With Friends Like These…

[Herdfan]

This thread is supposed to be about Manchin and Sinema. Feel free to start a Schumer thread.

This thread has lots of references to the filibuster, which is why I posted it.

All these politicians clamoring to remove it now, used to support it at some time previous in their careers.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy. I have a Joe Biden one as well. But I will refrain.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Sinema speaks out against filibuster reform after House sends voting rights bill to Senate – as it happened

Biden says ‘I don’t know whether we can get this done’ on voting rights bill – follow all the latest news

www.theguardian.com

Kyrsten Sinema has indicated – or simply confirmed – that Democrats’ push to change Senate rules to allow for the passage of voting rights legislation is indeed doomed.

In a speech on the Senate floor delivered shortly before Joe Biden was scheduled to arrive on Capitol Hill to attempt to force the issue, the Arizona senator said: “While I continue to support these bills, I will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country.”

Those separate actions would involve abolishing or modifying the filibuster, the rule which empowers the minority by setting a 60-vote threshold for most legislation.

The Senate is split 50-50 and controlled by Democrats via the vice-president, Kamala Harris. Democratic senators represent vastly more voters than Republican senators, a point often made by supporters of filibuster reform.

Democrats who favour change also point out that federal legislation is needed to counter Republican attempts to restrict voting among minorities which tend to favour Democrats, by means of restrictive laws at the state level.

Voter suppression laws are also at issue, as Republicans who support Donald Trump’s big lie about electoral fraud seek to instal allies in key posts and to make it easier to overturn election results.

Nonetheless, Sinema and her fellow moderate Joe Manchin, of West Virginia, have remained steadfastly against filibuster reform – even though both support some form of federal voting rights protection.

They fear the ramifications of filibuster reform if and when Republicans take back the chamber, which could well happen later this year. Some observers suggest that is naive, as Republicans under Mitch McConnell, a man who has made constitutional hardball an art form, may well dynamite the filibuster themselves.

Either way, without Sinema and Manchin, all efforts on the issue by Biden and the majority leader, Chuck Schumer of New York, are doomed to fail.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1481677461222043658/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1444890710520446981/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1444890741700907010/

This is NOT someone who represents her constituents, or even seemingly cares to pretend they do.

 

[JayMysteri0]

And now, ... a lively illustration of this "debate"



Let's finally realize that Manchin & Sinema are so removed from being affected by voting rights issues, that give no 'F's about what will affect others. Also remember when it comes to Manchin, the bill that last went up, was MANCHIN's bill that he crafted "believing" 'r's would sign up. The 'r's laughed their asses off at Manchin's whittled down bill. So to try to trot out some mythical belief of crafting ANYTHING that gets 'r's to compromise on lessening their chances of winning it all is some straight up disingenuous dumb shittery. Sinema? Who the F she is now compared to who she was, who the hell knows?

Manchin knows he's keeping his seat until he wants out. Sinema's worked solely on her "golden parachute" the last few years. Sinema has sat down with her constituents once in close to 3 years, but she claims to know what they want. These two don't give a 'F' if the dems lost seats, their lifestyles will stay the same. The people actually affected, are the last people these two have a concern for.

"With friends like these" indeed.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And now, ... a lively illustration of this "debate"



Let's finally realize that Manchin & Sinema are so removed from being affected by voting rights issues, that give no 'F's about what will affect others. Also remember when it comes to Manchin, the bill that last went up, was MANCHIN's bill that he crafted "believing" 'r's would sign up. The 'r's laughed their asses off at Manchin's whittled down bill. So to try to trot out some mythical belief of crafting ANYTHING that gets 'r's to compromise on lessening their chances of winning it all is some straight up disingenuous dumb shittery. Sinema? Who the F she is now compared to who she was, who the hell knows?

Manchin knows he's keeping his seat until he wants out. Sinema's worked solely on her "golden parachute" the last few years. Sinema has sat down with her constituents once in close to 3 years, but she claims to know what they want. These two don't give a 'F' if the dems lost seats, their lifestyles will stay the same. The people actually affected, are the last people these two have a concern for.

"With friends like these" indeed.

These 2 are the current poster children for this, but too many politicians seem to think they can stop listening to their constituents the moment they take office and defer to their own personal opinions which is often swayed by corruption or surrounding themselves with people who agree with their current (corrupt) opinion. I picture a king in court saying “I wish only to hear from people who agree with me.” and these like-minded constituents are probably corralled in by lobbyists. And that’s assuming they actually hear from anybody who isn’t a lobbyist.

In the current climate the entire country often seems to be aware of how regional politicians aren’t supporting popular majority initiatives and yet the politician themselves claims they are completely unaware of this with their rhetoric. In the case of Manchin and Sinema we’re aware nationally of their local groups that are imploring them to change their vote but they can’t even seem to acknowledge that these groups even exist and instead issue some kind of deflection excuse that almost nobody is talking about outside their lobbyist circle.

And good luck finding a citizen who supports their actions who is capable of speaking beyond general terms like “I think they are doing a good job”. And good luck finding a “journalist” with a spine to ask a follow-up question like “So you don’t think we should support our seniors with expanded Medicare?”. AND in that extremely unlikely event, good luck finding a supporter who will agree they shouldn’t be blocking these initiatives and therefore they actually aren’t doing a good job. That’s just asking for too much self-examination when confronted with contradictory evidence. “Now that you’ve shared all that current relevant information, they really do suck. Thanks for opening my mind.” said no one being interviewed ever. At best they’ll deflect with some “Well, they’ve been serving the people of [insert area here] for a long time.” as if that somehow nullifies current realities.

 

[sgtaylor5]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/18/poli...-court-states-congress-white-house/index.html

What we really have had since the election is a 52-48 Republican-held Senate. Ratfucked, indeed.

 

[Herdfan]

These 2 are the current poster children for this, but too many politicians seem to think they can stop listening to their constituents the moment they take office and defer to their own personal opinions which is often swayed by corruption or surrounding themselves with people who agree with their current (corrupt) opinion.

At least one of them is listening to what his constituents want:

Joe Manchin's Approval Nearly Double Biden's In West Virginia

Recent polls show between 57 and 60 percent of West Virginians approve of the moderate Democratic senator, despite Trump winning there by a double-digit margin.

www.newsweek.com

As for Sinema, all the polls I could find are about her sinking approval among Dems, not the state as a whole.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

At least one of them is listening to what his constituents want:

Joe Manchin's Approval Nearly Double Biden's In West Virginia

Recent polls show between 57 and 60 percent of West Virginians approve of the moderate Democratic senator, despite Trump winning there by a double-digit margin.

www.newsweek.com

As for Sinema, all the polls I could find are about her sinking approval among Dems, not the state as a whole.

Further down my post I said I want to see a contrast with specific proposed initiatives he doesn't agree with compared to local polling numbers on those specific initiatives. Take that to the streets "Here's specifically what Joe is against. Do you agree?" If you don't agree with him on most of those initiatives while claiming you think he is doing a good job, then you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. I'd also like to hear SPECIFICALLY what he is doing right and not some lazy "stopping the socialists!" adjacent drivel.

 

[SuperMatt]

Nick Saban is from West Virginia, and is joining other sports star from the state in urging Senator Manchin to support a voting rights bill.

Saban urges W.Va. Sen. to back voting rights bill

Nick Saban as among several sports figures from West Virginia to sign a letter that urged Sen. Joe Manchin to support the passage of the Freedom to Vote Act.

www.espn.com

Alabama football coach Nick Saban was among a handful of sports figures from West Virginia to sign a letter urging Sen. Joe Manchin to support the passage of the Freedom to Vote Act.

The letter, which was made public on Monday, also was signed by NBA Hall of Famer Jerry West, former West Virginia athletic director Oliver Luck, former NFL All-Pro Darryl Talley and former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.

"We come from some of our nation's most popular sports leagues, conferences and teams. Some of us have roots and shaped our lives in West Virginia. Others followed very different paths and some of us have been rivals in sports or business. But we are all certain that democracy is best when voting is open to everyone on a level playing field; the referees are neutral; and at the end of the game the final score is respected and accepted."

Saban, who was born in Fairmont, is a longtime friend and supporter of Manchin.

I don’t think it is the PEOPLE of West Virginia who care about a filibuster one way or another. They just want the right to vote... as do we all. Manchin doesn’t seem to be doing a great job of representing his state.

 

[Renzatic]

At least one of them is listening to what his constituents want...

Which should go to show you how stupid politics are these days. Almost everything in Biden's plan is supported by the majority in West Virginia, yet, hey, Let's Go Brandon, right?

 

[JayMysteri0]

Very quickly, this photo & sign shows you all you EVER need to know about Joe Manchin for now & forever.

That sign is complete & utter bull shit.

It also demonstrates how this man prefers like 'r's a congress / government that can't get shit done efficiently. It has to be a tilted slog that somehow benefits him or his family then everyone else can have something. Or no one can have anything at all.

 

[lizkat]

At least one of them is listening to what his constituents want:

Joe Manchin's Approval Nearly Double Biden's In West Virginia

Recent polls show between 57 and 60 percent of West Virginians approve of the moderate Democratic senator, despite Trump winning there by a double-digit margin.

www.newsweek.com

As for Sinema, all the polls I could find are about her sinking approval among Dems, not the state as a whole.

Well yeah because as it happens they're both DINOS...

 

[Herdfan]

Very quickly, this photo & sign shows you all you EVER need to know about Joe Manchin for now & forever.

View attachment 11177

Like I said, go ahead and do away with it.

But no whining when the R's pass stuff you don't like.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Like I said, go ahead and do away with it.

But no whining when the R's pass stuff you don't like.

Why do away with it, when you can do something called "compromise"?



As it's been stated, carve outs & exceptions have been done more than 100X to balance the budget to other things. Each side can keep the filibuster if it's really that valuable, but for the important things like for many Americans an exception can be made.

It isn't radical, it isn't new, it isn't untenable for either party. It's business as usual.

Except for NOW.

 

[JayMysteri0]

Who knew this was statistically possible for a democrat amongst democratic voters?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1484267291365842950/

Good thing she isn't worried about re election. There's a chance many of her own party would find it difficult to vote for her, and it would have nothing to do with her but for the other party she stood with.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Who knew this was statistically possible for a democrat amongst democratic voters?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1484267291365842950/

Good thing she isn't worried about re election. There's a chance many of her own party would find it difficult to vote for her, and it would have nothing to do with her but for the other party she stood with.

"I'm just going to continue to shit all over what I was put in office to do and then move unto some kush lobbyist and board member job. Sorry, not sorry."

 

[User.45]

Like I said, go ahead and do away with it.

But no whining when the R's pass stuff you don't like.

You mean you are telling us that the plurality of Americans shouldn't be upset when they repeatedly get disproportionately lower representation while a minority gets representation like they were a plurality? I'm curious, what story are you telling yourself to pass this as fair?


Senate is lazy AF and filibuster conservativism is just pure unadulterated bullshit. If they wanted to stay true to the tradition, they should reinstate the standing filibuster. US politics needs younger people who actually have stakes in the future and well, having to bust your ass for a filibuster would be a nice way to get rid of the septuagenarians and octogenarians who can't keep up.

 

[User.45]

Like I said, go ahead and do away with it.

But no whining when the R's pass stuff you don't like.

What you think your comment sounds like: if you bend the game, don't be surprised that my team will bend the game back.
What your comment actually sounds like: if you step up against your being under representated, my guys will make sure we'll use our lower vote count to make sure you are even less represented as your punishment.

 

[SuperMatt]

What you think your comment sounds like: if you bend the game, don't be surprised that my team will bend the game back.
What your comment actually sounds like: if you step up against your being under representated, my guys will make sure we'll use our lower vote count to make sure you are even less represented as your punishment.

Mitch said what the GOP voters are thinking. There are Americans… and there are African Americans. Mitch and his party’s voters don’t want the latter to be equal partners in our democracy. Period. Look at the fact that DC is still not a state, and nothing has even been done to try and get its residents any voting representation in Congress. How can the Republican Party possibly excuse the disenfranchisement of almost a million Americans, living in the Continental United States, a vote in Congress? They cannot. And it has everything to do with the racial makeup of the district’s population.

Whenever it’s brought up that black voters need to wait in long lines to vote, and the closing of precincts in minority neighborhoods by Republicans is mentioned, it is *crickets* from the right. They simply cannot defend it, and don’t even try. But they call the voting rights bill a “federal takeover” of elections.

Yes, it is a federal takeover. Just like federal takeovers of schools in the 1960s and just like the 1965 voting rights bill was a federal takeover. It is necessary to protect the rights of minorities who are being discriminated against by state and local authorities. The fact that Republicans in Congress don’t support the voting rights bills being discussed (or even offer proposed changes), is an indictment of them. Mitch said it out loud, but the actions of GOP Congressmen are the true indication of their depravity.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Mitch said what the GOP voters are thinking. There are Americans… and there are African Americans. Mitch and his party’s voters don’t want the latter to be equal partners in our democracy. Period. Look at the fact that DC is still not a state, and nothing has even been done to try and get its residents any voting representation in Congress. How can the Republican Party possibly excuse the disenfranchisement of almost a million Americans, living in the Continental United States, a vote in Congress? They cannot. And it has everything to do with the racial makeup of the district’s population.

Whenever it’s brought up that black voters need to wait in long lines to vote, and the closing of precincts in minority neighborhoods by Republicans is mentioned, it is *crickets* from the right. They simply cannot defend it, and don’t even try. But they call the voting rights bill a “federal takeover” of elections.

Yes, it is a federal takeover. Just like federal takeovers of schools in the 1960s and just like the 1965 voting rights bill was a federal takeover. It is necessary to protect the rights of minorities who are being discriminated against by state and local authorities. The fact that Republicans in Congress don’t support the voting rights bills being discussed (or even offer proposed changes), is an indictment of them. Mitch said it out loud, but the actions of GOP Congressmen are the true indication of their depravity.

I have yet to have anybody justify why different states should have vastly different voting laws, access, and procedures.

 

[GermanSuplex]

John Ossoff had a great floor speech, using voting records and R's own words against them.

I long for the days of people needing to whip up supporters on the other side to pass legislation. This constant stalemate is painful to everyone.

Unfortunately, Manchin and Sinema are disingenuous in their "concern" about changing the filibuster, because they know damn well the entire Republican agenda is "whatever Trump wants today". And likewise, whatever McConnell wants to do to stay in power. So when they say "here's what we will do if you do this and we regain control", it doesn't matter. They'll do it anyways. If they want voter suppression passed or voter protections repealed, they will vote lock-step with McConnell to overturn the filibuster and pass what they want. They will pass any sort of law needed to prevent Biden from picking judges or seating supreme court justices.

McConnell is especially terrible as of late, noting the high turnout and not fully going along with Trump's big lie, but doing nothing to simply enshrine protections we already have, let alone expanding them. If the last election was fair and turnout was great, then why do we need all these GOP-led voter restrictions in place?

Such a hypocrite, can't wait until he heads into the sunset. It's hard to tell whether he said the quiet part out loud or was intentional and dog-whistling when he said "African Americans vote in the same amounts as "Americans" - the implication that African-Americans aren't Americans, I guess? What a tool.