Gurman's WWDC announcement predictions.

[Colstan]

So much has happened in the last three years - including the pandemic. Apple has done (and been managed) well by not having massive layoffs like so many other large tech companies.

There are a lot of potential excuses for the delay of the Mac Pro and high-end Apple Silicon. Some of those reasons are perfectly valid, some not so much. The problem is that I can't purchase excuses, only products, hence my frustration.

I'm not the only one stressing about this. John Siracusa from the ATP podcast has released a shirt based upon his own concerns regarding this.

Perhaps we should open an X-File on the Mac Pro.

Since Apple won't comment to the press, I suppose this was the best way for him to get his message across, since a lot of Apple employees listen to ATP.

 

[Citysnaps]

There are a lot of potential excuses for the delay of the Mac Pro and high-end Apple Silicon. Some of those reasons are perfectly valid, some not so much. The problem is that I can't purchase excuses, only products, hence my frustration.

I'm not the only one stressing about this. John Siracusa from the ATP podcast has released a shirt based upon his own concerns regarding this.

View attachment 23120

Perhaps we should open an X-File on the Mac Pro.

Since Apple won't comment to the press, I suppose this was the best way for him to get his message across, since a lot of Apple employees listen to ATP.

I'm optimistic, though without any information to support that. Might not be June. But perhaps sometime during last half of 2023.

 

[Yoused]

Perhaps we should open an X-File on the Mac Pro.

Or an, uh, OS-X-File?

 

[Colstan]

I'm optimistic, though without any information to support that. Might not be June. But perhaps sometime during last half of 2023.

Gurman says later this year, but that could be anytime between now and December 31st, assuming it doesn't get delayed again. Even then it doesn't mean that the Mac Pro, or more importantly, the high-end Apple Silicon that it contains, will be competitive with what the PC companies will have available. Keep in mind that Intel's Raptor Lake refresh and AMD's Zen 5 are expected in that time frame. Not to mention desktop GPU refreshes, an area which Apple hasn't been competitive in, thus far. The PC companies aren't sitting still while Apple's elves toil on the next Mac Pro.

Or an, uh, OS-X-File?

Works for me. As someone who has exclusively used Macs for 18 years, even the slightest consideration of switching to a Windows PC is like being in the Twilight Zone.

 

[dada_dave]

That's certainly possible, but there does seem to be something uniquely weird going on with the Mac Pro, and high-end Apple Silicon in general. Apple's presentation graph showing the M1 Ultra on the same footing as an RTX 3090 is the bugbear that continues to vex me, considering that in reality the Ultra barely competes with an entry level 3060. I'm not asking for Apple to do a moon shot and catch the 4090, just something around the 4070 Ti. Apple has done amazing work with mobile, laptops, and compact desktops, but they've come up short in reaching the high-end.

I realize that grousing about it won't get me anywhere, I appreciate you nice folks listening to my bitching, my intention isn't to clog my favorite forum with negativity. It simply means that I may have some uncomfortable choices to make in the coming months, and will have to plan accordingly.

That graph was odd for two reasons:

1) it wasn’t necessarily inaccurate
2) it very obviously didn’t match reality

Basically it showed a 3090 way down clocked with consequentially lower performance but higher efficiency and an Ultra GPU with slightly higher performance and slightly more power than the real one seems to get in most circumstances. This test Ultra GPU matched (actually beat) the test 3090 on performance but still beat it in efficiency, which one could argue is a great thing since it’s beating it in efficiency with the tested 3090 already being more efficient than its wild counterparts. One could argue that, but even I who argues that efficiency still matters even in desktop parts would roll my eyes at that one. The 3090 fully powered beats the ever living daylights out of the actual performance of the Ultra GPU at its actual power which is the primary point of the 3090 GPU class. This definitely isn’t the CPU space where Apple can match or beat some of the best Intel/AMD consumer processors and sip power while doing it. The GPU is still good, but yeah …

As for Gurman wasn’t it him who had a real high-level source that Apple fired and sued? I think that was him. But I’m not sure that he’s had any kind of source since as his predictions have gone steeply downhill over time as far as I can tell.

 

[Colstan]

That graph was odd for two reasons:

1) it wasn’t necessarily inaccurate
2) it very obviously didn’t match reality

Most agreeable. That M1 Ultra vs. 3090 comparison was one of the most egregious examples of marketing run amok. All companies stretch numbers in their favor, but this was way outside the norm of what Apple usually provides. That's why we're still discussing it today.

Basically it showed a 3090 way down clocked with consequentially lower performance but higher efficiency and an Ultra GPU with slightly higher performance and slightly more power than the real one seems to get in most circumstances.

Thanks for the explainer. Most people just assumed that Apple was claiming that the M1 Ultra was on the same level as a stock RTX 3090.

even I who argues that efficiency still matters even in desktop parts would roll my eyes at that one.

Efficiency does matter in desktop parts, particularly if you're trying to keep heat and noise down. If (and this is a huge if) I were to build a custom PC, then I'd be optimizing for for those factors. I'd be looking at something like an AMD Ryzen 7600 non-X CPU paired with a hypothetical RX 7800 XT, housed inside of a "be quiet!" brand case. I don't think Apple needs to target the insane edge with a 13900KS/4090 competitor, but be competitive near the upper range with desktop PCs. It's still an open question whether they are capable of that.

 

[dada_dave]

Fairly sure at least @Colstan already saw this as it was reported on macrumors and I saw he commented but apparently three Mac identifiers have been discovered on plists and look to be desktops - unclear on that or when they’ll show up, but if they are desktops and they are being prepared for WWDC, then Gurman would almost certainly be wrong in at least some if not all of his most recent prophecies.

https://twitter.com/nicolas09F9/status/1649586243699654657

 

[dada_dave]

Here are my own desktop predictions based on what little we’ve seen:

There will be M2 refreshes of Mac Studio with maybe an M3 Pro teased at WWDC for release at the end of the year.

I recognize that in some ways I’m being optimistic about the timing of an M3 Pro so I won’t be overly disappointed if I’m wrong but I don’t think Gurman’s predictions in totality make any sense. Many of them appear to be self-contradictory and (like his M1 predictions) contradict known facts about the lineup or the philosophy Apple has taken about is products so far. His predictions also don’t appear to be based on any specific inside information but merely based on his own initial impressions then taken to what he thinks are the logical conclusions (which as I’ve indicated aren’t that logical to me). But we’ll see! Maybe he’ll be proven correct since we have so little information maybe he’ll be right … I clearly have my doubts and frankly don’t see any reason that we should be taking his word for things over reading the entrails of some poor mammal.

 

[dada_dave]

Rather than just be caustic I decided I should spell out why I think Gurman is dead wrong in detail. Let’s start from the beginning: Where do I think Gurman first went wrong? Easy! It begins (but doesn’t end) with his assertion that the M1 Jade4C existed and that the Mac Pro would be based on it. Everything else flows from that.

1. Obviously such a chip never showed up so Gurman declared it “canceled”. Now he contends that the M2 extreme has likewise been canceled. Let’s be clear: There’s never been any evidence that either existed or were ever planned - at least not as he conceived them as 4 Max chips and not clear in any capacity. Neither the M1 Max nor the M2 Max were built to go past two dies. We know this from Hector’s analysis and therefore no M1/2 Extreme could’ve been planned based on them. Further we likewise know from Hector that Apple has device code strings for a different chip that is built for multiple dies and for general purpose PCIe which again the current M2 Max, and therefore the upcoming M2 Ultra, are not. Whatever CPU cores this upcoming chip is using, these device strings indicate a chip design exists that is much more suited to be the basis for a Mac Pro than a standard Ultra.

2. He’s stated that the Studio won’t be upgraded until the M3 because Apple doesn’t want it to cannibalize sales of the Pro. This isn’t how Apple operates. Famously they have said they want the lower tier products to cannibalize the next rung up to force that higher tier to justify its existence and force that product to innovate or die out. Further this seems to be based on no supply chain rumor or inside information and is just his own deduction starting from what appears to be a very flawed precept (ie that the Extreme has been cancelled and therefore Apple can only use the Ultra). He gives justifications for this assertion, not evidence.

2A. Lastly his justification for the M2 Extreme being cancelled are costs and the nicheness of the product in question. Those concerns don’t go away with the M3 and only push the problems down the road. Expense and nicheness are arguments for just nixing the Pro altogether which Apple has made clear it isn’t going to do. The only justification along these lines that would be improved by the switch to TSMC N3 would be the packaging of multiple die becoming easier, but this a better justification for the M2 Extreme never existing rather than being cancelled.

3. Here’s a quotes from @Colstan summarizing Gurman’s thoughts on the Mac Pro/Studio:

Regarding the Apple Silicon Mac Pro, the M2 Extreme was canceled "because of cost and production". Gurman thinks that the M2 Ultra is already a niche product, and it didn't make sense to dump resources into such a low volume chip that few people would be willing to pay for. Gurman says that he "still believes it's coming this year". He thinks that part of the reason for the 15-inch MacBook Air using an M2, and the M3 coming later, is because "you don't want to launch the M3 before the M2 Ultra chip coming in the Mac Pro".

And this last part is a self contradiction. Gurman’s first statement is alluding to the Pro not launching at it near WWDC (this delay is for reasons unknown if the Pro is only using an Ultra) and his second is that Apple doesn’t want the M3 to launch before the Ultra. But if the Ultra doesn’t launch at WWDC or soon thereafter, Apple would basically have to launch them coincidently or close enough given Apple’s release schedule for Macs. Apple would have to do what he said they wouldn’t, announce the Pro and launch it then or not that long afterwards, to avoid the M3 coming in at latest November. So one of his statements here has to be wrong. I submit both are wrong or rather I agree that the Pro won’t come until later but the reason is because it’s hosting a new chip, M3 or otherwise. Again, Gurman notably doesn’t give a reason why the Pro can’t launch at WWDC given that he contends that it’s using an Ultra.

4. We’ve seen seemingly multiple desktop models appearing in strings. Now we don’t know when all of these will come, but Gurman’s predictions are for (M3) iMacs and a (M2 Ultra) Mac Pro with neither launching soon. Now even if the iMac launches earlier with say an M2 instead, that’s still just one and frankly it doesn’t matter if it’s M2 or M3. There are two more models to account for and Gurman can’t. Max/Ultra Studios make the most sense here given what we know about what’s available now and then the Mac Pro’s strings simply aren’t showing up yet as it is not launching for quite some time (basically pre Dec 31st).

5. We know Apple has been preparing ray tracing for awhile. As @leman has pointed out we’ve seen them develop a mature ray tracing API and even adding the code to Blender in preparation. We also strongly suspect that they licensed IMGTech’s ray tracing a couple of years ago - in short, this tech is coming. Given what the Mac Pro target user is likely to be, Apple is going to want to launch their top of the line product with that feature. Even if the CPU cores are M2-based, they’d still have to have a different GPU and thus different chips than the Max. As aforementioned we already know chips more suitable in some respects for a Mac Pro are planned (ie the die/PCIe driver strings). Given that the Pro has the slowest release cadence of all models it makes no sense to release it without ray tracing and then wait potentially a long time before adding such a flagship, marquee feature to the machine where such a feature would be the most useful. Even better would also be massively increasing the machine learning blocks, but we’ll see. We have more evidence for the ray tracing additions coming soon.

5A. Finally, as I’ve argued before an M2 Ultra Mac Pro with no other killer features is going to struggle with its target audience. It won’t be DOA, but without that extra something it’ll be hard to justify. It might make sense as an entry level Pro-device but not on its own if there is no level beyond that. Of course that’s why Gurman is predicting no Studio but we’ve already said that doesn’t fit with Apple’s ethos nor does shipping hardware just because they have to release “something”. Apple doesn’t always get the product and the market right but they rarely ship unless they think something is ready and will wait until it is (they’ve been burned badly in the few cases, mostly software, when they haven’t). Gurman is basically arguing Apple will violate two of the core principles in one product launch (don’t cannibalize yourself AND release a product even you know isn’t ready because the higher end chip failed to materialize).

6. TSMC’s 3nm was badly delayed as was Apple’s entire lineup so far for a variety of reasons. Given that, it is more than conceivable that Apple always intended on an N3-based Mac Pro for a first release and its release date was intended to be much earlier.

In summary: we have very little hard information here, but what we do have directly contradicts Gurman’s assertions that the M1/M2 Extreme based on 4 Max dies were cancelled. All evidence points to these chips never having been planned at least once Apple got to the chip design phase which had to have been years ago. Many of his later predictions are then based on this fallacy and contain further fallacies some of which violate Apple’s stated core principles and also contain self-contradictions where rationales and predictions conflict. Finally we have evidence for a separate line of chips explicitly mentioning multiple dies and general purpose PCIe much more suited to a Pro machine, multiple upcoming hardware release strings which are difficult to square with his predictions, Apple’s own efforts wrt ray tracing and the audience for the Mac Pro’s needs for that, and the original TSMC N3 timeline which might have allowed Apple to keep to its original schedule (truthfully though even that would’ve been tight).

Now could I be wrong and Gurman right? Of course. But I hope given the above you’ll excuse me if I’m extremely skeptical of his claims here regardless of his past performance on some aspects of Apple’s products (again which recently, especially on hardware and even more especially on high end chips, have not been as accurate).

 

[Colstan]

Fairly sure at least @Colstan already saw this as it was reported on macrumors and I saw he commented

I went dumpster diving at MacRumors and posted similar thoughts to what I said here, except I added an edge to what I said, because the audience would be significantly more critical over there. I got the responses that I expected. Half the posters were among the "Apple is doomed" crowd and the other half were the "Apple can do no wrong" cadre. I'm in the "I just want fast desktops and need to buy a new computer soon" cohort, of which I think I am a audience of one over there. MacRumors, 'tis a silly place.

I also intentionally dropped a grenade in the Mac Pro subforum, just because those are the worst of the lot. I got tired of listening to them, and they completely ignore me whenever I try to use logic and reason in what is supposedly a discussion thread. That area sounds not like a tech forum, but a support group.

There will be M2 refreshes of Mac Studio with maybe an M3 Pro teased at WWDC for release at the end of the year.

I was confused, at first, because the M3 Pro would be a mid-range SoC, but then I realized that you meant the Mac Pro.

Obviously such a chip never showed up so Gurman declared it “canceled”.

I can't believe I'm about to defend Uncle Gurman, but everyone gets hung up on the "Extreme" chip, while ignoring that he was 100% correct about all of the other chips in the M1 and M2 families, thus far. I'll just leave it at that, because I don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

Rather than just be caustic I decided I should spell out why I think Gurman is dead wrong in detail.

I agree with you from a technical standpoint, and appreciate the length and vigor of your post, @dada_dave. There are breadcrumbs, but I think Hansel and Gretel are too far into the woods to be found.

But I hope given the above you’ll excuse me if I’m extremely skeptical of his claims here regardless of his past performance on some aspects of Apple’s products (again which recently, especially on hardware and even more especially on high end chips, have not been as accurate).

I'm not as skeptical of Gurman as many people seem to be. I give him shit because I think he mixes opinion with information, but mainly just because I enjoy it.

I was actually at the point where I was going to shut up about all of this and drop the subject. Me being negative doesn't help anyone here or the fine folks at MacRumors, but I'll simply be blunt, because I figure I should be honest with my friends here.

It's not just a Gurman thing, but I've become rather disenchanted with Apple itself. There was an initial burst of enthusiasm with the announcement of Apple Silicon, then delays and stagnation. Some of that may be have been because of global events, but I don't care. I can't purchase excuses, only products. Yet again I saw Apple with a burst of enthusiasm when approaching the gaming market, something very important to me, and thus far we've had Resident Evil Village for Apple Silicon, and then whole a lot of nothing. Finally, Apple has done great with the CPU side of the equation, but their GPU ambitions have fallen flat. None of that has anything to do with Mark Gurman being right or wrong.

For me, my Mac is both a tool and a hobby. Unfortunately, the tool part of the equation is becoming less useful, which means I may have to switch to another tool, thus losing the hobby aspect.

This is the first WWDC since I switched to the Mac in 2005 that I won't be watching. I think the event will focus on the goggles, and any Mac announcements will be lackluster, so I'll just catch the recap after it is over and save myself a few hours. I truly hope everyone here enjoys it in my stead.

Here are my own desktop predictions based on what little we’ve seen:

My predictions:

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes. The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria!

 

[leman]

I went dumpster diving at MacRumors and posted similar thoughts to what I said here, except I added an edge to what I said, because the audience would be significantly more critical over there. I got the responses that I expected. Half the posters were among the "Apple is doomed" crowd and the other half were the "Apple can do no wrong" cadre. I'm in the "I just want fast desktops and need to buy a new computer soon" cohort, of which I think I am a audience of one over there. MacRumors, 'tis a silly place.

Ahaha, so true

I also intentionally dropped a grenade in the Mac Pro subforum, just because those are the worst of the lot. I got tired of listening to them, and they completely ignore me whenever I try to use logic and reason in what is supposedly a discussion thread. That area sounds not like a tech forum, but a support group.

I too was wondering what’s up with that… MR is just depressing these days.

 

[dada_dave]

I can't believe I'm about to defend Uncle Gurman, but everyone gets hung up on the "Extreme" chip, while ignoring that he was 100% correct about all of the other chips in the M1 and M2 families, thus far.

Aye but in this particular instance it makes sense as that chip directly concerns the Mac Pro and everything in his predictions about the Mac Pro and now even Studio flows from his wrong predictions about that chip and its successors.

Further despite being told that he was wrong and given a detailed explanation as to why what he said wasn’t possible, Uncle Gurman has doubled down and is now constructing additional epicycles to explain why his predictions don’t match observed reality instead of abandoning the wrong assumption that is at the core of the discrepancies. It’s ultimately easier to move to the simpler model that the Earth rotates around the Sun and that the M1/2 Maxes were never designed to make a 4-die extreme.

Everything else I either agree with or would never try to convince you that you should feel otherwise.

 

[Nycturne]

So, I'm in a twitchy phase right now. I don't particularly want to switch to PC, absolutely hate Windows, but want access to PC games. I'd rather stick with Mac, but I need to see how far Apple is willing to push their silicon products and whether the Asahi team will be able to get their distro performant enough to play intensive Proton games.

I don't expect anyone here to have answers, but I'm approaching an inflection point in my computing decision making process, hence I'm rather anxious about the whole affair, which I hope is understandable.

Oh, I get this. For me the end result was that my desktop machine did switch to Windows. No more iMac.

But thanks to Apple Silicon, the MBP is good enough that I don’t mind having a KVM setup for a Mac Laptop and SFF gaming PC at my desk.

 

[Joelist]

Do we know how many Mac Pros (most recent iteration) Apple has sold? That would be useful in seeing how large a fab run any custom chips would need to be at minimum and thus how likely a new Pro actually is.

 

[dada_dave]

Do we know how many Mac Pros (most recent iteration) Apple has sold? That would be useful in seeing how large a fab run any custom chips would need to be at minimum and thus how likely a new Pro actually is.

While I get where you’re coming from and that would be an interesting data point*, regardless of how many Pros have been sold, the likelihood of some sort of Pro is nearly 100% as Apple has said point blank that it’s coming.

Edit: *though I doubt that’s available outside of Apple - Apple doesn’t break out even aggregate sales data never mind just for the Pro and unsure if anyone else tracks it though even if someone like IDC does @Cmaier has, shall we say euphemistically, cast doubt on their methodology

 

[Colstan]

Further despite being told that he was wrong and given a detailed explanation as to why what he said wasn’t possible, Uncle Gurman has doubled down and is now constructing additional epicycles to explain why his predictions don’t match observed reality instead of abandoning the wrong assumption that is at the core of the discrepancies.

I'm not saying that Gurman is a paragon of virtue, just that there's a reason that we talk about his articles, because he's honestly the best we've got. I wish Tom at Moore's Law is Dead would cover Apple. One of his subscribers keeps paying him money to ask his sources about Apple, Tom responds "I can do that", and then never does, because his gamer audience doesn't care about the Mac.

(As an aside, I'll criticize Gurman all day long, but I refuse to criticize Tom, no matter how much he likes to blow his own trombone. It's purely for selfish reasons, because I look like him.)

Everything else I either agree with or would never try to convince you that you should feel otherwise.

I appreciate it. When I voiced these same concerns over at MacRumors, one of the responses was "then why are you here at MacRumors?". That poster was very helpful. I'm trying to make a decision that's going to impact my technology purchases for years to come, but I'm being told that I should leave because I was critical of Apple.

Oh, I get this. For me the end result was that my desktop machine did switch to Windows. No more iMac.

But thanks to Apple Silicon, the MBP is good enough that I don’t mind having a KVM setup for a Mac Laptop and SFF gaming PC at my desk.

I hear ya, I just can't justify having multiple computers for various reasons, including cost, duplication of functionality, time management, and simply not having enough physical space. Computers are like children, they get cranky if they don't get enough attention, which is another reason I don't want to dual-wield a Mac and PC.

The difficulty for me is that I've been a Mac user for 18 years, which is nearly twice as long as the time I spent on Windows. I've toyed around with each successive version of Microsoft's flagship whenever a new version drops, but usually tap out after a few hours. I mainly just played with it out of curiosity, until I started catching up with PC games using Boot Camp. When my eGPU ceased functioning inside Windows with my Mac mini, presumably because of an Apple firmware update, I was suddenly without that functionality. Hence my quandary, which would have become an issue eventually, anyway.

Having solely used a Mac for nearly two decades, it's not easy to give up all of that muscle memory and knowledge to switch to something else. As I said, my Mac is both a tool and a hobby. If I switch to PC, then I will just be using a tool. That means giving up on my favorite hobby. I have a non-tech friend who thinks I'm crazy, but he's been a Windows user all his life, so he doesn't "get it".

My stressing over the Mac Pro is symptomatic of my woes, not the device itself. When I say "performance desktops", that could be any model in the Mac desktop line. I need GPU grunt, in case Asahi Linux does manage to get Proton up and working in a performant manner.

That being said, I think I've finally got a timeline worked out. I need a new computer, not just because of games, but because may Mac mini is aging out in general. I got the 2018 base model as a two-year "stopgap" until Apple Silicon was released, and now it's on year five. I can hang on until probably the end of the year. That should allow Apple enough time to finish the transition, unless they've botched it beyond repair.

Also, I know this factor is going to sound nuts to y'all, but Alan Wake is my favorite game of all time, released by my favorite developer, Remedy studios. Alan Wake came out in 2010 and I had given up on there ever being a sequel. Well, Alan Wake 2 is coming out later this year, according to Remedy. Their latest update from a few days ago affirms this. It's probably not coming this Summer, because publishers like to promote games a few months before release, and most of the big Summer titles have already been announced. That means it's probably going to be released for the holiday season. During its 27 years of existence, Remedy has never released a Mac title, so that's out of the equation, as well.

I know it sounds odd to be concerned over a single game, but everyone has a thing that they would crawl over broken glass for, and for me that's playing Alan Wake 2.

So, I'm going to wait on reviews before I make any decisions, then see where things are, both with the Mac and PC. I've waited three years on this decision, I can manage another six months. However, Remedy has a superb track record with quality games, plus Control 2 is coming in a few years. Hence, I'm thinking around October or November, when both the Mac Pro and Alan Wake 2 are out, as incongruent as that statement sounds.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for listening! I'm not saying all of this just because I like to hear myself complain, but because talking it out with you folks helps me work out a solution in my head. This discussion is valuable to me, so I appreciate the feedback, very much so.

 

[dada_dave]

I appreciate it. When I voiced these same concerns over at MacRumors, one of the responses was "then why are you here at MacRumors?". That poster was very helpful. I'm trying to make a decision that's going to impact my technology purchases for years to come, but I'm being told that I should leave because I was critical of Apple.

I think some of that sort of problem at macrumors is how bifurcated the audience is - the general mood is so oppressive and demoralizing that those who are left that aren't that way are often knee-jerk the other direction, quick to attack any criticism of Apple, regardless of how justified it is or the tone of the post in question. Pretty much this:

Half the posters were among the "Apple is doomed" crowd and the other half were the "Apple can do no wrong" cadre.

Though to be fair you DID say you were deliberately provocative, so ...

 

[Colstan]

I think some of that sort of problem at macrumors is how bifurcated the audience is - the general mood is so oppressive and demoralizing that those who are left that aren't that way are often knee-jerk the other direction, quick to attack any criticism of Apple, regardless of how justified it is or the tone of the post in question.

I can only take MacRumors in small doses, so I dip in and out, depending upon my mood and tolerance level for bullshit.

Though to be fair you DID say you were deliberately provocative, so ...

Only for a single post in the Mac Pro subforum, not in the general discussion threads. The Mac Pro users seem to be the most miserable, because they exist in an echo chamber where only that product exists, and the idea that Apple won't cater to their specific individual needs baffles them. I finally got sick of hearing about another Xeon model, hence I stirred the pot a little. I spent months trying to understand their plight, attempting to reason with them, and finally gave up. They act like somebody is dying, not a corporation going through a technology transition.

Apple isn't an "everything for everybody" company, that's the realm of Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and Microsoft. I understand and accept that. Apple may or may not be able to provide what I need, but I'm not going to shake my fist at the sky and blame Apple for pursuing its best interests as a business. For instance, Apple has been actively courting PC games company about porting to the Mac, but the studios have shown little interest. I give Apple credit for trying, and don't blame them when the fish don't bite.

So, I've made my decision to wait until late this year, survey the landscape, and then make a decision. I'm a highly decisive person, "maybe" typically isn't in my vocabulary, which is why this has been vexing me. Once I do make a call, I'll be fine with it, and get on with life, not go on MacRumors and complain endlessly.

 

[Colstan]

By the way, for anyone who skipped through all of my bellyaching, I just wanted to make it clear that I'm griping because I want Apple to succeed. The denizens of MacRumors don't seem to understand that you can be a fan of a company's products while also being critical of some of their decisions. I don't know why that's so hard for them to understand.

Also, I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here who talked me through this dilemma. I don't know anyone in Real Life™ who really "gets it", so your input has been invaluable. My mood has substantially improved after this discussion, I'm satisfied with my game plan, and will wait another six months before making a decision. This is a big purchase, so I want to get it right, and not regret spending $$$ on the wrong products.

So, thank you guys, I appreciate it, very much so.

 

[Nycturne]

Oh yeah, there was a period right before Apple Silicon where I was wondering if Apple made products that fit my needs anymore. After my first experience being a Mac SE/30 back when I was a kid (before that was an Apple II+). So I've been in Apple's sphere a very long time.

Stuff's weird for Apple right now, and there are certain markets that are seemingly allergic to the Mac more now than ever, especially after industry consolidation.