Ron DeSantis: What in the ever loving fuck is wrong with him?

[Nycturne]

I wonder how many of the people going to Florida and Texas will regret their move when they realize that governments there don't have their or their family's best interests in mind. Less than a year has gone by since SCOTUS overturned Roe v Wade, opening the door for highly restrictive abortion laws to take effect. It'll take some time for that to influence migration, but it will happen.

Well, when talking about the affluent white collar worker, how many see it as a feature rather than a bug?

 

[Herdfan]

I've always maintained that I would never let a state's political leanings dictate whether I would move there or not, but in recent years that's changed completely. Many of these red states have gone full Fascist and will dictate how you can live your life with several stringent and legal rules in place, just not worth it if you want to be who you are without Republicans all up in your personal business, but if you want to shoot up a bunch of school children or malls then they're ideal.

Funny because that is exactly how we view Blue states.

But I think the reality is that both Red & Blue try to control your lives, but in different ways. Take NY at this moment. They are doing their damnedest to ban gas appliances. And not just stoves, but furnaces. They seem to be OK with someone's heating bill tripling because they have to use electric heat. That person may feel differently. @lizkat isn't around much, but would like to hear her take on this as she uses propane for heat. Would she be happy being forced to convert to electric heat? It gets COLD where she lives.

I wonder how many of the people going to Florida and Texas will regret their move when they realize that governments there don't have their or their family's best interests in mind.

I don't want a Government that has my "best" interests in mind. I want a Government that leaves me the hell alone.

There is a reason the joke about the 3 biggest lies with one of them being "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you." exists.

But some will like the lower taxes and will ignore other issues because they have more money. Others won't. That is why we have 50 to choose from. But I know from recent personal experience, it is a PITA to move across the country. Especially if an employer is not footing the bill.

 

[Nycturne]

They are doing their damnedest to ban gas appliances. And not just stoves, but furnaces.

While I think an outright ban here is a bit premature, targeting new buildings for changes like this isn't uncommon. Newer buildings are better equipped to handle the efficiency requirements that would benefit from heat pumps and as we seal up apartments and the like better and better to drive energy costs down, gas stoves get worse and worse for indoor air as overhead vents tend to be undersized (and you need circulation for them to be good at their job).

They seem to be OK with someone's heating bill tripling because they have to use electric heat

This is going to be a strongly regional thing. We have an older house that still does a "good" job trapping CO2 from the gas stove too much, so we will be replacing it with electric when the time comes (returning it back the way it was when it was built, pretty much). I also do 3D printing, so we keep track of particulates and VOCs as well just to ensure we aren't getting dosed by that.

When we wanted to add AC to our central air, we decided on a heat pump. The natural gas furnace is still there as a backup, but doesn't get used except on the absolute coldest days, but our bills dropped by nearly 20$ a month through the winter, despite us paying a monthly baseline to the gas provider which places a floor of about 20$ a month on our bill if we use 0 gas that month. Electricity is cheap up here.

Heat pumps are strictly better than electric heat + AC in terms of energy costs (although electric heaters are cheap enough you can use it as a backup heat source to avoid having to get the high end SEER ratings on your units depending on the math), and depending on the region may even be cheaper than gas. But it depends. I don't really have a huge concern with this sort of thing being handled on a regional basis, especially if finances look more favorable in some regions versus others.

That said, I don't know what the finances look like for heat pumps vs gas in NY.

 

[Eric]

Funny because that is exactly how we view Blue states.

But I think the reality is that both Red & Blue try to control your lives, but in different ways. Take NY at this moment. They are doing their damnedest to ban gas appliances. And not just stoves, but furnaces. They seem to be OK with someone's heating bill tripling because they have to use electric heat. That person may feel differently. @lizkat isn't around much, but would like to hear her take on this as she uses propane for heat. Would she be happy being forced to convert to electric heat? It gets COLD where she lives.

There's a big difference between a woman's vagina or a person's gender identity and a gas stove. Republicans want to legislate the human body, I'll take the increased utility bill, just let humans be humans without all the overreach simply because if offends you.

 

[Herdfan]

While I think an outright ban here is a bit premature, targeting new buildings for changes like this isn't uncommon. Newer buildings are better equipped to handle the efficiency requirements that would benefit from heat pumps and as we seal up apartments and the like better and better to drive energy costs down, gas stoves get worse and worse for indoor air as overhead vents tend to be undersized (and you need circulation for them to be good at their job).

You should always use a vent fan when using a gas stove. People don't, but should.

But I do agree that new buildings that are very well air-sealed will certainly help.

This is going to be a strongly regional thing. We have an older house that still does a "good" job trapping CO2 from the gas stove too much, so we will be replacing it with electric when the time comes (returning it back the way it was when it was built, pretty much). I also do 3D printing, so we keep track of particulates and VOCs as well just to ensure we aren't getting dosed by that.

When we wanted to add AC to our central air, we decided on a heat pump. The natural gas furnace is still there as a backup, but doesn't get used except on the absolute coldest days, but our bills dropped by nearly 20$ a month through the winter, despite us paying a monthly baseline to the gas provider which places a floor of about 20$ a month on our bill if we use 0 gas that month. Electricity is cheap up here.

Heat pumps are strictly better than electric heat + AC in terms of energy costs (although electric heaters are cheap enough you can use it as a backup heat source to avoid having to get the high end SEER ratings on your units depending on the math), and depending on the region may even be cheaper than gas. But it depends. I don't really have a huge concern with this sort of thing being handled on a regional basis, especially if finances look more favorable in some regions versus others.

That said, I don't know what the finances look like for heat pumps vs gas in NY.

Yes, definitely a regional thing. But the region NY is in gets COLD. A HP will not cut it. It will have to have some form of supplemental heat, usually resistance heat tabs where you can almost hear your electric meter spinning. HP's are great if the average lows don't get much below 40 in the winter. But beyond that, they simply can't keep up.

There's a big difference between a woman's vagina or a person's gender identity and a gas stove. Republicans want to legislate the human body, I'll take the increased utility bill, just let humans be humans without all the overreach simply because if offends you.

But CA bans abortion at fetal viability. Which is fine. But your next door neighbor Oregon has no limits. Baby due this week, nope, let's abort it. Are you really OK with that?

I know most of you think she is an idiot, but sometimes Sinema says something profound. She basically said the reason the parties have gone to the extremes is because that is where the money is. No one gives money to a moderate, they give it to someone who will champion their causes, left or right.

I am personally not against abortion, but do think there should be some limits. I would prefer 20 weeks, but am OK with 24. But we will never get there because the argument is None vs. No Limits. There is no compromise. And this lack of compromise is going to doom this country and the blame will be on both parties.

 

[fooferdoggie]

But CA bans abortion at fetal viability. Which is fine. But your next door neighbor Oregon has no limits. Baby due this week, nope, let's abort it. Are you really OK with that?

That does not happen and has not happened in many years. when it does happen it's because the fetus is not viable.

 

[Roller]

I don't want a Government that has my "best" interests in mind. I want a Government that leaves me the hell alone.

You mean like the state governments that passed strict abortion bans are leaving women alone, endangering their lives even if they're carrying wanted pregnancies that have gone bad?

But CA bans abortion at fetal viability. Which is fine. But your next door neighbor Oregon has no limits. Baby due this week, nope, let's abort it. Are you really OK with that?

Third trimester abortions aren't done under those circumstances.

I am personally not against abortion, but do think there should be some limits. I would prefer 20 weeks, but am OK with 24. But we will never get there because the argument is None vs. No Limits. There is no compromise. And this lack of compromise is going to doom this country and the blame will be on both parties.

Every medical professional I've ever worked with believes there should be a limit, except in extraordinary circumstances where the mother's life is in serious danger.

 

[Roller]

Some. But, consider how it is when someone buys a car/pickup: they want to believe that they made the right choice, to have faith in themself, which means the buyer will tolerate a whole lot of flaws in order maintain self-respect. And resettling is a fairly enormous decision for your average person.

Sure, after someone's already made the move. But these issues will influence people who are looking to go to a different state, as well as their children.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

While I think an outright ban here is a bit premature, targeting new buildings for changes like this isn't uncommon. Newer buildings are better equipped to handle the efficiency requirements that would benefit from heat pumps and as we seal up apartments and the like better and better to drive energy costs down, gas stoves get worse and worse for indoor air as overhead vents tend to be undersized (and you need circulation for them to be good at their job).



This is going to be a strongly regional thing. We have an older house that still does a "good" job trapping CO2 from the gas stove too much, so we will be replacing it with electric when the time comes (returning it back the way it was when it was built, pretty much). I also do 3D printing, so we keep track of particulates and VOCs as well just to ensure we aren't getting dosed by that.

When we wanted to add AC to our central air, we decided on a heat pump. The natural gas furnace is still there as a backup, but doesn't get used except on the absolute coldest days, but our bills dropped by nearly 20$ a month through the winter, despite us paying a monthly baseline to the gas provider which places a floor of about 20$ a month on our bill if we use 0 gas that month. Electricity is cheap up here.

Heat pumps are strictly better than electric heat + AC in terms of energy costs (although electric heaters are cheap enough you can use it as a backup heat source to avoid having to get the high end SEER ratings on your units depending on the math), and depending on the region may even be cheaper than gas. But it depends. I don't really have a huge concern with this sort of thing being handled on a regional basis, especially if finances look more favorable in some regions versus others.

That said, I don't know what the finances look like for heat pumps vs gas in NY.

My parents moved to a house built in 2014 and between 10 ft ceilings and whatever the latest in insulation technology was at the time they rarely have to turn on the thermostat in either direction. Granted, in a mild climate region but living in the same region I’m usually playing with the thermostat In an older house.

Then they went solar and that pretty much solves any energy usage concerns not the mention zero worry about a power grid outage.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Hold up. More people moving to/back to California.

Mass exodus? Recent data shows more people moving to California

We've been tracking all the studies showing how many people have left California since the start of the pandemic, but depending on where you look, some narratives seem worse than others. In fact, some of the latest numbers show more people moving to California.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Eric]

My parents moved to a house built in 2014 and between 10 ft ceilings and whatever the latest in insulation technology was at the time they rarely have to turn on the thermostat in either direction. Granted, in a mild climate region but living in the same region I’m usually playing with the thermostat In an older house.

Then they went solar and that pretty much solves any energy usage concerns not the mention zero worry about a power grid outage.

Nice. Solar is now part of the building codes here, the house we're about to move into has it as well which helps with the high costs of PG&E. As I understand it, to meet the new standards a home either needs solar or a minimum of 6 inch wall thickness to further insulate it. You're right about the climate being moderate which really helps but now that summers are hotter having AC is almost a must, even in the more moderate areas of the Bay Area.

 

[Nycturne]

You should always use a vent fan when using a gas stove. People don't, but should.

Agree, but as I pointed out in my post already, the vent needs to be used in a way that circulates air into the home as well, which is less likely during times of year that someone is using heating or cooling. Put your finger on the end of a straw and try to suck air through it and see how well it works. And I think folks would be surprised how many homes don't have enough ventilation to deal with CO2 build-up, as it's only started getting more attention recently.

Our older home that's been retrofitted to be more efficient requires regular ventilation even when we aren't cooking, which can cause really bad spikes.

HP's are great if the average lows don't get much below 40 in the winter. But beyond that, they simply can't keep up.

Depends on the heat pump. They are getting more effective with higher SEER ratings which enable colder weather use, and as R744 (CO2) re-enters use as refrigerant for home units, you'll see much better cold weather performance due to the improved heat capacity it provides.

That said, furnaces don't vent the combustion gases straight into the home, so I generally have less of a problem with them. We don't have a cold weather heat pump precisely because we use natural gas as our backup heat for the moment.

 

[Yoused]

I think folks would be surprised how many homes don't have enough ventilation to deal with CO2 build-up, as it's only started getting more attention recently.

Well, for certain values of "recently". Heat exchangers have been around for more than a couple years, since shortly after code started mandating tyvek wrap on everything. Of course, those require juice (for the fans), so your house will tend to get unpleasant if the power goes out.

My former HS, built (finished) in 1969, is now a grass field with no indication that it was ever there. They turned it into a middle school, due to declining enrollment, the closed the middle school and shuttered the building. It was so tightly built that the inside became overrun with toxic black mold and they had to raze it. Luckily, I had one last chance to look at it, when Gus van Zant filmed Elephant using te building. It was quite the jolt when I realized what I was seeing.

 

[Herdfan]

Our older home that's been retrofitted to be more efficient requires regular ventilation even when we aren't cooking, which can cause really bad spikes.

Do you have a fresh air intake? That will fix it. Plus running the fan on a schedule helps as well.

Depends on the heat pump. They are getting more effective with higher SEER ratings which enable colder weather use, and as R744 (CO2) re-enters use as refrigerant for home units, you'll see much better cold weather performance due to the improved heat capacity it provides.

My HVAC guy "hates" me. I refuse to go full SEER on units. They simply don't heat/cool as well. So yeah they may save energy when running, in come cases they have to run more to make the house comfortable. Plus there are more electronics to fail.

In a perfect world, ground source HP's would be standard. Very efficient and don't need supplemental heat. But no way to do it on today's postage stamp lots.

 

[Nycturne]

Well, for certain values of "recently". Heat exchangers have been around for more than a couple years, since shortly after code started mandating tyvek wrap on everything. Of course, those require juice (for the fans), so your house will tend to get unpleasant if the power goes out.

I was more referring to indoor air quality. We've been on a tear making buildings more and more sealed over the last few decades (it's not like housing is a consumable, thankfully), and it's been in the last 5-10 years I've started seeing the discussion on indoor CO2 and particulate impacts of doing this.

Do you have a fresh air intake? That will fix it. Plus running the fan on a schedule helps as well.

Older house from the 60s that's been slowly retrofit 10 ways from Sunday before we ever got a hold of it.

If you are talking about an HVAC fresh air intake, it's pulling from the crawlspace to "meet code". We weren't even able to run the fan independently of the rest of the system until we had the heat pump put in and we have been using it to run smoke-filled air through the system and let the filters capture the particulates, but running the fan without opening a window seems to just spread the CO2 around and avoid hot spots that we used to have (2000ppm in the kitchen when cooking with the vent on). CO2 never really gets under 800ppm unless weather is good enough to open windows.

There's no good replacement for data on this stuff. It's eye opening to be honest at just how bad indoor air quality can be. And as I said, because I'm doing 3D printing as well which has its own air quality issues when doing it in living spaces, I've ponied up for one of the nicer consumer air quality sensors so I can pay attention to the different stuff floating around in the work space. I've got years of data showing me exactly what impact different approaches have on indoor air quality.

My HVAC guy "hates" me. I refuse to go full SEER on units. They simply don't heat/cool as well. So yeah they may save energy when running, in come cases they have to run more to make the house comfortable. Plus there are more electronics to fail.

SEER is an efficiency rating. Not sure what you are actually thinking of here, but I think you might be mixing up two different bits of terminology?

In a perfect world, ground source HP's would be standard. Very efficient and don't need supplemental heat. But no way to do it on today's postage stamp lots.

Not as a refit, no. With house prices, I've been tempted by the idea that if we want something bigger, we just rebuild on the lot we have. I'd seriously consider including a ground source heat pump at that point.

 

[Herdfan]

SEER is an efficiency rating. Not sure what you are actually thinking of here, but I think you might be mixing up two different bits of terminology?

Nope. I have just found the higher efficiency simply don't work as well. And if you compare the price difference and estimate the lifespan, they don't save you money.

Now, with that said, you don't buy the lowest SEER either. Right now, I wouldn't buy a 22 SEER. Too many electronics. I would probably go for a 17 or so.

But to my point, and I guess some of my experience is based on humidity. The higher SEER's use 2-stages. So the low stage might cool OK, but it is not removing the humidity. So it may get your house to 70, but it still won't feel as comfortable as you might want because of the humidity. So I prefer a single stage that will pull the moisture out of the air. Now moving to AZ, they might work just fine.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The blatant discrimination of Ron DeSantis’s anti-China housing law

DeSantis wants to beef up his "tough on China" cred. The result is a racist law.

www.vox.com

For full transparency, I do have a problem with foreign investment from any country contributing to the housing crisis.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

There is actual census & taxpayer data. It isn't pretty for some Blue states.

Illinois - Lost $10.9B in AGI in 2021. Up from a loss of $8B and $6B in 2020 & 2019. Total AGI lost - $24.9B

New York - Lost $24.5B in AGI in 2021, up from $19.5B and $9B in '20 & '19. Total AGI lost - $53B

California - Lost $29.1B in AGI in 2021, triple the loss from 2019.

That is a lot of AGI going to:

Florida: $39.5B, $23.7B, & $17.7B for a total gain of $80.9B in AGI since 2019.

Maybe Florida is not such a great place to live. Just watched this video: Florida Home Buyers BLINDSIDED By TREMENDOUS Cost To Own

The speaker cites the various money pitfalls of living in Florida, causing many to have their life savings wiped out. Basically because of the frequent hurricanes and tropical storms, many insurance companies have gone bankrupt and home owners face large premium increases if they're lucky enough to get insurance. Also, Florida has mandated flood insurance, even for those not living in a high risk flood zone. Finally, while there is no state income tax, there have been large property tax increases.

 

[Nycturne]

Finally, while there is no state income tax, there have been large property tax increases.

Washington isn't much better. We have one of the most regressive tax structures in the union. While my property taxes haven't gone up as a percentage of value, they have doubled due to the strain on the housing market jacking up costs.

That said, on one hand we're banning single-family zoning rules in the state to try to get some downward pressure on housing prices and rent. Except for the wealthiest NIMBYs we've got. :|

 

[GermanSuplex]

Someone is going to need to explain to me how Florida is all that much better than Illinois, New York or California. In any way, really.

Yeah, there's figures and tax rates for certain things you can point to, but any given state can shoot back with stats of their own.

Bottom line, you see the same stuff coming out of Florida as you do cities like SF, NYC, LA and Chicago. Same goes for Texas and their showboating governor.

These guys are void of the values they pretend to promote.

It seems a DeSantis announcement is imminent. We'll see what he does, so far, most people have been largely unimpressed. He seems weak and unlikely to take on Trump, which I don't see how he can beat Trump by being a weaker clone of him.

I'm not writing him off by a long shot, he just seems like an oaf who's really a one-trick pony, sticking it to liberals. He panders to the same racists and idiots as Trump and while he may be easier to digest for some moderates and independents, going through a primary against Trump may write off some of those gains. Who knows.