Ron DeSantis: What in the ever loving fuck is wrong with him?

[Chew Toy McCoy]

But if they are both on stage at the same time, Biden will look way older.



No, but DeSantis is Trump without all the negatives. If he can show the always-Trumpers he understand them he will peel some support.

Let's face it, Biden didn't win the election, Trump lost it. Too many people didn't like his mean Tweets or other things he did. He didn't lose on his policies, he lost on his personality.

I heard it suggested that the only way Trump can be taken out on the debate stage, and he would have to open the door for such a response which he surely will, is for the target of his attack to go full Will Smith bitch slap. Not only would this please a good percentage of the country (finally somebody did it!) but it would also appeal to the MAGA strongman fetish.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Florida county Republican Party votes to ban the COVID-19 vaccine

Lee Co. Republican Party member Joe Sansone called the vaccine a bioweapon

www.cbsnews.com

Thankfully I don’t think this was going to pass and hasn’t. And I believe even if it did, it’s a resolution, not a law. But the point is effectively the same. I’m sure DeSantis would have no problem signing this if he thought it would help him, but I think he’s smart enough to know this would kill any chance of winning over moderates who he needs.

This is one of those examples of a political party taking a fairly reasonable idea held by a lot of people and then running with it to the extreme, making fools of themselves and undermining the original underlying point.

In this case, the underlying idea held by many is that individuals should have the right to decide whether or not COVID-19 vaccines should be mandated (or mandated to participate in most public functions of society). That’s not a particularly crazy idea considering personal autonomy is the basically a pillar of modern medical ethics.

But then that gets manipulated into the vaccine needs to be banned… feeding off conspiracy theories or more often misunderstood and/or hysterical interpretations of possible side effects. If the vaccine is a “bioweapon” then so is almost every other pharmaceutical product is a weapon.

This and a slew of other issues is only breeding a growing population of not just anti-vaxxers, but never-vaxxers. These law makers for obviously far too stupid to be be serving in government.

 

[AG_PhamD]

This guy is flat out dangerous, this war they're waging on Trans people along with all of his new proposals are flat out Fascist, including the new one where he wants people to register with the state if they're going to speak his name. It's a scary road they're going down.

Frankly, I hope Trump remains the front runner, he's more about himself than anything. It also bodes well for Democrats because I think it'll be hard for him to beat Biden a second time as well.

I will admit when DeSantis first came onto the scene in early 2020 during the pandemic I found him intriguing- knowing only his COVID related policies. At the time I thought (and still do) some of Florida’s COVID measures were far more sensible than what other states were doing at the the time. And the metrics supported that at the time, especially considering Florida’s elderly population. Their vaccine distribution program early on appeared to be working better than many other states, including my own in Mass. And I believe because his policies opposed the master narrative, the media tried to do a hit job on him with the whole Publix pharmacy conspiracy that ended up blowing up in their face. Or all the attention they gave to an insane woman who was fired from the Dept of Health claiming DeSantis wanted data manipulated, which should have easily been dismissed at the time and obviously since has been. And I found he was very effective cutting through the media’s BS. And he quickly appeared to be a potential future presidential condenser.

That said, over some period of time, it became very apparent to me DeSantis is a potentially very dangerous character based on his other policies. His attitude on COVID I believe went from being more sensible to being directed by the opinions of greater right wing. And over the past 1-2 years he has perpetuated this extremely disturbing series policy that appears to crack down on 1st amendment rights, amongst other issues.

He has fully embraced the culture war and while I do think some of his “laws” address legitimate concerns people may have, I do not agree with legislating ones way out of these social conflicts- certainly not how he is doing it. Many of his laws are so incredibly vague it’s rather concerning what could potentially be enforced. That said, I question if some of these could actually hold up in court.

Trump is dangerous because of his personality- his narcissism, unpredictability, etc. But in terms of policy, as much as the media liked to pretend, he was pretty mainstream Republican. I actually don’t think Trump had many particularly strong political opinions, he just liked the power. DeSantis however has a much more amenable personality and professional image, but actually has far more radical and authoritarian views, particularly on social issues.

The media does a disservice calling DeSantis “Trump-lite” or a “Professional version of Trump”- because he is not. They’re trying to use the existing distaste for Trump and transfer it to Trump. But in reality I think while far more stable than Trump, Desantis is a far, far more radical ideologue with very different motives. Take your pick of which is worse, but I think Desantis may be in practical terms (the impact on peoples lives).

 

[Renzatic]

This is one of those examples of a political party taking a fairly reasonable idea held by a lot of people and then running with it to the extreme, making fools of themselves and undermining the original underlying point.

That's pretty much the modus operandi of the Republican party these days, isn't it?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

That's pretty much the modus operandi of the Republican party these days, isn't it?

The current belief is they need to go full nutter to win the primary but if they don't dial back the nuttery after that they will lose the general election.

I think DeSantis has already passed the threshold of being able to dial it back and nor does he want to.

 

[Alli]

But if they are both on stage at the same time, Biden will look way older.

And way more controlled. Not to mention Biden will look more human next to the orange faced guy with the bad combover.

No, but DeSantis is Trump without all the negatives.

No. DeSantis is Trump without the crazy, but with all the hate.

 

[Yoused]

No, but DeSantis is Trump without all the negatives.

No, the flaw in that reasoning is that Desantis is a politician, and has been for a lot of years. A big piece of Individual-ONE-support was from the he's-an-ordinary-guy view: he was good because of not being a polished pol. Desantis will have a very, very hard time trying to pull those acolytes in while still trying to maintain his look-how-good-I-am coiffeury.

 

[Herdfan]

The current belief is they need to go full nutter to win the primary but if they don't dial back the nuttery after that they will lose the general election.

I can say the exact same thing about the Dems.

 

[Eric]

I can say the exact same thing about the Dems.

You can say a lot of things about Biden but he's not a partisan nutter, at least to those who look at things objectively. I think of him like GW Bush, I never agreed with his policies but he definitely wasn't crazy that way. These are the politics I would like to see the country get back to.

As for DeSantis and the hardcore faction of the Republican party goes, their attacks on LGBTQ are dangerous, there is already enough animosity and hatred towards these people as it is and they're only fanning those flames to an already radicalized base.

If they genuinely cared about children they would start by legislating changes to prevent thousands of them from getting murdered by guns every year. Shootings are the number one killer of children in the US, none are dying from drag shows. This is the most disingenuous position I've ever seen Republicans take in my lifetime and that's saying something and DeSantis is championing it. I don't see Trump on that bandwagon as of yet.

 

[Herdfan]

You can say a lot of things about Biden but he's not a partisan nutter,

I never said Biden. I said Dems. I know lots can be said about the GOP, but many of what are now called radical ideas, mainly because the media knows calling it radical will get them clicks, are the same things they have been championing for 30 or more years. The GOP against abortion, well that's not new. The GOP protecting guns rights, also not new. The GOP being against LGBTQ rights, being moderated some, but still not new. But now they are radical.

And then there is the list of things Dems used to be against/for but have changed their stances. Things such as border security, crime, gay marriage, and the list goes on.

If they genuinely cared about children they would start by legislating changes to prevent thousands of them from getting murdered by guns every year. Shootings are the number one killer of children in the US, none are dying from drag shows. This is the most disingenuous position I've ever seen Republicans take in my lifetime and that's saying something and DeSantis is championing it. I don't see Trump on that bandwagon as of yet.

I look at it from the opposite side. Start putting those who are committing the crimes in jail. But when I would mention this before, it was because I was a racist that just wanted to lock up Black men. Sorry, but I don't care who gets locked up as long as it is those committing the crimes. I am all for background checks and Red Flag laws as long as Due Process is followed.

As for drag shows, if it were RuPaul, then who cares, but some of these shows are simply not appropriate for children. I really don't understand why the left is pushing so hard for kids to attend these things.

 

[Eric]

I never said Biden. I said Dems. I know lots can be said about the GOP, but many of what are now called radical ideas, mainly because the media knows calling it radical will get them clicks, are the same things they have been championing for 30 or more years. The GOP against abortion, well that's not new. The GOP protecting guns rights, also not new. The GOP being against LGBTQ rights, being moderated some, but still not new. But now they are radical.

And then there is the list of things Dems used to be against/for but have changed their stances. Things such as border security, crime, gay marriage, and the list goes on.



I look at it from the opposite side. Start putting those who are committing the crimes in jail. But when I would mention this before, it was because I was a racist that just wanted to lock up Black men. Sorry, but I don't care who gets locked up as long as it is those committing the crimes. I am all for background checks and Red Flag laws as long as Due Process is followed.

We agree here and in fact a lot more dems than you might think are fed up with this, in the Bay Area there's a huge backlash amongst Liberals who are fed up with the crime, they even drove the charge against the recall for the DA for giving criminals a free pass.

As for drag shows, if it were RuPaul, then who cares, but some of these shows are simply not appropriate for children. I really don't understand why the left is pushing so hard for kids to attend these things.

How are we supposed to think the party cares about children when thousands are killed by the same guns they are protecting? This is where it's so hard to believe they seriously want to protect them. There's just no wrapping ones head around this lack of logic.

 

[Citysnaps]

How are we supposed to think the party cares about children when thousands are killed by the same guns they are protecting? This is where it's so hard to believe they seriously want to protect them.

Sadly, they don't. And believe children murdered by firearms is simply an adverse consequence of no limitations gun ownership.

I truly believe that it's no more complicated than that.

 

[Roller]

Thankfully I don’t think this was going to pass and hasn’t. And I believe even if it did, it’s a resolution, not a law. But the point is effectively the same. I’m sure DeSantis would have no problem signing this if he thought it would help him, but I think he’s smart enough to know this would kill any chance of winning over moderates who he needs.

This is one of those examples of a political party taking a fairly reasonable idea held by a lot of people and then running with it to the extreme, making fools of themselves and undermining the original underlying point.

In this case, the underlying idea held by many is that individuals should have the right to decide whether or not COVID-19 vaccines should be mandated (or mandated to participate in most public functions of society). That’s not a particularly crazy idea considering personal autonomy is the basically a pillar of modern medical ethics.

But then that gets manipulated into the vaccine needs to be banned… feeding off conspiracy theories or more often misunderstood and/or hysterical interpretations of possible side effects. If the vaccine is a “bioweapon” then so is almost every other pharmaceutical product is a weapon.

This and a slew of other issues is only breeding a growing population of not just anti-vaxxers, but never-vaxxers. These law makers for obviously far too stupid to be be serving in government.

The phase in parentheses is key. Personal autonomy isn't limitless. You can refuse a vaccine, but if doing so makes you more likely to infect others, you should have restrictions placed on your activities. Even the requirement to wear a seatbelt, which was once considered an invasion of personal rights, is widely accepted, and it's mostly there to reduce the individual's likelihood of injury.

Vaccine mandates have been around for decades. Sure, there were always people who refused to have themselves or their children vaccinated, but not that many. What's different this time is that the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines used relatively new technology, were seized upon as evil/harmful, and politicized.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I can say the exact same thing about the Dems.

Honest question because I may be blind to this, but from your view what are the left wing nutter views that are being put front and center on the election trail? And I hope it's not all defund the police.

 

[Eric]

Honest question because I may be blind to this, but from your view what are the left wing nutter views that are being put front and center on the election trail? And I hope it's not all defund the police.

Children might be confused or be offended if a person dresses as the opposite gender, all while seeing the brains of their classmates scattered all over the halls by assault weapons and active shooter drills are commonplace.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Here's a fun fact. In 2021 and 2022 the homicide rate was higher in Florida than New York. Why Democrats have zero to say on the tough on crime statistics showing Republicans have nothing to brag about in most cases is beyond me.

 

[Renzatic]

The current belief is they need to go full nutter to win the primary but if they don't dial back the nuttery after that they will lose the general election.

I think DeSantis has already passed the threshold of being able to dial it back and nor does he want to.

This is, almost to a T, the exact explanation of why they lost a recent election that, by all indicators, they should've swept.

If these people want to tell everyone exactly who and what they are, then, by all means, let them.

 

[AG_PhamD]

The phase in parentheses is key. Personal autonomy isn't limitless. You can refuse a vaccine, but if doing so makes you more likely to infect others, you should have restrictions placed on your activities. Even the requirement to wear a seatbelt, which was once considered an invasion of personal rights, is widely accepted, and it's mostly there to reduce the individual's likelihood of injury.

Vaccine mandates have been around for decades. Sure, there were always people who refused to have themselves or their children vaccinated, but not that many. What's different this time is that the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines used relatively new technology, were seized upon as evil/harmful, and politicized.

I never said personal autonomy is absolute. I think it’s entirely reasonable for example for healthcare workers, military, first responders, etc to have certain vaccinations. Obviously the specific vaccine and workplace affects things but clearly such jobs have a higher level of risk, higher level of risk of transmission to others, and serious implications if many these people are unable to work due to illness. I’m also all for schools requiring vaccinations due to the well established risk. Obviously personal autonomy is also also affected when individuals are incapable of decision making. As I’m sure you know, the standards for involuntary hospitalization and refusing psychiatric meds can have an awfully high bar.

That said, I think we can recognize there is a difference between the intrusion of government forcing you to wear a seatbelt versus that of being mandated for injection of a pharmaceutical, even if it is overwhelmingly safe.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a huge proponent of vaccines. But generally speaking I think we ultimately have to respect people’s autonomy. That’s not to say not being vaccinated can’t have consequences for not being vaccinated, but where the the consequences start and end is where there is room for reasonable argument and justification for such measures.

 

[Roller]

I never said Biden. I said Dems. I know lots can be said about the GOP, but many of what are now called radical ideas, mainly because the media knows calling it radical will get them clicks, are the same things they have been championing for 30 or more years. The GOP against abortion, well that's not new. The GOP protecting guns rights, also not new. The GOP being against LGBTQ rights, being moderated some, but still not new. But now they are radical.

And then there is the list of things Dems used to be against/for but have changed their stances. Things such as border security, crime, gay marriage, and the list goes on.



I look at it from the opposite side. Start putting those who are committing the crimes in jail. But when I would mention this before, it was because I was a racist that just wanted to lock up Black men. Sorry, but I don't care who gets locked up as long as it is those committing the crimes. I am all for background checks and Red Flag laws as long as Due Process is followed.

As for drag shows, if it were RuPaul, then who cares, but some of these shows are simply not appropriate for children. I really don't understand why the left is pushing so hard for kids to attend these things.

Suggesting equivalence between the major parties’ policies and actions isn’t supported by evidence. It’s not Democrat-majority legislatures that have passed laws like concealed carry without a permit, abortion bans without exceptions, rewards for citizens reporting other citizens, limitations on voting rights, or banning gender-affirming care for children, to name just a few.

 

[Yoused]

Suggesting equivalence between the major parties’ policies and actions isn’t supported by evidence. It’s not Democrat-majority legislatures that have passed laws like concealed carry without a permit, abortion bans without exceptions, rewards for citizens reporting other citizens, limitations on voting rights, or banning gender-affirming care for children, to name just a few.

While true, what is troubling is that the Democrats do very little to counter those actions. We still have a Space Force, because, why the fuck do we have a Space Force? Earlier, we thought Obama would walk back some of W's egregious policies, but no, he fixed almost nothing.

Apparently, it is much easier to smash stuff than it is to take away their sledgehammers.