Ron DeSantis: What in the ever loving fuck is wrong with him?

[Eric]

I'm not saying they aren't.

Just wondering why people aren't leaving them like they are more liberal cities. Or if they are, why aren't there news stories about it?

Urban (liberal) cities are far more densely populated than rural (conservative) cities, and when we talk about people "flocking" it's still a small portion of the pie when looking at the bigger picture. So one could ask why tens of thousands are leaving NY or SF but it still leaves millions that aren't, you can't say that about Atlanta or Cleveland where it would really cut into their population. This trope is always a misconception propagated by the right and their attacks on larger cities.

 

[Herdfan]

This trope is always a misconception propagated by the right and their attacks on larger cities.

Is it really?

You are one of the few here that will really admit crime is getting out of hand in some places. I still don't see videos of aisles of products behind glass because of "shoplifting" or other organized retail theft in conservative areas.

So are companies such as Whole Foods or Nordstroms closing stores in conservative cities? It isn't just about the actual level crime, but the response to it. People need to believe that something will be done about it.

 

[Eric]

Is it really?

You are one of the few here that will really admit crime is getting out of hand in some places. I still don't see videos of aisles of products behind glass because of "shoplifting" or other organized retail theft in conservative areas.

So are companies such as Whole Foods or Nordstroms closing stores in conservative cities? It isn't just about the actual level crime, but the response to it. People need to believe that something will be done about it.

There are literally millions more in larger cities, I don't see how you're missing that?

Conservative/rural cities are far more sparsely populated, it's just a matter of logistics. So when you have 26,000 people per mile you are far more likely to have a much higher crime rate than a city of 2000 people per mile. It's the same reason why you get millions more votes on both coasts and in the largest cities, something Conservatives have whined about for generations.

 

[Citysnaps]

Just wondering why people aren't leaving them like they are more liberal cities. Or if they are, why aren't there news stories about it?

In San Francisco that's largely driven by tech-inspired gentrification resulting in huge increases in home prices, rents, and cost of living. That's mostly occurred in SF (and surrounding cities) over the last 15-20 years.

I suspect that's not happening in red states with smaller non-tech oriented cities.

 

[Eric]

In San Francisco that's largely driven by tech-inspired gentrification resulting in huge increases in home prices, rents, and cost of living. That's mostly occurred in SF (and surrounding cities) over the last 15-20 years.

I suspect that's not happening in red states with smaller non-tech oriented cities.

The crime rate is also much higher in all bigger cities, look at Chicago, NY, LA, etc but we know it's due to population density. At the same time they're the most prosperous and fund these poorer rural areas who always vote against their own best interests. We can call out the crime, but it's only fair to also point out the good they do for the rest of the country.

 

[Alli]

The property crime rate in Pensacola FL is 3X that of NYC. Who are we trying to kid here?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Just wondering why people aren't leaving them like they are more liberal cities.

That's an easy one. Because they can't afford to.

 

[GermanSuplex]

The man was telling students on stage with him to remove their masks when it would've hurt nobody to leave them on, it was always about his political appearance, not about prosperity.

REALLY would love to see a Republican who isn't just a total dick bag to everyone around them. Decorum is gone from that party.

He also had the added bonus of making sure he talked down the black kid who was wearing the mask, just to score some extra points with his bigot base.

He’s losing steam faster than any major candidate I’ve seen in quite some time. I never liked the guy, but I thought he’d be hammering Trump and moving to the middle a tad to gin up support. Instead, he’s given weak responses to Trump and continuing his dumb culture wars, which may play out ok in Florida, but probably won’t help him defeat Trump if he decides to jump in the race.

 

[Roller]

There are many reasons for moving to or away from places: climate, cost of living, family, employment, geography, and so on. Florida remains attractive to some, especially retirees seeking to escape winter. But I think younger people, especially women of reproductive age, will be increasingly wary because of Florida's abortion law and its government's intrusion into matters that are best handled by patients and their caregivers. Even if none of those issues concerned me, I'd be put off by the governor's insistence on appointing as surgeon general someone who's been aligned with a group of grifting quacks.

 

[Yoused]

Even if none of those issues concerned me, I'd be put off by the

… humidity.

 

[Roller]

… humidity.

...seaweed.

 

[Nycturne]

That's an easy one. Because they can't afford to.

Agreed, if you look at the folks leaving, they skew more affluent and white. These people are leaving more to take their wealth and stretch it further because they have the ability (remote work).

I would be tempted to call it “White Flight 2.0”. These are my co-workers, not the average joe.

 

[Alli]

If only there were a way to swap living spaces. I have a cousin in Los Angeles who wants out of California. He’d move here, to dark red Alabama in a heartbeat. But he’s lived in apartments his whole life. He would continue doing so here. He’s not going to buy my house so I can go live there.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

What is the actual data about this flight from liberal cities or it in the same category as "prosecutors not charging criminals," "wide open borders," "Biden corruption," etc.?

 

[Nycturne]

What is the actual data about this flight from liberal cities or it in the same category as "prosecutors not charging criminals," "wide open borders," "Biden corruption," etc.?

There was some noticeable shrinkage in population in larger counties early in the pandemic, but it has shifted again more recently. That is generally what is pointed to when talking about “fleeing cities”. However, EIG adds some texture to this by pointing out who is moving out, and the fact that you still have quite a bit of migration to these cities which is helping to continue population growth after a weird 2020 to 2021 period which marked the start of remote work for white collar, affluent folks.

To be honest, I could move to place where my equity would buy me a house twice as big. If I could do that without having to disconnect from everyone I know and care about as a side effect, and creating issues for my partner’s career… I’d be tempted.

EDIT: The general issue I’m seeing is more of an unaffordability crisis in my area. Housing is expensive, and single family zoning rules make it hard to increase the housing supply. Public transit underserves folks, meaning more time is spent in traffic due to sprawl thanks to the above zoning rules. Now, we’re seeing some major changes to those zoning rules and we do have more light rail and express bus service being built out, but it will take years to have an impact. No idea if SF is following suit, but the whole point of the Seattle area doing this is to avoid becoming the next SF.

2020 -> 2021

Where Counties are Growing

Percent change in population by county: 2020 to 2021.

www.census.gov

Working Age White Americans Exited Large Cities in Far Higher Numbers Than Any Other Group in 2021

In the aggregate, white Americans were more inclined to move a greater distance from urban areas than Blacks or Hispanics in 2021.

eig.org

2021 -> 2022

Growth in the Nation’s Largest Counties Rebounds in 2022

Counties with large colleges and universities experience population gains once again.

www.census.gov

As Major Cities Struggle to Rebound, Remote Work Continues to Shift Population Growth

by Adam Ozimek and Connor O'Brien Key Findings Though large urban counties have not yet rebounded from large population outflows experienced in 2020 and 2021, they did nearly halt overall population loss in 2022, buoyed by more normal rates of international migration. Exurban and suburban...

eig.org

 

[Herdfan]

What is the actual data about this flight from liberal cities or it in the same category as "prosecutors not charging criminals," "wide open borders," "Biden corruption," etc.?

There is actual census & taxpayer data. It isn't pretty for some Blue states.

Illinois - Lost $10.9B in AGI in 2021. Up from a loss of $8B and $6B in 2020 & 2019. Total AGI lost - $24.9B

New York - Lost $24.5B in AGI in 2021, up from $19.5B and $9B in '20 & '19. Total AGI lost - $53B

California - Lost $29.1B in AGI in 2021, triple the loss from 2019.

That is a lot of AGI going to:

Florida: $39.5B, $23.7B, & $17.7B for a total gain of $80.9B in AGI since 2019.
Texas: $21.2B gain since 2019.

There are more details in the article about how much FL gained from NY & IL & CA.

Here is the WSJ link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-j-b-pritzker-taxes-states-irs-ec3da356

I am torn on whether or not this is a good thing. On one hand, high tax states are going to have a reckoning if this trend keeps up. They are either going to have to cut services or raise taxes.

But if these people moving from NY to FL get there and then vote in the same people they were electing in their previous state, well you can imagine........

 

[Yoused]

Now the party of "deregulate private business" feels the need to supervise somebody's slidy glidy toy.

Vendetta off the rails? Gov. DeSantis protects Floridians from Disney monorail

Frank Cerabino's column: Some people have erroneously imagined that the state government is taking control of the Disney monorail system due solely to a puerile vendetta one emotionally stunted adult…

www.palmbeachpost.com

 

[Roller]

There is actual census & taxpayer data. It isn't pretty for some Blue states.

Illinois - Lost $10.9B in AGI in 2021. Up from a loss of $8B and $6B in 2020 & 2019. Total AGI lost - $24.9B

New York - Lost $24.5B in AGI in 2021, up from $19.5B and $9B in '20 & '19. Total AGI lost - $53B

California - Lost $29.1B in AGI in 2021, triple the loss from 2019.

That is a lot of AGI going to:

Florida: $39.5B, $23.7B, & $17.7B for a total gain of $80.9B in AGI since 2019.
Texas: $21.2B gain since 2019.

There are more details in the article about how much FL gained from NY & IL & CA.

Here is the WSJ link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/illinois-j-b-pritzker-taxes-states-irs-ec3da356

I am torn on whether or not this is a good thing. On one hand, high tax states are going to have a reckoning if this trend keeps up. They are either going to have to cut services or raise taxes.

But if these people moving from NY to FL get there and then vote in the same people they were electing in their previous state, well you can imagine........

I wonder how many of the people going to Florida and Texas will regret their move when they realize that governments there don't have their or their family's best interests in mind. Less than a year has gone by since SCOTUS overturned Roe v Wade, opening the door for highly restrictive abortion laws to take effect. It'll take some time for that to influence migration, but it will happen.

 

[Yoused]

I wonder how many of the people going to Florida and Texas will regret their move when they realize that governments there don't have their or their family's best interests in mind.

Some. But, consider how it is when someone buys a car/pickup: they want to believe that they made the right choice, to have faith in themself, which means the buyer will tolerate a whole lot of flaws in order maintain self-respect. And resettling is a fairly enormous decision for your average person.

 

[Eric]

I wonder how many of the people going to Florida and Texas will regret their move when they realize that governments there don't have their or their family's best interests in mind. Less than a year has gone by since SCOTUS overturned Roe v Wade, opening the door for highly restrictive abortion laws to take effect. It'll take some time for that to influence migration, but it will happen.

I've always maintained that I would never let a state's political leanings dictate whether I would move there or not, but in recent years that's changed completely. Many of these red states have gone full Fascist and will dictate how you can live your life with several stringent and legal rules in place, just not worth it if you want to be who you are without Republicans all up in your personal business, but if you want to shoot up a bunch of school children or malls then they're ideal.