With Friends Like These…

[Eric]

If your definition of a Republican is someone whose purpose is to support insurrection and all the other nonsense many GOP politicians are promoting, I guess they were RINOs. But I prefer Republicans who care about the rule of law, actually governing to better the lives of Americans, and working with Democrats and Independents.

This nails it, there is simply no place for independent thinkers in the Republican party. They are lockstep all the way or cast out, it serves them well in some ways when it comes to legislation but it also means you cannot have an idea that isn't a part of the hive without being disavowed.

It's okay to be Conservative and admit that Trump lost as well as not supporting the insurrection, it may cost you your seat but at least you'll have your dignity.

 

[Herdfan]

This nails it, there is simply no place for independent thinkers in the Republican party.

So why doesn't the same apply to Manchin and the Democrat party? Why can't he be an independent thinker or even worse, vote for his constituent's best interests?

 

[Herdfan]

If your definition of a Republican is someone whose purpose is to support insurrection

Romney and Cheney were RINO's long before January 6th.

 

[Eric]

So why doesn't the same apply to Manchin and the Democrat party? Why can't he be an independent thinker or even worse, vote for his constituent's best interests?

Hey, if he can run a successful challenge then I say more power to him, it's a wide open field. On a personal note I think you need more personality to win hearts and minds but his positions are far less radical the the current Republican party, I'd have no problem if he were to take the nomination.

 

[Herdfan]

Hey, if he can run a successful challenge then I say more power to him, it's a wide open field. On a personal note I think you need more personality to win hearts and minds but his positions are far less radical the the current Republican party, I'd have no problem if he were to take the nomination.

And far less radical than the current Democrat party.

He probably represents the middle 60% of the country better than either party.

 

[Eric]

And far less radical than the current Democrat party.

He probably represents the middle 60% of the country better than either party.

Radical? As in overturning Roe v Wade, overturning affirmative action, attacking LGBTQ people, defending the very same weapons used to senselessly murder children in schools?

One can only imagine anyone who believes this only watches Fox News pundits while refusing to turn on any and all "actual" reported news in this country. I know several over my Conservative friends refuse to turn it on so they can blissfully live in their bubble of ignorance.

But yeah right, it's "Dems" who are radical.

 

[GermanSuplex]

And far less radical than the current Democrat party.

He probably represents the middle 60% of the country better than either party.

He gets elected to the senate with republican support in WV, and that support from republicans would vanish in any type of national contest where he would have to condemn Trump and his actions, which he most certainly would have to do because he voted to convict Trump in the senate, twice.

Let’s face it, we can talk about which party is more radical or how many Americans Manchin represents, but the Republican Party is now a party of one man, Donald Trump, and even facts don’t fly in the party anymore if those facts run counter to anything Trump says, believes or wants. It’s a party of disinformation and cult-like worship.

How many combined years of jail and prison time are people serving thanks to their worship of Trump, and their belief in his easily disproven lies? Here’s the funny thing - add it all up and then get ready to add more, because we aren’t done yet.

The democrats are an agenda-driven party seeking to help people. We aren’t into taking away long-standing rights or taking us back to the days of Jim Crow and segregation. You don’t have to agree with their ideals or agenda, but at least they’re rooted in facts.

I would imagine a conservative argument to that would be to retort “like men can get pregnant?”, which is evidence of transphobia and not the slight against dems they think it is, because this is a human issue and, because of conservatives, also a legal one. And democrats - being the agenda-driven party who wants to help people - want to make sure those people are seen, heard and treated fairly, not ostracized from society. It’s not a binary debate, it’s a human one.

Republicans may like Manchin as a Biden spoiler, but they won’t vote for him. Manchin can’t pull enough of the Trump republicans away as an independent, and democrats are going to remember him tanking important democrat legislation. Maybe in another time, when politics was more boring, he’d be a successful independent candidate.

Personally, I don’t care what republicans think about Manchin. I get irritated with him, but it is what it is and I’m glad there’s room in the democrat party for people like him. Any differences amongst dems is meager compared those in the GOP, which is about three different tiers of a Trump fan club.

I probably don’t like Manchin any more than republicans like Mitt Romney, but I also don’t hate him as much as republicans hate Mitt Romney. That’s the difference in parties, I think.

 

[Herdfan]

Radical? As in overturning Roe v Wade, overturning affirmative action, attacking LGBTQ people, defending the very same weapons used to senselessly murder children in schools?

One can only imagine anyone who believes this only watches Fox News pundits while refusing to turn on any and all "actual" reported news in this country. I know several over my Conservative friends refuse to turn it on so they can blissfully live in their bubble of ignorance.

But yeah right, it's "Dems" who are radical.

How did you all even vote before 2016?

Hillary & Obama were against gay marriage in 2008. Biden sponsored the Crime Bill that locked millions of Black men up for crack while letting white guys off for cocaine. There isn't enough bandwidth on this site to list all the positions elected Dems held 20-30 years ago that you would consider radical right-wing today. I know many of you think the Republican Party has gone radical, but what positions do they have now that are more "radical" than they were 20 or 30 years ago?

 

[Citysnaps]

I know many of you think the Republican Party has gone radical, but what positions do they have now that are more "radical" than they were 20 or 30 years ago?

How about an insurrection and attempted coup to overturn the will of the people casting votes for President of the United States using "alternate" slates of electors? And that being characterized as "legitimate political discourse."

 

[Eric]

How did you all even vote before 2016?

Hillary & Obama were against gay marriage in 2008. Biden sponsored the Crime Bill that locked millions of Black men up for crack while letting white guys off for cocaine. There isn't enough bandwidth on this site to list all the positions elected Dems held 20-30 years ago that you would consider radical right-wing today. I know many of you think the Republican Party has gone radical, but what positions do they have now that are more "radical" than they were 20 or 30 years ago?

The difference is they have progressed and moved forward, evolved. Republicans have don’t nothing but go backwards.

 

[GermanSuplex]

How did you all even vote before 2016?

Hillary & Obama were against gay marriage in 2008. Biden sponsored the Crime Bill that locked millions of Black men up for crack while letting white guys off for cocaine.

We decided it’s time to move on from those things, and so did Obama and Biden. I’ll take the people who had those views and moved and changed rather than people who’s literal motto is to take us back to those days. (MAGA?)

I was also against gay marriage and abortion rights in my teen years. Someone asked me how someone else being gay or how someone having access to abortion for healthcare reasons or any number of personal reasons affects my day. Don’t like abortions? Don’t get one. Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t do it. Other people having a right doesn’t intrude on my rights. That’s where the progressive movement has headed and it’s fine that people didn’t have those same views ten, twenty or forty years ago. That’s what progressivism is.

Donald Trump was also pro-choice for many years, and then he said women should be punished for having abortions and you all voted for him. To his credit (or discredit depending on how you view it), he was the president who made overturning Roe v. Wade possible. Whether that’s a good or bad thing for republicans remains to be seen.

You can go back twenty years, but I don’t have to go back that far to see republicans who wanted a decade of prison time for spray painting a confederate statue, but want pardons for people who hung gallows and beat police at the Capitol.

Joe Biden was friends with Robert Byrd, a man who denounced his racism; Trump had lunch with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West in the middle of their “we hate Jews” tour.

Republicans only seem to be passionate about these things when drudging up the past. They are quick to remind us that the Klan was a democrat group, but have a real issue condemning them today. They remind us the republicans ended slavery, yet they also ended affirmative action.

 

[Herdfan]

Republicans may like Manchin as a Biden spoiler, but they won’t vote for him. Manchin can’t pull enough of the Trump republicans away as an independent, and democrats are going to remember him tanking important democrat legislation. Maybe in another time, when politics was more boring, he’d be a successful independent candidate.

I think this is where a lot of us get lost. The majority of registered voters are now independent, either by actual registration or in their minds. Trump will not get a majority of these voters, but Manchin could. He will pick up some GOP voters who have a chance to hear him speak and figure out his main goal is compromise. Same with some Dems who have issues with Biden.

I remember back when I think it was the Sago mine cave in when Manchin was Governor. He projected being a leader. In the midst of this tragedy, I was proud he was my Governor. If he can get out there and connect with people, especially those who don't want to see Trump/Biden 2.0, he could have a real chance. I would certainly vote for him.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And far less radical than the current Democrat party.

I’ve always pictured you more as a moderate. On the daily I listen to one of the multiple Bulwark podcasts, considered center right, or Joe Walsh, former tea party congress member and professed libertarian. While they generally don’t agree with Democrats on a lot of issues, there’s no talk of the party being radical, especially compared to the Republicans by their own admittance. They did discuss the Hunter Biden situation and their feelings are the deal was either normal or any special treatment was due to class, not party affiliation.

While I tend to lean progressive, I can’t listen to Jimmy Dore who is militantly progressive. Every little thing is an outrage to be bouncing off the wall over. I don’t envision you bouncing off the wall, but based on some of your posts the news you get seems to fall into this category but coming from the right’s view. But in fairness this type of thing is far more mainstreamed on the right. You really don’t have to seek it out like following Jimmy Dore. When you seek things out that are more right-wing than mainstream right-wing it just goes straight to patriarchal white supremacy admittance instead of just winking at it.

 

[Roller]

Romney and Cheney were RINO's long before January 6th.

Since you're characterizing them as RINOs, I have to wonder what is your definition of a Republican? I used to think they were fiscally and socially conservative, advocating for less governmental involvement in personal affairs, which generally aligns with the stances of both politicians in the pre-Trump era. I don't agree with many of those positions, but I believe having more than one party is required in a democratic society.

Above all, most old-school Republicans seemed genuinely interested in helping their constituents and working with Democrats and Independents. But they wouldn't have gone along with attempts to subvert the will of the American people, whether by subterfuge or force, and they certainly wouldn't have continue to support Trump, as many Republicans have. Anyone who identifies as a Republican must admit that the GOP is owned by Trump and has people like MTG, Boebert, Graham, and, yes, George Santos, as its face. And that some of the policies they support, like banning abortion, are opposed by a sizable majority of the electorate.

 

[Renzatic]

I know many of you think the Republican Party has gone radical, but what positions do they have now that are more "radical" than they were 20 or 30 years ago?

They have done quite a bit to suppress the use of Jewish space lasers and secret Satanic pedo rings in restaurant basements recently.

I can't believe that anyone could look at the party that's propping up Marjorie Taylor Greene, and think "yeah, now there's a bunch of well rounded individuals who have their shit together."

 

[Citysnaps]

I can't believe that anyone could look at the party that's propping up Marjorie Taylor Greene, and think "yeah, now there's a bunch of well rounded individuals who have their shit together."

Long ago I had some respect for Lindsey Graham, though I disagreed with him on most things. Today he's just another trump butt licker. If still around, his buddy John McCain would be so disappointed. I would like to believe McCain would still be principled and not give trump the time of day. But who knows.

 

[Renzatic]

Long ago I had some respect for Lindsey Graham, though I disagreed with him on most things. Today he's just another trump butt licker. If still around, his buddy John McCain would be so disappointed. I would like to believe McCain would still be principled and not give trump the time of day. But who knows.

You could say that the Republican party died with McCain. Trump has, er, trumped classical conservatism, and is puppeting the corpse of what once was.

 

[Huntn]

But how is that different from what RINO's like Cheney and Romney did?

The difference is I view the Democrat initiatives as worthy, ie good for the country, while I view all of the Republican initiatives as benefiting just their base which includes a nice cozy straight jacket for a great many of us.

 

[Herdfan]

The difference is I view the Democrat initiatives as worthy, ie good for the country, while I view all of the Republican initiatives as benefiting just their base which includes a nice cozy straight jacket for a great many of us.

Swap the words Democrat and Republican and that is how many Republicans feel.

 

[Renzatic]

Swap the words Democrat and Republican and that is how many Republicans feel.

I don't even know why you even pretend that things are still the usual political status quo as they were 10-20 years ago, and one of our political parties hasn't fallen off the deep end into crazy nutso territory.