The Republican Agenda 2021 and Forward

[Eric]

I can absolutely defend it. Cooperation during the investigative phase doesn’t change the underlying crime.

It may, and has, change the disposition, but it doesn’t change the crime.

I will happily listen if you can explain how the underlying crimes, having classified documents they weren’t supposed to have, are different.

He was deliberately hiding them, no amount of bullshitery or Fox News talking points will change this fact. Had he simply disclosed it we would never be having this conversation.

 

[Herdfan]

So did that jury but you all are so quick to dismiss them, did they matter?

No, the jury followed the Judge’s instructions. So they can’t be blamed.

We will see via the appeals process if those instructions were appropriate.

He was deliberately hiding them, no amount of bullshitery or Fox News talking points will change this fact. Had he simply disclosed it we would never be having this conversation.

Did Biden commit a crime by possessing them?

Yes or No question.

 

[Eric]

No, the jury followed the Judges instructions. So they can’t be blamed.

We will see via the appeals process if those instructions were appropriate.

So it's the judges fault? Help me out here, I'm confused on anyone I should be blaming except for Trump.

Did Biden commit a crime by possessing them?

Yes or No question.

LOL you keep trying to make this point but the DOJ was clear that the only crime were looking at was "not turning them in". Biden did, Trump did not. But you know, as some MAGA guy on the internet you should really be given as much weight as the attorneys at the DOJ, my apologies.

 

[Herdfan]

So it's the judges fault? Help me out here, I'm confused on anyone I should be blaming except for Trump.

Yes. The Judge’s instructions were horrible.

The appeals process will determine which one of us is correct. So no need to worry about that now.

LOL you keep trying to make this point but the DOJ was clear that the only crime were looking at was "not turning them in". Biden did, Trump did not. But you know, as some MAGA guy on the internet you should really be given as much weight as the attorneys at the DOJ, my apologies.

Reuters says different:

WHAT CHARGES DOES TRUMP FACE?​

The most serious charges are 31 counts brought under the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the unauthorized possession of national defense information.

Unauthorized Possession.

Right there in black and white.

Should he have turned them over, yes. Don’t understand why he didn’t. And him doing that hurt his chances of claiming selective prosecution. Which we see in the disposition of the Biden and Pence cases. But it is where we are.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I can try to answer that for you.

Maybe no one on the right believes the cases to be legit. I mean, how many people have 2 Misdemeanors that were out of the Statute of Limitations elevated to 34 Felonies? Really? No citizen not named Trump would have ever had that happen to them. If someone can provide a cite, I will stand corrected.

And let's look at the classified documents case. Trump had them and Biden had them. Regardless of how each handled the case with authorities, the actual crime is the same.

Did they have documents they were not supposed to have? Yes.

Is it a crime? Yes!

Were they treated in a similar fashion? No!

And the public sees that. And in some ways Biden having them is worse since he was NEVER authorized to have them from when he was a Senator. Possibly not as VP, but certainly not as a Senator. So either he skated because 1) he was the President or 2) as Hur noted, he wasn't fit to stand trial. Neither is a good look.

On the documents case, out of all the politicians that had documents they shouldn’t have when the government asked for them back they all complied except Trump. What does the right say about that?

I’ll reply to more of your response later…I try to stay away from these conversations in the evenings.

 

[Eric]

WHAT CHARGES DOES TRUMP FACE?​

[font size and caps locked retained] Show me you're MAGA without telling me you're MAGA.

 

[Roller]

Yes, punishments are different. But that is just how our society works for better or worse. Some people get punished for things other walk away from.

Do you think OJ was innocent? Or will he always be a killer in your mind? Even though he walked?

The underlying crime remains the same. So in my mind Biden is just as much a criminal as Trump.

Poor people get mad when a rich person skates on a similar crime. Black people get mad when a white guy gets off while a Black man goes to jail. It doesn’t mean the person who got off didn’t do the same crime.

WTF does OJ have to do with this? You know (or should know) that I wasn't referring to disparities in punishment related to a defendant's means or status, as egregious as those are. People often are sentenced differently because of the circumstances of their crime, how remorseful they are, and other variables.

 

[Renzatic]

It 100% matters what they think. They vote and if they believe their guy is getting hosed while the other guy skates, it is going to be reflected in their vote and support.

It would be exactly the same if the tables were turned.

The majority of voters outside of the Republican Party believe Trump is guilty of something.

Anyone who thinks otherwise by this point won’t have their mind changed. There’s nothing anyone can do about that.

 

[Herdfan]

On the documents case, out of all the politicians that had documents they shouldn’t have when the government asked for them back they all complied except Trump. What does the right say about that?

I’ll reply to more of your response later…I try to stay away from these conversations in the evenings.

I say he should have given them back.

[font size and caps locked retained] Show me you're MAGA without telling me you're MAGA.

That was a copy/paste from my phone.

 

[Citysnaps]

On the documents case, out of all the politicians that had documents they shouldn’t have when the government asked for them back they all complied except Trump. What does the right say about that?

I don't know about the right, but maybe...
Vlad was still waiting for an opportunity to take a look at them?

 

[Yoused]

The majority of voters outside of the Republican Party believe Trump is guilty of something.

Anyone who thinks otherwise by this point won’t have their mind changed.

Well, I am not convinced that most Republicans do not think he is guilty of stuff – they just could not careless. He broke the law for them, and if he suffers for it, that makes him a martyr.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I can try to answer that for you.

Maybe no one on the right believes the cases to be legit. I mean, how many people have 2 Misdemeanors that were out of the Statute of Limitations elevated to 34 Felonies? Really? No citizen not named Trump would have ever had that happen to them. If someone can provide a cite, I will stand corrected.

And let's look at the classified documents case. Trump had them and Biden had them. Regardless of how each handled the case with authorities, the actual crime is the same.

Did they have documents they were not supposed to have? Yes.

Is it a crime? Yes!

Were they treated in a similar fashion? No!

And the public sees that. And in some ways Biden having them is worse since he was NEVER authorized to have them from when he was a Senator. Possibly not as VP, but certainly not as a Senator. So either he skated because 1) he was the President or 2) as Hur noted, he wasn't fit to stand trial. Neither is a good look.

I’ll keep it somewhat short. Do I believe he wouldn’t be facing most of any of these charges if he accepted the results of the election, peacefully handed over power, and stayed out of politics? Yes. But he didn’t. So play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Probably 80% of “successful businessmen” could be thrown in prison for something but they are smart enough to stay out of elected office. The only reason he is the nominee is because the majority of our elected officials are cowards both during and after his presidency paralyzed by the threats from his domestic terrorist followers.

The irony is that while the Democrats struggle to accept somebody else other than Biden could possibly beat Trump, literally anybody other than Trump on the Republican side could probably beat Biden right now.

 

[rdrr]

I say he should have given them back.

For the millionth time, he didn't. Not only that he willfully and purposely hid them from legal orders to return them. That is what he should be slam dunk found guilty of. Biden and gang turned them over upon discovery.

I would say it was political hit job if Trump turned them over on the second request, or on subpoena to turn them over, and then they charged him. Instead he legally responded with a response that equated to the shrug emoji and then was found to have possession of them after all. Not only that, there is clear video that shows his aids hastily whisking away boxes that are similar to what he had the documents stored in, and many are still "unaccounted" for.

Funny how now it's a political hit job, when in 2016 they Trump and company hammered Clint for less. Remember when he stood up there at the podium in 2016 and talked about Hilary's missing emails and said, "On political corruption, we are going to restore honor to our government. In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. No one will be above the law." Trump 8/18/2016

Stop trying to sell it it as a political hit job, when if the name of the one being charged in the same scenario as Trump, had a last name of Biden, Obama, Clinton every one of you MAGAs would be in line to hang them without trial.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

TL;DW. There are all kinds of things from the Bible that the authoritarian Republican agenda wouldn't be happy about. He mentions the jubilee where all debt is to be forgiven and land given back every 50 years. How about we teach kids that. Also evangelicals have clearly never heard of Jesus and the commie shit he believed in. I hope there are teachers smart and brave enough in the state to prove his points.

 

[Citysnaps]

Yes. The Judge’s instructions were horrible.

The appeals process will determine which one of us is correct. So no need to worry about that now.




Reuters says different:

WHAT CHARGES DOES TRUMP FACE?​

The most serious charges are 31 counts brought under the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the unauthorized possession of national defense information.

Unauthorized Possession.

Right there in black and white.

Should he have turned them over, yes. Don’t understand why he didn’t. And him doing that hurt his chances of claiming selective prosecution. Which we see in the disposition of the Biden and Pence cases. But it is where we are.

I suspect *intent* plays into whether charges would be filed.

trumps's deliberate actions... refusing to hand classified documents over when demanded, hiding classified documents so they wouldn't be discovered during FBI searches, etc. I suspect will speak to *intent*.

 

[MEJHarrison]

I suspect *intent* plays into whether charges would be filed.

That Legal Eagle guy on YouTube did a video on the topic and that was exactly it. People having classified documents they shouldn't isn't just a White House thing. There have been cases involving military people going way back. In every case it comes down to intent. Those who immediately contacted the proper authorities when the breach was discovered never faced charges. The people who didn't do the right thing were charged. It doesn't matter if you stole them for another government or decided you'll deal with it next week so you can go out partying tonight.

Now I can't just throw that out there and leave it. Give me a minute... Here it is. You can skip ahead to 14:30 for the best part.