M4 Mac Announcements
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Andropov
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Wow, even though the MacBook Air wasn't updated with M4, all the existing models (including the M2 MacBook Air!) have been updated to start at 16GB of RAM. It was about time Apple fixed this issue with the base models, the amount of RAM was severely constraining the base models.
Jimmyjames
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1000 nits standard brightness is great. Also, all existing M2 and M3 models (MBA) in the lineup get upgraded to 16GB.
Jimmyjames
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Jinx!
I really wish they had offered an additional M4 max SKU for the mini lineup but likely I'm wondering if there would be thermal constraints with the new enclosure. The likelihood is that we'll see M4 studio in the spring for that one.
I'm probably the only one, but I'm excited to see what improvements were made to the 12mp front facing camera of the new macbooks. That's been my biggest pet peeve of the M1, M2 and M3 macbook pros.
Other than that - I loved the updates this week.
As I said in another thread, I'm struggling post M4 Pro and Max to understand why anybody would opt for the M2 Studio or M2 Mac Pro lineups with these new M4 machines. Especially now with thunderbolt 5 options what exactly is the target audience of the Mac Pro or Studio in November December 2024 when you could buy M4 Max Macbook pro's or M4 Pro Mac minis ...
I gotta say though that the final 3d 'pinky promise' video at end of their presentation for 'M4 Power' was next level cringe for me. Apple marketing is missing a beat with the latest advert campaigns. I think it would have had more effect for me if they said something like 'this advert was created and runs in real-time on M4 Max'. Outside of that I just found myself scratching my head thinking SNL could have a lot of fun with this!
I miss the days of powermac G4 pentagon adverts, the intel snail, the i'm a mac and I'm a pc days!
I'm probably the only one, but I'm excited to see what improvements were made to the 12mp front facing camera of the new macbooks. That's been my biggest pet peeve of the M1, M2 and M3 macbook pros.
Other than that - I loved the updates this week.
As I said in another thread, I'm struggling post M4 Pro and Max to understand why anybody would opt for the M2 Studio or M2 Mac Pro lineups with these new M4 machines. Especially now with thunderbolt 5 options what exactly is the target audience of the Mac Pro or Studio in November December 2024 when you could buy M4 Max Macbook pro's or M4 Pro Mac minis ...
I gotta say though that the final 3d 'pinky promise' video at end of their presentation for 'M4 Power' was next level cringe for me. Apple marketing is missing a beat with the latest advert campaigns. I think it would have had more effect for me if they said something like 'this advert was created and runs in real-time on M4 Max'. Outside of that I just found myself scratching my head thinking SNL could have a lot of fun with this!
I miss the days of powermac G4 pentagon adverts, the intel snail, the i'm a mac and I'm a pc days!
Jimmyjames
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Agreed the Studio is a very hard sell currently.
It’s not a great advert I agree. Yesterday’s Mini one was better.
Jimmyjames
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Should probably be in the gaming section, but Cyberpunk 2077 is coming to macOS early next year.
www.cyberpunk.net
Just Announced — Cyberpunk 2077: Ultimate Edition Coming to Mac!
Available early next year on Macs with Apple silicon, the Ultimate Edition will launch on the Mac App Store and Steam.
www.cyberpunk.net
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- Main Camera
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i think it has more to do with differentiating the eventual studio and less to do with thermals. Though I suppose that doubling the GPU cores may be a bit more than the tiny enclosure could comfortably handle.
I have to disagree. I think putting more CPU cores in the Max would just make the thermal situation uncomfortable (by Apple's standards). The die will be interesting to see if there are extra disabled cores in the Pro die or if the Pro die in addition to being chopped also has a slightly different cluster configuration. I believe @mr_roboto's point was that it wouldn't be too hard for Apple to do that. I actually feel it's the Pro CPU that is awkward here, again I would have preferred them trade a couple of CPU cores for more GPU cores.
The progression is a little awkward, especially for the CPU:
P+E CPU/GPU
M4 4+6/10 -> M4 Pro 10+4/20 -> M4 Max 12+4/40
I just feel like in the Pro price tier the CPU power is overkill while the GPU power is a little underwhelming. I mean the GPU is okay and at 2 extra cores plus a speed bump should be a nice boost over the M3 Pro, but I feel like it could be pushed a little more. But that may be a function of the M4 Pro being a chopped Max.
Yeah in that case I think even in highly multicore scenarios the top end M4 Max should still be challenging x86 desktops, maybe not the 9950X/285V but certainly the 9900x and maybe 265K. Take CB R24 for instance, a benchmark that heavily favors large core/thread counts: the 9900X gets 1,700 points roughly while the 265K is about 2,000 points while the M3 Max is about 1600. At 20% improvement the M4 Max should be much better than the 9900X while maybe on par with, maybe slightly slower than the 265K. Geekbench 6 which deliberately doesn't scale as well with threads should favor the M4 Max even more. So I'd say 12 P-core and 4 E-cores is already more than enough for Apple's top end laptop. There may be no kill like overkill but even so ...
Yeah they really should updated the RAM in the M3 generation. I would've liked them update the storage tiers in the M4. Maybe M5 ...
Gurman says summer, hopefully he is wrong.
BTW when I responded to you earlier it was not that I disagreed with you but merely stating that it is par for the course for Apple to keep the older models even when it is a little ridiculous that they haven't been updated and are obsolete relative to other models being offered.
Andropov
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Yeah the M2 Ultra is in a really awkward position right now. It's a bit crazy that it won't be updated until *at least* January (probably later).
I agree. It seems that Apple is going for their old formula of "really fast CPUs and kind of meh GPU". I understand where this comes from, but it is a bit disappointing for those who need more GPU performance. Curious to see how Cyberpunk runs on the Pro version.
True. It should be somewhere between 9900x and 9950x. I mean, already M3 Max was the fastest laptop CPU in the world, this just adds to the hurt.
Nycturne
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Meanwhile, I’m over here happy with where the CPU in the Pro landed.
I see it somewhat differently. GPU *is* the primary differentiation on the pro end. For someone like me who does relatively light photo work (other than PixInsight), code, and some CAD, throwing GPU at the problem doesn’t really help me much here. But not having to buy a bunch of GPU for my use cases is a benefit because I can use that money to feed PixInsight’s voracious appetite for scratch space.
There are folks who have done tests with the M3 Pro and GPTK to see how 2077 runs. It’s not too bad. Not stellar, but playable.
Jimmyjames
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I think for most people buying the Mini, more cpu is probably more useful than more gpu. I would love huge gpu improvements personally, but that doesn’t seem to be the case for the majority.
Jimmyjames
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Hopefully the fact that it’s getting ported will yield significantly better performance than relying on Crossover.
Nycturne
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Agreed, especially if it integrates with Metal upscaling. I was just more trying to set a baseline expectation.
You know they never ported The Witcher 3 to the Mac, fascinating that they are doing so with Cyberpunk 2077, same engine I think (or at least CP 2077 is the upgraded RED engine relative to TW3 and the next Witcher game will be on Unreal - not guaranteed to have a Mac port quickly, but more likely).Should probably be in the gaming section, but Cyberpunk 2077 is coming to macOS early next year.
Just Announced — Cyberpunk 2077: Ultimate Edition Coming to Mac!
Available early next year on Macs with Apple silicon, the Ultimate Edition will launch on the Mac App Store and Steam.
Aye I'd love to be a fly on the wall when executives and engineers were making their decisions.
And that's probably the primary use case they are thinking of, but Apple is trying to push into gaming and it would be nice to give the GPUs some uplift. I feel like the Pro's price point is really the where Apple could release a decent SOC for gaming - it still wouldn't be a gaming SOC, but a little tilted in that direction. And I'm only talking about getting rid of 2 of the CPU cores, given how good they are 8 M4 performance cores would still be really performant.
Something like 8+4 or 8+6/24 cores. Just a bump.
It should be better when native ... if the port is good.
Hmmm ... I dunno a small form factor machine with a good GPU could be a nice sell to attract more people to the platform and again I feel like 8 M4 performance cores is already really powerful.
I'm too slow.
NotEntirelyConfused
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No way to know that until we see die shots. I'm guessing he was wrong, but my original idea that the 10P Pro has 12 cores with two fused might be right, in which case he could be right as well.
I thought it was hilarious.
In the 16" MBP:
The M3 Pro and M4 Pro have the same starting price. The M4 Pro gives +2 CPU cores, +2 GPU cores, + 6 GB RAM. If you upgrade RAM, you get 48 GB instead of 32 GB for the same price. But while the M4 Pro Mini gives a 64 GB RAM option with both lower-end and upper-end M4 Pro chips, the 16" M4 Pro MBP, in spite of coming with the upper-end Pro chip only, maxes out at 48 GB.
The M3 Max and M4 Max have the same starting price. The M4 Max gives +2 GPU cores. The M4 Max has the the same starting RAM and same RAM upgrade options as the M3 Max (and for the same price), except the lower-end M4 Max chip is offered with 36 GB only (on the lower-end M3 Max, one had both 36 GB and 96 GB options).
The M4's offer a nano-texture screen on the MBP for the first time.
The M3 Pro and M4 Pro have the same starting price. The M4 Pro gives +2 CPU cores, +2 GPU cores, + 6 GB RAM. If you upgrade RAM, you get 48 GB instead of 32 GB for the same price. But while the M4 Pro Mini gives a 64 GB RAM option with both lower-end and upper-end M4 Pro chips, the 16" M4 Pro MBP, in spite of coming with the upper-end Pro chip only, maxes out at 48 GB.
The M3 Max and M4 Max have the same starting price. The M4 Max gives +2 GPU cores. The M4 Max has the the same starting RAM and same RAM upgrade options as the M3 Max (and for the same price), except the lower-end M4 Max chip is offered with 36 GB only (on the lower-end M3 Max, one had both 36 GB and 96 GB options).
The M4's offer a nano-texture screen on the MBP for the first time.
KingOfPain
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For easier comparison, I've updated my Mx table. Now I wonder if we are ever going to see an M3 Ultra...
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
EDIT2: Updated table with M4 Max is on the next page. Outdated table removed.
EDIT: Fixed a typo.
EDIT2: Updated table with M4 Max is on the next page. Outdated table removed.
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