With Friends Like These…

[SuperMatt]

Left a little bit out of this don't you think?

They were negotiating and Manchin had come off his original public position on some issues and they were making progress. But then he found out the WH was going to issue a statement blaming him for the problems and he insisted that some others (Sinema, Kelly and a couple others) be named as well. The WH then still blamed only him in the middle of negotiating. At that point he was done.

My comment could not capture every detail of Manchin’s , which is why posted a link to the entire article… or look at the 17 pages of this thread.

But read what you wrote. Manchin was more worried about his hurt feelings than about getting something done. The truth was, Sinema had agreed to the new smaller plan. Manchin was literally the only Democrat not on board. It was the absolute truth, and everybody in America knew it. Was Biden supposed to lie or omit that in order to make poor little baby Joey happy? He literally acted like a toddler, and his defenders are blaming others for his childish behavior.

All this goes to show he should switch parties to Republican to be with the others who act similarly.

 

[Herdfan]

All this goes to show he should switch parties to Republican to be with the others who act similarly.

If he did, what would you do with all the time you spending slamming him for not being in line with the rest of his party.

 

[SuperMatt]

Joe Manchin, pictured here about to perform an abortion of the Affordable Care Act.

The Democrats want to renew subsidies for premiums in 2023. I bet you can’t guess the only person in the party who wants everybody’s premiums to go through the roof!

Manchin Is Pushing Even More Harmful Means Testing for Health Care

As Manchin blocks Medicare expansion, West Virginians are resorting to desperate measures like pulling their own teeth.

truthout.org

It’s never good news when this guy is involved.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Heard that friend of the forum Kyrsten Sinema wants to keep the filibuster because it protects women’s rights. Due to that statement and the fact that matter can’t be destroyed MTG and Boebert just gained 20 new brain cells each.

 

[SuperMatt]

Heard that friend of the forum Kyrsten Sinema wants to keep the filibuster because it protects women’s rights. Due to that statement and the fact that matter can’t be destroyed MTG and Boebert just gained 20 new brain cells each.

If they kept it for Supreme Court nominees, it might have protected women’s rights. But that was Mitch.

I don’t know what Sinema’s deal is. She was originally seen as quite progressive. That never materialized. Here’s a (fairly long) look at how she changed.

Did Kyrsten Sinema Think We'd All Just Forget How Progressive She Used to Be?

How did Sinema go from a "New Agey" sort of Marianne Williamson-lite with a commitment to progressive policies to the centrist malcontent we see today?

www.themarysue.com

TL;DR - Taking money from PACs and getting cozy with lobbyists is much more “comfortable” than pushing progressive policies.

It’s absolutely brain-dead for any Democrat to protect the filibuster at this point. Mitch erased it for SCOTUS and he will erase it again in a heartbeat if he wants to pass something.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

If they kept it for Supreme Court nominees, it might have protected women’s rights. But that was Mitch.

I don’t know what Sinema’s deal is. She was originally seen as quite progressive. That never materialized. Here’s a (fairly long) look at how she changed.

Did Kyrsten Sinema Think We'd All Just Forget How Progressive She Used to Be?

How did Sinema go from a "New Agey" sort of Marianne Williamson-lite with a commitment to progressive policies to the centrist malcontent we see today?

www.themarysue.com

TL;DR - Taking money from PACs and getting cozy with lobbyists is much more “comfortable” than pushing progressive policies.

It’s absolutely brain-dead for any Democrat to protect the filibuster at this point. Mitch erased it for SCOTUS and he will erase it again in a heartbeat if he wants to pass something.

I expect Mitch to give a lot more concessions and a lot less kickback knowing his supreme court will just overturn anything he doesn't like.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Manchin rejects climate and energy provisions in reconciliation bill

For several weeks, Manchin has been negotiating with Sen. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer on a bill to cut drug prices for Americans and combat climate change.

www.cbsnews.com

From outside the state you‘d think everybody there is employed by the coal industry but that’s nowhere near the truth.

I think most of the country, regardless of party, is tired of Biden being Manchin’s bitch if for no other reason than it shows a complete lack of control and leadership. Biden should have pulled him aside and told him to get onboard and he’ll shower his state with gifts or he’ll make his political life a living hell. Even without the monster control of Trump this kind of repeated slap in the face would never happen in the Republican Party.

 

[SuperMatt]

Joe Manchin is getting ready to yank the football away at the last minute again.

Joe Manchin Blasts Spending As Democrats Try To Pass Build Back Better 2.0

Record inflation is threatening to derail Democratic efforts to pass a domestic spending bill before the November midterm elections.

www.huffpost.com

But he’s not the only one. A group of Democrats have decided that their corporate benefactors are more important than their country…

House centrists could derail Manchin reconciliation deal with demand for no new taxes

Trying to modify the potential deal could scuttle the entire package.

www.axios.com

Conveniently, their opposition to billionaires having to pay any taxes goes against Manchin’s insistence that the bill increase taxes on the billionaires.

UPDATE: I was going to post the above yesterday, but as of this morning, to nobody’s surprise, it turns out Manchin was just joking about supporting taxes on the rich and actions to control climate change.

Manchin Pulls Plug on Climate and Tax Talks, Shrinking Domestic Plan

The West Virginia Democrat’s decision dealt a crushing blow to President Biden’s domestic agenda, effectively ruling out action on anything beyond prescription drug pricing and health care subsidies.

www.nytimes.com

(paywall removed)

A perfect example of this guy’s behavior. He negotiated, the Democrats compromised to meet his requests, then he just walked away. Ironic statement of the day? From Sam Runyon, Manchin’s spokeswoman:

Senator Manchin believes it’s time for leaders to put political agendas aside… Senator Manchin has not walked away from the table,

Uh…. yeah he didn’t walk away from the table, he flipped the entire table over. Addressing climate change is NOT a political agenda. His , on the other hand…

 

[SuperMatt]

Some perspective on why Manchin is so opposed to the future existence of the human race:

Opinion | What Joe Manchin Cost Us

Mr. Manchin’s legacy will be climate destruction.

www.nytimes.com

(paywall removed)

Mr. Manchin’s refusal to agree to climate investments will hurt the economy he claims he wants to protect. The package would have built domestic manufacturing, supporting more than 750,000 climate jobs annually. It would have also fought inflation, helping to make energy bills more affordable for everyday Americans. This is particularly ironic since Mr. Manchin said inflation was the chief reason he was uncomfortable with supporting tax incentives for clean energy right now.

Over the past year, Mr. Manchin has taken more money from the oil and gas industry than any other member of Congress — including every Republican — according to federal filings. A Times investigation found that he also personally profited from coal, making roughly $5 million between 2010 and 2020 — about three times his Senate salary. Coal has made Mr. Manchin a millionaire, even as it has poisoned the air his own constituents in West Virginia breathe.

​

As Upton Sinclair put it: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

But one thing I have never understood about Mr. Manchin is how he looks his grandchildren in the eye. While he may leave his descendants plenty of money, they will also inherit a broken planet. Like other young people, Mr. Manchin’s grandchildren will grow up knowing that his legacy is climate destruction.

 

[fooferdoggie]

he has admitted this at least. but he was right about inflation too.

 

[SuperMatt]

he has admitted this at least. but he was right about inflation too.

Inflation is definitely a problem. Would BBB have made it worse or better? We’ll never know. The Republicans like to say that climate legislation slows down the economy… which is actually what it needs now.

 

[Herdfan]

Just read an article where Robert Reich thinks the Dems should kick Manchin out of the party.

His theory is that the average person knows that the Dems have control, but are mad than nothing is getting done, not fully understanding why. So by publically kicking Manchin out of the party, the Dems can blame him on one hand while championing "real" Dems to be elected so they can get things done.

Seems like a risky move to me.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

New to me term that fits here...Vichy Democrats - nickname for contemporary members of the Democratic Party, who have sold out to the increasingly fascist Republican Party just as the Vichy French collaborated with the Nazis

 

[SuperMatt]

It looks like both Manchin and Sinema will support the climate bill…

Sinema says she will move forward with Senate Democrats' climate, health and tax bill

The Arizona senator said she will move forward with the Inflation Reduction Act after Democrats reached an agreement to remove a carried interest tax provision.

www.npr.org

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

It looks like both Manchin and Sinema will support the climate bill…

Sinema says she will move forward with Senate Democrats' climate, health and tax bill

The Arizona senator said she will move forward with the Inflation Reduction Act after Democrats reached an agreement to remove a carried interest tax provision.

www.npr.org

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, almost as soon as the bill was announced it was being speculated that closing the tax loophole (actually didn't close it, just extended the investment time needed which fell within normal practices anyway) was put in the bill explicitly so Sinema could kill that part. Shocking to no one that's exactly what happened. So now we're supposed to ignore that and let her parade around like a hero?

 

[SuperMatt]

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, almost as soon as the bill was announced it was being speculated that closing the tax loophole (actually didn't close it, just extended the investment time needed which fell within normal practices anyway) was put in the bill explicitly so Sinema could kill that part. Shocking to no one that's exactly what happened. So now we're supposed to ignore that and let her parade around like a hero?

I don’t think anybody considers either of them heroic. Their failure to act sooner helped push Biden’s approval down. This bill is far less effective than it could have been if they fully supported the original Build Back Better, or even the prior compromises they supposedly were going to support.

Biden is a good negotiator, and decided getting something was better than nothing, even if Manchin got to go around bragging that he is single-handedly going to save the universe from inflation. Because nobody buys Manchin’s BS anyway, so let him run his mouth.

 

[Herdfan]

I wouldn't spike the football just yet.

Two vulnerable House Democrats suggest support for Manchin-Schumer bill could be in jeopardy over energy fee

The Manchin-Schumer social spending and taxation bill could face trouble in the House this week as vulnerable House Democrats are suggest they want changes to the bill.

www.foxnews.com

Actually I figured some of the progressives might vote against it because of some of the provisions that were taken out. But maybe some vulnerable Dems could either vote against it or make changes in the House version the Senate may not accept. The House margin is razor thin, in some ways thinner than the Senate, even though the actual numbers belie that notion.

Just a note - I expect some push back against it being a Fox story. And that's fine. But the rest of the media is acting like this is a done deal. And it isn't.

 

[lizkat]

I wouldn't spike the football just yet.

Two vulnerable House Democrats suggest support for Manchin-Schumer bill could be in jeopardy over energy fee

The Manchin-Schumer social spending and taxation bill could face trouble in the House this week as vulnerable House Democrats are suggest they want changes to the bill.

www.foxnews.com

Actually I figured some of the progressives might vote against it because of some of the provisions that were taken out. But maybe some vulnerable Dems could either vote against it or make changes in the House version the Senate may not accept. The House margin is razor thin, in some ways thinner than the Senate, even though the actual numbers belie that notion.

Just a note - I expect some push back against it being a Fox story. And that's fine. But the rest of the media is acting like this is a done deal. And it isn't.

That had crossed my mind too, especially in any purple or "swing" districts where redistricting did not make currently blue seats any "safer" for 2022.

Best time to count chickens is after they're out of the shell and looking for their next meal.

 

[Herdfan]

That had crossed my mind too, especially in any purple or "swing" districts where redistricting did not make currently blue seats any "safer" for 2022.

Best time to count chickens is after they're out of the shell and looking for their next meal.

In some ways, getting things through the Senate is easier. For one it is easier to get 50 Senators vs 217 House members to fall in line. Adding that only 14 D Senators (many in safe Blue seats) have to stand for reelection in 3 months vs 217 Reps who all have to stand for reelection.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

In some ways, getting things through the Senate is easier. For one it is easier to get 50 Senators vs 217 House members to fall in line. Adding that only 14 D Senators (many in safe Blue seats) have to stand for reelection in 3 months vs 217 Reps who all have to stand for reelection.

From the fellow right leaning voters you socialize with do they put more thought into it than their representatives, meaning are they onboard with blanket obstructing everything and manufacturing an excuse after the fact? On the excuse, do they have a threshold on excuses or are they fine with any small or flimsy excuse to tank the entire thing?