Gurman's WWDC announcement predictions.

[dada_dave]

Apple isn't doomed and Tim Cook doesn't need to be fired. That's hyperbole from people who just want to complain about something and Apple makes for a gigantic target.

I was being facetious.

 

[Colstan]

I was being facetious.

I know.

But some of the posters over at MacRumors aren't. Spend a few minutes in the Mac Pro section of their forum and you'll see that they are dead serious. There are posters who sincerely believe that if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro doesn't meet their fantasy requirements, the lowest volume product that Apple ships, then Apple is doomed and Tim Cook will have to be replaced. One dude became so unhinged about it that the mods had to put him on timeout. So, not only do I want to see the next Mac Pro for my own reasons, but to witness the reaction over in the twilight zone.

 

[Citysnaps]

Apple, thus far. Johny Srouji and Tim Cook need to show us what they've got, and WWDC is the date to do it. Apple needs to complete the transition, no more delays, three years is enough.

I'm optimistic. The last three years have been an aberration unlike we've ever seen (in recent history), and has turned business operations in many sectors of the economy upside down, with delays, shortages, increasing prices, and for some, massive layoffs. For the most part Apple has managed that very well.

As long as Srouji is still employed at Apple I'm not worrying much. Wouldn't be surprised if there are some minor delays going forward. Just gotta roll with them and be patient.

 

[dada_dave]

I know.

But some of the posters over at MacRumors aren't. Spend a few minutes in the Mac Pro section of their forum and you'll see that they are dead serious. There are posters who sincerely believe that if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro doesn't meet their fantasy requirements, the lowest volume product that Apple ships, then Apple is doomed and Tim Cook will have to be replaced. One dude became so unhinged about it that the mods had to put him on timeout. So, not only do I want to see the next Mac Pro for my own reasons, but to witness the reaction over in the twilight zone.

Oh I know I was just over there a few days ago just to see the headlines and the top forum thread people were discussing was all about how Apple is doomed now and Tim Cook should be fired. I took that basically right from the OP/title. It was mostly some pet peeve of the poster too and he was dead serious.

 

[Citysnaps]

I know.

But some of the posters over at MacRumors aren't. Spend a few minutes in the Mac Pro section of their forum and you'll see that they are dead serious. There are posters who sincerely believe that if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro doesn't meet their fantasy requirements, the lowest volume product that Apple ships, then Apple is doomed and Tim Cook will have to be replaced. One dude became so unhinged about it that the mods had to put him on timeout. So, not only do I want to see the next Mac Pro for my own reasons, but to witness the reaction over in the twilight zone.

It's always the-sky-is-falling extremes over there. Every. Single. Day. Going back more than a decade. People there speak with unearned authority, like they're experts. They're not. Just perpetually unhappy people that need to blurt something negative out in order to feel better, and feel like they have some kind of agency that's otherwise lacking.

 

[Colstan]

I'm optimistic. The last three years have been an aberration unlike we've ever seen (in recent history), and has turned business operations in many sectors of the economy upside down, with delays, shortages, increasing prices, and for some, massive layoffs. For the most part Apple has managed that very well.

This is why I like this forum. Most of the folks here seem to be optimists, including yourself @Citysnaps, and our friend, @dada_dave, among many other contributors. It's much better than spending time wallowing in the depressive muck over at MacRumors. Even if I am more pessimistic than others about the future of the Mac platform, I appreciate the positivity from the optimists here, rare species that you are. Regardless of my personal outlook, stewing in the MacRumors soup is most detrimental to one's mental health.

Despite my reservations, I am looking forward to WWDC, with both curiosity and trepidation in equal measure. I don't think I'm even asking for that much. A bug fix release of macOS and completing the transition to Apple Silicon should be bare minimum requirements from the conference.

 

[dada_dave]

This is why I like this forum. Most of the folks here seem to be optimists, including yourself @Citysnaps, and our friend, @dada_dave, among many other contributors. It's much better than spending time wallowing in the depressive muck over at MacRumors. Even if I am more pessimistic than others about the future of the Mac platform, I appreciate the positivity from the optimists here, rare species that you are. Regardless of my personal outlook, stewing in the MacRumors soup is most detrimental to one's mental health.

Despite my reservations, I am looking forward to WWDC, with both curiosity and trepidation in equal measure. I don't think I'm even asking for that much. A bug fix release of macOS and completing the transition to Apple Silicon should be bare minimum requirements from the conference.

Yeah I’m optimistic overall … but I’ll freely empathize with anyone who (reasonably) expresses (a reasonable) frustration with the platform/transition. The transition has been drawn out and I definitely have my own pet peeves, gripes, and frustrations about Apple products including the Mac. Also I’m not really a fan of people who endlessly praise Apple and some who troll PC/Android forums - funnily enough happens less often than you’d might think compared to PC/Android fans complaining about Apple fans and how we’re all sheeple, but it’s grating when it does.

As for the future? Basically I liked that tone of the Snazzy lab video I shared with you a week or so ago: there are drawbacks to the direction Apple is moving in but a lot to be excited about as well. Tempered enthusiasm is the key, never too hyped, never too disappointed.

 

[Colstan]

Yeah I’m optimistic overall

This place is good therapy for me. Back when the M2 Pro/Max were delayed, you're the one who got me through all of my bitching, and two weeks later the new chips were announced. Afterward, I felt like an idiot.

I’ll freely empathize with anyone who (reasonably) expresses (a reasonable) frustration with the platform/transition.

For me it's not simply being impatient, but a practical issue that's going to impact my life. As you've probably noticed, I've been bloviating endlessly about potentially building a gaming PC. Ever since I started building PCs many moons ago, I've essentially had a Ship of Theseus computer, with one part inherited from the last. All of my current gear is aging out quickly, so next time I'm doing everything brand spanking new, no more holding it together with sticks and bubble gum.

That's my frustrating dilemma. Over the past three or so years I've become increasingly more interested in PC games, which I hadn't paid much attention to since I switched to the Mac in 2005. Now, I'm completely immersed in the technologies involved, as evidenced by our discussions in the Gaming subforum. In short, I face the age old problem of wanting to play PC games while being a Mac user. For various reasons, including cost, practicality, time management, and simply not having enough physical space, I can't have both a PC and a Mac. Boot Camp was always a kludge, anyway, and Apple Silicon is better for the Mac as a platform. This wasn't a sudden realization, it took a while, until recently when I realized that I was standing at a crossroads.

You can probably see where this is going... I haven't talked about it publicly, but I figure nobody here is going to tar and feather me over it, but I'm trying to decide whether I can live with a Mac for gaming or will have to go with a custom PC. I'm putting heat on Apple because I want performance parts, I don't care about energy efficiency, give me the juice. The next Mac Pro should give some indication of how serious Apple is about high-end desktop chips, that's why I want to see the damn thing. If Apple can produce performance SoCs, then running Asahi Linux on such a creature may be good enough to satisfy my gaming fix, once they get Proton up and running. That way I'd get to have my Mac and eat it too.

So, I'm in a twitchy phase right now. I don't particularly want to switch to PC, absolutely hate Windows, but want access to PC games. I'd rather stick with Mac, but I need to see how far Apple is willing to push their silicon products and whether the Asahi team will be able to get their distro performant enough to play intensive Proton games.

I don't expect anyone here to have answers, but I'm approaching an inflection point in my computing decision making process, hence I'm rather anxious about the whole affair, which I hope is understandable.

 

[Yoused]

BlackTrashCan and CheeseGraterMkII were six years apart. Granted, there was no transition pressure, but still, I suspect people looking at five-digit-base-price computers would prefer a thing that was not hastily cobbled together.

 

[dada_dave]

This place is good therapy for me. Back when the M2 Pro/Max were delayed, you're the one who got me through all of my bitching, and two weeks later the new chips were announced. Afterward, I felt like an idiot.


For me it's not simply being impatient, but a practical issue that's going to impact my life. As you've probably noticed, I've been bloviating endlessly about potentially building a gaming PC. Ever since I started building PCs many moons ago, I've essentially had a Ship of Theseus computer, with one part inherited from the last. All of my current gear is aging out quickly, so next time I'm doing everything brand spanking new, no more holding it together with sticks and bubble gum.

That's my frustrating dilemma. Over the past three or so years I've become increasingly more interested in PC games, which I hadn't paid much attention to since I switched to the Mac in 2005. Now, I'm completely immersed in the technologies involved, as evidenced by our discussions in the Gaming subforum. In short, I face the age old problem of wanting to play PC games while being a Mac user. For various reasons, including cost, practicality, time management, and simply not having enough physical space, I can't have both a PC and a Mac. Boot Camp was always a kludge, anyway, and Apple Silicon is better for the Mac as a platform. This wasn't a sudden realization, it took a while, until recently when I realized that I was standing at a crossroads.

You can probably see where this is going... I haven't talked about it publicly, but I figure nobody here is going to tar and feather me over it, but I'm trying to decide whether I can live with a Mac for gaming or will have to go with a custom PC. I'm putting heat on Apple because I want performance parts, I don't care about energy efficiency, give me the juice. The next Mac Pro should give some indication of how serious Apple is about high-end desktop chips, that's why I want to see the damn thing. If Apple can produce performance SoCs, then running Asahi Linux on such a creature may be good enough to satisfy my gaming fix, once they get Proton up and running. That way I'd get to have my Mac and eat it too.

So, I'm in a twitchy phase right now. I don't particularly want to switch to PC, absolutely hate Windows, but want access to PC games. I'd rather stick with Mac, but I need to see how far Apple is willing to push their silicon products and whether the Asahi team will be able to get their distro performant enough to play intensive Proton games.

I don't expect anyone here to have answers, but I'm approaching an inflection point in my computing decision making process, hence I'm rather anxious about the whole affair, which I hope is understandable.

Glad I could help and actually I’m in almost the same boat - I’ve got an aging Nvidia iMac from 2013 and a Linux box and I’m trying to figure out what the best combo of devices is for me going forwards given that I want to have a Mac but I also want to do CUDA programming and it’s not yet clear if future AS Mac + Asahi will let me combine things into one (as of now the answer is no). I’d also love to get back into gaming on the computer health and time permitting. But that’s secondary.

So I’m definitely interested in a 15” Air and definitely want to see the new Mac Pro, even if it ends up not being for me, before pulling the trigger on anything. But it’s been a long slog to get here.

 

[leman]

With so many conflicting predictions and leaks I kind of lost all the ability to speculate. At this point it’s fingers crossed and hoping for some good stuff

 

[Colstan]

Glad I could help and actually I’m in almost the same boat - I’ve got an aging Nvidia iMac from 2013 and a Linux box and I’m trying to figure out what the best combo of devices is for me going forwards

I hear ya, brother. I'm using a 2018 Mac mini + RX 580 eGPU combo, which is quickly aging out for the games I wish to play. Plus, Boot Camp stopped working with the eGPU after a firmware update last year, leaving me stuck with just Mac titles, which are quickly running dry, particularly now that many new games only work on Apple Silicon. I'm getting squeezed out from both sides.

I want to have a Mac but I also want to do CUDA programming and it’s not yet clear if future AS Mac + Asahi will let me combine things into one (as of now the answer is no).

My current plan, assuming everything perfectly lines up, is to purchase a next generation headless Mac and use Proton on Asahi Linux to access Windows-only games. The two inherent assumptions are that Apple can produce performance desktop chips and that Aashi Linux will be able to handle intensive PC games. Neither of those are proven, as of yet. Oddly enough, I have more confidence in the Asahi team to perform miracles than Johny Srouji to release chips on time.

WWDC is my soft deadline. Even though I won't be purchasing a Mac Pro, it will inform us of Apple's ability to produce performant desktop chips. If the SoC stands on its own, then that is a good sign. However, if Apple ships it with third-party GPU support, thus breaking their current model, then I think that is a signal that they are unable to match PC graphics cards. That would be an instant fail in my eyes. I don't expect crazy 4090 performance, but I don't see why Apple can't match something like the 4070. Even if there were third-party eGPU support, I'm done with that kludge. eGPUs are too much of a pain to work with and I doubt the Asahi team will bother supporting them, anyway.

Then there is the Asahi Linux project itself, which is a wild card, but the progress they have made is remarkable and they seem determined to get Proton working. Just how successful they are is an open question.

I’d also love to get back into gaming on the computer health and time permitting.

Other than the obvious reasons I mentioned before about cost, practicality, time management, and physical space, there's another reason that I don't want to dual-wield a PC and a Mac. Computers are like kids, they require constant attention, and get cranky if you don't tend to them. I'm old, I'm hurt, I'm tired, and I don't feel like working with two children. I love my nephew, but I'm glad he doesn't have a twin.

But it’s been a long slog to get here.

I've been on that same slog, it's wearing me out, and it's just computer stuff, not life or death. Hence, the WWDC soft deadline. The next window for new Macs is probably October or November, after the usual September iPhone event, and I'm not waiting that long.

The other shoe I'm waiting on to drop is the release of Alan Wake 2 sometime later this year. Remedy studios makes my favorite PC games, they have never bothered with the Mac during their 27 years of existance, and I've enjoyed all of their titles from Max Payne to Control. Alan Wake is my all-time favorite game, I want to play the sequel, along with Control 2 in a few years, so that's another factor weighing on me.

Therefore, I've got some hard choices coming up, and I'll be most displeased if the Mac Pro fails to make an appearance at WWDC. I won't go on MacRumors and grouse about it. I'll simply make a judgement call, one which fits my needs, and get on with my life. I've been weighing this for three years now, but at some point, one has to make a decision. My next computer, whether Mac or PC, is going to be my first all-new build since I got on this rodeo as a teenager, so it's "go big or go home" time.

My tale of woe aside, I appreciate you sharing your own computing struggles, @dada_dave, it's good to chat with you and the other folks here about these issues. Change is the only constant in life, which is why I have never locked myself into a vendor ecosystem. It reminds me of these wise words of advice:

"My thinking always evolves. Steve taught me well: never to get married to your convictions of yesteryear. To always, if presented with something new that says you were wrong, admit it and go forward instead of continuing to hunker down and say why you're right."
- Tim Cook

 

[Roller]

When asked, I've generally advised people who want to take advantage of a complete portfolio of games to go with Windows, unless they have reasons to prefer the Mac ecosystem, of which there are many. And I certainly understand the attraction of gaming on the same computer used for other tasks from a cost, effort, and space perspective.

The only game-like title I want to use is Microsoft Flight Simulator (it's been years since there was a viable flight sim for macOS). I'd love it if there were a way to run MSFS on my Mac, apart from subscribing to Xbox Game Pass, which is pricey.

Regardless, even though I'm not in the market for any new hardware (my Mac Studio should be good for years), I'm more interested in WWDC 2023 than I have been in previous years, if only to see what Apple does with the Mac Pro, the rumored VR headset, and OS software.

 

[Colstan]

When asked, I've generally advised people who want to take advantage of a complete portfolio of games to go with Windows, unless they have reasons to prefer the Mac ecosystem, of which there are many. And I certainly understand the attraction of gaming on the same computer used for other tasks from a cost, effort, and space perspective.

I'm in the unusual position of having every game title I traditionally play having a Mac native version, while wanting to expand to other categories. Namely, my favorite genre of game are isometric turn-based RPGs, of which essentially all of them have a Mac version, which is a bizarre happenstance. Thing is, with a few Windows-only games coming from my favorite studio, Remedy, it leaves me in the challenging position of whether the tradeoffs are worth the effort.

There's nothing holding me to macOS other than personal preference. I added it up, and I was a Windows user for 10 years, but a Mac user for 18 years, even though in my mind, the Windows period seems longer because I was younger, back when I regularly built PCs. Human memory is a strange thing. Regardless, I'm not part of any corporate ecosystem, nor do I have Mac specific software which I require.

What is holding me back is my strong personal preference for the Mac, my equally strong dislike of Windows, and generally not wanting to go through the tedium of building a custom PC. I've looked into compromise solutions, whether that be game streaming, consoles, pre-builts, dual computers, or hacks like CrossOver and Parallels. All of them come up short, Proton on Asahi Linux may be the only alternative worth considering, and that may never materialize, at least not in an acceptably useful state. On top of that, Apple's attempts to court game developers has shown limited results, thus far.

Finally, there's simple familiarity. I've been with the Mac for nearly two decades. I'm constantly learning something new, despite my extensive experience with it. Giving up that muscle memory and knowhow aren't something easily discarded, particularly when the alternative is an unpleasant hodgepodge of random hardware and software from dozens of vendors. There's a certain elegance to Apple's vertical integration with the Mac, controlling the entire stack, running the last official consumer UNIX on the only mainstream RISC desktop chips.

I've waited three years on this decision, as of the writing of this post, we've got exactly seven weeks until WWDC, and can certainly hold off on any big decisions until I see what the fruit company announces.

 

[Herdfan]

Apple products just last too long. My first iMac ( a 2011 27") gave me 5 good years. I would have been on my 3rd PC in that time. But it's video card died (twice) and after the second time, I decided to upgrade. I bought a 2015 refurb in 2016 and it is still running strong. Had one minor issue that an OS upgrade fixed, but at this point it is more want than need. My 2011 17" MBP is still humming along but doesn't get much use these days.

Looked at the Studio and Studio Display and I may go that route. I do wish the current iMacs could be used as monitors. Shame to waste a perfectly good display.

 

[Roller]

Apple products just last too long. My first iMac ( a 2011 27") gave me 5 good years. I would have been on my 3rd PC in that time. But it's video card died (twice) and after the second time, I decided to upgrade. I bought a 2015 refurb in 2016 and it is still running strong. Had one minor issue that an OS upgrade fixed, but at this point it is more want than need. My 2011 17" MBP is still humming along but doesn't get much use these days.

Looked at the Studio and Studio Display and I may go that route. I do wish the current iMacs could be used as monitors. Shame to waste a perfectly good display.

I've been very satisfied with my Mac Studio and Apple Studio Display. You may want to wait a bit to see if Apple updates either (maybe a better webcam in the ASD, though the current one is fine.) You also might be able to pick up the current ones if Apple does update them.

 

[Citysnaps]

I've been very satisfied with my Mac Studio and Apple Studio Display. You may want to wait a bit to see if Apple updates either (maybe a better webcam in the ASD, though the current one is fine.) You also might be able to pick up the current ones if Apple does update them.

I've been happy with my Studio Mac and Studio Display as well. It's a great display and really nice on my eyes compared to the display in my M1 MBA which fries them over long periods of use.

My only gripe is the Studio Display doesn't have an on/off switch. That would be useful when running X-Plane into three other LG displays (-60/0/+60 degree field of view) where I'd rather not waste fps potential on the Studio Display which isn't needed. I can turn it off via Settings, but that's kind of a pain having to remember to enable it when I just want to use the Studio Display for processing photos or other normal computer stuff as it also messes up the field of view parameters I set in X-Plane.

 

[Roller]

I've been happy with my Studio Mac and Studio Display as well. It's a great display and really nice on my eyes compared to the display in my M1 MBA which fries them over long periods of use.

My only gripe is the Studio Display doesn't have an on/off switch. That would be useful when running X-Plane into three other LG displays (-60/0/+60 degree field of view) where I'd rather not waste fps potential on the Studio Display which isn't needed. I can turn it off via Settings, but that's kind of a pain having to remember to enable it when I just want to use the Studio Display for processing photos or other normal computer stuff as it also messes up the field of view parameters I set in X-Plane.

Thanks for posting. You reminded me about X-Plane, which is excellent. So I was wrong when I said there were no viable flight sims for Mac.

I agree about the lack of an on-off switch on the ASD, by the way.

 

[dada_dave]

I've been happy with my Studio Mac and Studio Display as well. It's a great display and really nice on my eyes compared to the display in my M1 MBA which fries them over long periods of use.

My only gripe is the Studio Display doesn't have an on/off switch. That would be useful when running X-Plane into three other LG displays (-60/0/+60 degree field of view) where I'd rather not waste fps potential on the Studio Display which isn't needed. I can turn it off via Settings, but that's kind of a pain having to remember to enable it when I just want to use the Studio Display for processing photos or other normal computer stuff as it also messes up the field of view parameters I set in X-Plane.

Thanks for posting. You reminded me about X-Plane, which is excellent. So I was wrong when I said there were no viable flight sims for Mac.

I agree about the lack of an on-off switch on the ASD, by the way.

Back on the day I fixed the joystick code for Wine to get flight sticks working properly on OS X (they were bugged and half baked) - it was a fun mini project. Was quite a steep learning curve since I knew nothing about OS-level frameworks and had to learn both the OS X IOHID and the old/current (at the time) Windows version and how to map between them. Thankfully the working Linux code served as a guide and there was some Mac code even if it didn’t work right. A guy on the Wine team helped me format the patch correctly and clean it up. It was a good experience.

So long story short through Wine you’ve got a bunch more! well that is if it works with the rest of Wine of course.

 

[KingOfPain]

Was quite a steep learning curve since I knew nothing about OS-level frameworks and had to learn both the OS X IOHID and the old/current (at the time) Windows version and how to map between them.

A bit off-topic, but this reminds me that I have a book somewhere, which has a chapter called: The Good, the Bad and the HID