & spotlight he was given as the new "king" of American politics, but as suspected he was an untrustworthy one. His bullshit continues as he tries spin his way out of his place in history, and it's of course another pile of lies.

The Utter Hollowness of Joe Manchin

The senator from West Virginia used lies or willful ignorance to justify nuking the Build Back Better Act.

gizmodo.com

Manchin claimed the national debt is among the things leaving us vulnerable. Tell that to the people who lost loved ones or their homes this summer and the generations who will have to live with his decision to not support a climate policy that was the barest minimum.

But the beating heart of darkness in Manchin’s statement isn’t his misread of vulnerability. It’s the following statement on the grid (emphasis added):

If enacted, the bill will also risk the reliability of our electric grid and increase our dependence on foreign supply chains. The energy transition my colleagues seek is already well underway in the United States of America. In the last two years, as Chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee and with bipartisan support, we have invested billions of dollars into clean energy technologies so we can continue to lead the world in reducing emissions through innovation. But to do so at a rate that is faster than technology or the markets allow will have catastrophic consequences for the American people like we have seen in both Texas and California in the last two years.

This last part is the most mendacious part of Manchin’s statement. Arguing inflation makes people vulnerable—which Manchin does in his statement—is fair (putting aside that Manchin’s “no” on Build Back Better just cut off hundreds of dollars in benefits tied to the child tax credit that means people will have less money in their pockets.) But to pretend the blackouts that hit California and Texas are examples of what happens when you go toward renewables too fast is an utter lie.

As Texas’ February blackout was happening, it was clear that deregulation meant natural gas infrastructure wasn’t ready for the cold snap and froze up. A peer-reviewed analysis published months afterward confirmed this.

“The next crisis may very well be crippling summer heat so preparing to avoid the next freeze won’t deal with the broader problem that our climate is changing and our infrastructure is designed for the 1960s, not the 2060s,” Joshua Busby, a distinguished scholar at the University of Texas’ Strauss Center and lead author of the report, told me at the time the peer-reviewed study came out.

California’s blackouts have also been caused by gas failing to meet demand. And why has demand been so high? Because it’s too fucking hot and people are running air conditioning to [checks notes] not die. Planned blackouts have also hit the state because, again, it’s too fucking hot and the grid is prone to causing explosive wildfires in those conditions.

You know what would’ve helped deal with these issues? The Build Back Better Act, which included tax credits that would’ve created hundreds of thousands of jobs, connected the grid more cohesively to ensure reliability, and driven down utility bills, according to an analysis by the American Council on Renewable Energy.

Maybe Joe Manchin just couldn’t be bothered to read up on this stuff between his weekly meetings with Exxon or counting the $220,602 from the utility industry and $763,407 from the oil and gas industry he’s received this election cycle, according to federal election data. Which, I mean, fair—that’s a lot of counting. (It took MrBeast 40 hours to get to 100,000 out loud!)

Manchin’s actions and his mention of wanting to protect the “vulnerable” in his statement are, I think, telling. Folks in West Virginia suffer from the most unreliable grid under normal circumstances (read: no wildfires or other shocks) in the U.S. They, like millions of other Americans, rely on outdated, polluting technology to keep the lights on and would benefit from the fixes in the Build Back Better Act—fixes that would also slow down climate change and provide still more benefits.

Manchin NEVER gave a shit about what the country wanted, or what the majority of his own state wanted. Manchin was only about himself, his newfound importance, and the energy concerns he's beholden too.

We've been so worried about the upcoming demagogue that the other party is so hellbent on putting back in power ( contrary to their supposed love for democracy & patriotism ), many didn't want to pay attention to the one we already had. One man who gladly tanked what maybe good for the entire country, the people he was elected to serve , for what's good for him & his own family.

Merry Christmas.

I wonder if Sinema will learn from all of this & this classic bit of asshatery

and try to keep the lowest profile until next year, when it's time for renewed bullshit in congress.

Bonus:

Goldman Sachs cuts US economic forecast after Joe Manchin rejects Build Back Better

Senator Joe Manchin's opposition to the Build Back Better Act prompted Goldman Sachs to swiftly dim its US economic outlook.

www.cnn.com

(CNN Business)Senator Joe Manchin's opposition to the Build Back Better Act prompted Goldman Sachs to swiftly dim its US economic outlook.

The Wall Street firm told clients Sunday it no longer assumes President Joe Biden's signature legislation will get through the narrowly divided Congress, citing the West Virginia Democrat's announcement that he's a "no" on the $1.75 trillion bill.

"A failure to pass BBB has negative growth implications," Goldman Sachs economists, led by Jan Hatzius, said in the research report.
Citing the "apparent demise" of Build Back Better, Goldman Sachs now expects GDP to grow at an annualized pace of 2% in the first quarter, down from 3% previously.

The bank also trimmed its GDP forecasts for the second quarter to 3% (from 3.5% previously) and the third quarter to 2.75% (compared with 3% previously). It specifically pointed to the expiration of the child tax credit and the lack of the other new spending that had been anticipated.

Goldman Sachs (GS) reiterated that upcoming inflation reports are not likely to help swing the tide back in favor of Build Back Better. The consumer price index (CPI) rose in November by 6.8% from the year earlier, the biggest 12-month jump in 39 years.

yaay...

"With friends like these"

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Just so we can definitively put this to rest about whether Manchin intentionally lied to Biden & everyone else all this time...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472954156071727105/

How the fuck do you get mad at others, because it's tiresome to maintain your own lie? There's a reason we learn as children, it's easier to just tell the truth, over having to keep up a lie. What the fuck kind of individual gets mad, because their own bullshit becomes annoying & people have the gall to naively think you're being honest? The gall of people trying to "negotiate" with a guy who asked to be negotiated with, even though he knew he was full of shit himself the whole time. The gall!

From the man himself. He enjoyed the attention & spotlight he was given as the new "king" of American politics, but as suspected he was an untrustworthy one. His bullshit continues as he tries spin his way out of his place in history, and it's of course another pile of lies.








Manchin NEVER gave a shit about what the country wanted, or what the majority of his own state wanted. Manchin was only about himself, his newfound importance, and the energy concerns he's beholden too.

We've been so worried about the upcoming demagogue that the other party is so hellbent on putting back in power ( contrary to their supposed love for democracy & patriotism ), many didn't want to pay attention to the one we already had. One man who gladly tanked what maybe good for the entire country, the people he was elected to serve , for what's good for him & his own family.

Merry Christmas.

I wonder if Sinema will learn from all of this & this classic bit of asshatery

and try to keep the lowest profile until next year, when it's time for renewed bullshit in congress.

Most of what is in the BBB bill won’t benefit me directly or in the near future, but I know for those that it does it will be a blow against Trumpism which unfortunately is the only alternative barrel of the gun we’re looking down. The fact that so many in Congress which includes all Republicans, Manchin and Sinema, and all other Democrats who let them take the public shaming but agree with them, are blind to this is incomprehensible. At best they are hoping for the protection of their wealthy donors, both financial and physical, for when shit really gets crazy here. There’s no other way to look at it.

 

[Herdfan]

Just so we can definitively put this to rest about whether Manchin intentionally lied to Biden & everyone else all this time...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472954156071727105/

Well in an interview, she was saying that she represented as many people as Manchin, maybe more.

So either she is very misinformed or outright lying.

Her district has around 700K. WV has 1.8M. She is off by over a factor of 2.5.

But I get math is hard, especially for someone with an Econ degree from a top tier university.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Which is only marginally related to the discussion at hand.

You know where AOC and most other Democrats stand on an issue. With Manchin and Sinema, you never know. Trying to get a straightforward commitment out of either of them is like trying to screw fog.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Which is only marginally related to the discussion at hand.

You know where AOC and most other Democrats stand on an issue. With Manchin and Sinema, you never know. Trying to get a straightforward commitment out of either of them is like trying to screw fog.

All arrows point to corruption and personal gain. They aren’t alone in this. The spotlight just happens to be on them. They also probably believe their no votes will be forgotten and have no long-term consequences while towing their donor lines will make sure they are set for life. They can watch the violent skirmishes between the commoners from the safety of their yachts. "I don't know what their issues are. Pass me a lime."

 

[JayMysteri0]

Sheesh! The more that this gets coverage the more this guy sounds like he should be a resident of the TF Guy thread. Or 'r' agenda thread...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472990968202678274/

Basically, he questioned if his own most vulnerable constituents who probably voted for him, could be trusted a helping hand.

This picture takes new meaning when you consider if you were in trouble, there would be NO lifeline thrown

 

[JayMysteri0]

The punchline? In the nuts that is...

Manchin to Dems: Redo the whole thing, maybe I'll vote for it

The West Virginia senator wants a new bill that goes through Senate committees and focuses on rolling back the 2017 Trump tax cuts.

www.politico.com

Joe Manchin has some advice for fellow Democrats: rebuild Build Back Better and you might still get my vote.

One day after sinking President Joe Biden’s signature social and climate spending legislation, Manchin (D-W.Va.) laid out a path forward that could take months and still fail. He wants the legislation to go through Senate committees and focus on rolling back the 2017 Trump tax cuts. He also wants Democrats to stop trying to force him into compliance.

“I knew what they could and could not do. They just never realized it, because they figure surely to God we can move one person. Surely, we can badger and beat one person up,” Manchin said on West Virginia MetroNews, his first response to the blowback he’s taken from the White House and Democrats for tanking Biden’s signature legislation.

He added: “Well, guess what? I'm from West Virginia. I'm not from where they're from, [where] they can just beat the living crap out of people and think they’ll be submissive.”

 

[SuperMatt]

Haha redo it and you MIGHT get his vote. If this guy thinks the Dems will ever give him anything again, he is dreaming.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Sheesh! The more that this gets coverage the more this guy sounds like he should be a resident of the TF Guy thread. Or 'r' agenda thread...

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1472990968202678274/

Basically, he questioned if his own most vulnerable constituents who probably voted for him, could be trusted a helping hand.

This picture takes new meaning when you consider if you were in trouble, there would be NO lifeline thrown

It seems like some politicians only want to help their constituents with lip service concern in the hopes that no actual help will be offered. As soon as it is on the table they’ll show their true colors. Luckily for politicians like that Republicans will probably retake Congress in 2022 and then they don’t have to worry about any actual help being put on the table.

 

[JayMysteri0]

It seems like some politicians only want to help their constituents with lip service concern in the hopes that no actual help will be offered. As soon as it is on the table they’ll show their true colors. Luckily for politicians like that Republicans will probably retake Congress in 2022 and then they don’t have to worry about any actual help being put on the table.

That's the head scratching part of all this. Manchin stepped up & embraced the spotlight that came with making yourself your party's chief roadblock. With only Sinema stepping up & curtsying for her time in the spotlight. The other dems knew enough to shut up, and probably hope the attention would ordinarily focus on the 'r's obstructing anything that's considered good for the country that they can't claim sole credit for. Now it doesn't matter what Manchin says, he's on record as intentionally lying to the president, stringing him along, as well as his party, and the majority of the country while he was tripping on the power.

Haha redo it and you MIGHT get his vote. If this guy thinks the Dems will ever give him anything again, he is dreaming.

I sadly suspect some will call for that, saying it's unavoidable. Just to continue to use Manchin as cover.

The real problem for Manchin is that some dems have finally caught on and / or finally listened, and began considering other ways without the anchor from WVa. Manchin can't have that. It removes Manchin from the spotlight, doesn't guarantee he can squash the specifics he really wanted gone, and puts him on record as the asshat that inspired the dems to try another way around 'r's AND him & Sinema. The nightmare scenario is that the dems do figure a way & not shoot themselves in the foot. Leaving Manchin to go home trying to retcon history why he's not the 'bad guy'. Which will be a neat trick, since the other big thing in the first year of the Biden presidency besides Covid & Afghanistan, is that does 'king' Joe want this week to get him to keep his own word.

I'm hoping the dems can figure something out, just to see how mealy mouthed Manchin gets with his own constituents he knowingly mocked and let down.

 

[SuperMatt]

That's the head scratching part of all this. Manchin stepped up & embraced the spotlight that came with making yourself your party's chief roadblock. With only Sinema stepping up & curtsying for her time in the spotlight. The other dems knew enough to shut up, and probably hope the attention would ordinarily focus on the 'r's obstructing anything that's considered good for the country that they can't claim sole credit for. Now it doesn't matter what Manchin says, he's on record as intentionally lying to the president, stringing him along, as well as his party, and the majority of the country while he was tripping on the power.



I sadly suspect some will call for that, saying it's unavoidable. Just to continue to use Manchin as cover.

The real problem for Manchin is that some dems have finally caught on and / or finally listened, and began considering other ways without the anchor from WVa. Manchin can't have that. It removes Manchin from the spotlight, doesn't guarantee he can squash the specifics he really wanted gone, and puts him on record as the asshat that inspired the dems to try another way around 'r's AND him & Sinema. The nightmare scenario is that the dems do figure a way & not shoot themselves in the foot. Leaving Manchin to go home trying to retcon history why he's not the 'bad guy'. Which will be a neat trick, since the other big thing in the first year of the Biden presidency besides Covid & Afghanistan, is that does 'king' Joe want this week to get him to keep his own word.

I'm hoping the dems can figure something out, just to see how mealy mouthed Manchin gets with his own constituents he knowingly mocked and let down.

Tell Susan Collins if she flips to the D’s and supports BBB, they will never speak of Kavanaugh again.

 

[Herdfan]

Schumer plans on going ahead with the vote.

Wonder if Kelly - AZ and Warnock - GA, both in very purple states will vote for it. All we ever hear about is Manchin and to a lesser degree, Sinema, but if Schumer forces a vote, you have to wonder. Both of them are just filling an unexpired term and have to run again in 2022. Rumor has always been than Manchin is just taking the heat for some others. Maybe we will see.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The breakdown.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Schumer plans on going ahead with the vote.

Wonder if Kelly - AZ and Warnock - GA, both in very purple states will vote for it. All we ever hear about is Manchin and to a lesser degree, Sinema, but if Schumer forces a vote, you have to wonder. Both of them are just filling an unexpired term and have to run again in 2022. Rumor has always been than Manchin is just taking the heat for some others. Maybe we will see.

It’s a start but I’d also like them to quit dicking around with general blanket objections. Have everybody vote on key items on the bill to let the public know exactly who is for and against what. This would also give them a clue as to what to negotiate on. Of course this ignores the fact that 80% of Congress acts on bad faith, but at least everybody will be on record. Then you can also create some nice little info graphic with each Congress member’s vote compared to the state polling numbers. I’d predict a lot of no votes beside 65%+ of their constituents who want them to vote yes.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Coal miners want Joe Manchin to reverse opposition to Build Back Better

Senator Joe Manchin is facing calls from a powerful group close to his heart to reconsider his opposition to the Build Back Better Act: Coal miners.

www.cnn.com

 

[JayMysteri0]

Schumer plans on going ahead with the vote.

Wonder if Kelly - AZ and Warnock - GA, both in very purple states will vote for it. All we ever hear about is Manchin and to a lesser degree, Sinema, but if Schumer forces a vote, you have to wonder. Both of them are just filling an unexpired term and have to run again in 2022. Rumor has always been than Manchin is just taking the heat for some others. Maybe we will see.

It doesn't take much research to find the likes of Warnock has been on board with BBB early on, and staked his rep on it's possible passing.

https://www.Twitter or X not allowed/i/web/status/1453832803775356930/

The logic of putting it up for a vote, as Bernie puts it, is make those who don't want to go along explain their decision. The frustrating thing in all of this has been anyone who's opposed not making a clear argument why, and how to fix it. Sinema has been roasted for her avoidance to even try to explain. Manchin kept moving goalposts so much, it was like he reinvented the shellgame with goal posts. Only to find out his so called reasoning was full of shit, and his actual hangup is still clinging to racial tropes about "welfare queens". While others hid like roaches in the dark, while the light shined on Manchin & Sinema.

For those staying quiet, it's time to speak up. You can't fix something to one's liking, if one doesn't tell you what they don't like. The only thing worse is for some asshat to tell you what they don't like, in good faith you try to accommodate, only to find out they never had any intention of really dealing with you.

Sure it may piss off Manchin, but at this point who gives an F? The man literally went on Fox News, to cry about something upset him so much, so he finally discovered the sack to be honest with everyone after a year of bullshitting on FOX NEWS. Let him be mad. Dems also need to figure out how to work without him. Let him deal with his constituents that are starting to realize that they guy they voted for who lives on a yacht & drives a Maserati paid for by lobbying interests isn't really for them. It was clear from the start the majority ( which includes constituents of BOTH parties ) of his state wanted BBB, but I guess who the F are they right?

Seriously, the imagery of constituents pulling up in kayaks to his yacht to plead for BBB, has to be one of the more bizarre political spectacles of the year. Which sums up the man & his real concerns.

Keep in mind. The real issue with Manchin isn't solely his opposition. That is two different issues. With his opposition, it's that ONE man from a state that does relatively poorly in many metrics that could be improved, voted in by a couple of hundred thousand people. Can thwart the will of the President, his party, and the near eighty million who voted for that party & president. That's so astronomically lopsided it's offensive in a supposed democracy. With Manchin, the issue of course is the guy lied for nearly a year, gave others the impression that he negotiated in good faith, all to be the center of attention. If I didn't know any better I'd swear the guy learned politics on PRSI.