So I got Covid 😒

[User.45]

The problem we have is that, although the country has plenty of sane adults (and young'uns), they inherently do not make nearly as much noise as the idiot minority.

Spot on.

 

[AG_PhamD]

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@P_X already addressed your other statements beautifully. But this is pure, unadulterated BS. You won't be able to pull up any quotes showing this unless you do a FOX-style hatchet job. The most perfect example is:


Why would anyone trust Mango when he said that COVID-19 would disappear when it got warmer? When he suggested:



And then he added this polished turd:



Dr. Birx was incredulous behind the moron and couldn't keep a straight face. He then went on to challenge the doctors that tried to show deference to the office by saying that that wasn't the kind of work that they're engaged in. He always has to have the last word: "Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't work."

No, there is no question that he is a moron and any sane adult would question anything that he said about COVID-19.

I hate this discussions that are based on a false dichotomy.

The President is not the FDA. S/he does not approve or deny drug applications for use. I see no reality where the FDA denies or doesn’t yet approve a drug, the the President steps in and says “no, actually it’s approved”, the courts do nothing to address the blatant overstepping of POTUS’s authority, the manufacturer just goes along with it churning out the drug knowing if there’s indeed a problem with it they will be held responsible (and the scale of damage from a catastrophic COVID vaccine would likely ruin them). Insurers, PBMs, hospital admins, major pharmacy wholesaler + chains, healthcare providers all accept the the word of scientifically illiterate buffoon who just usurped the FDA authority? The scenario where the President would be telling the public to get vaccinated but the medical/science community was not is so… preposterous I don’t even know why some would make that comment.

No new drug is going anywhere without the input and approval of people that actually know what they’re talking about.

But for the people who take things at face value, don’t understand the drug approval and marketing process, and blindly listen to leaders they put their trust in, it’s frankly a dangerous comment.

And just because I criticize one side does not mean the other side isn’t worthy of criticism too. I watched that press conference live and told myself these are the ramblings of someone who knows nothing.

Honestly, his verbal diarrhea about putting bleach and UV lights inside the body is probably one of the more benign instances of his spreading of nonsense as I think most people recognized what he was saying was beyond reasonable. Suggesting the virus was engineered, instigating the anti-mask movement, minimizing its severity, etc. He had press conferences where he would directly refute information provided by his own expert advisors.

You can go back to MR and there are posts of me excoriating the stupidity of hydroxychloroquine interest based on garbage studies that if even a 5th read beyond the misleading abstracts and conclusions would realize is absolute nonsense- in some cases raising more concerns about the researchers COVID testing accuracy than anything related to therapeutics.

What it comes down to is that nearly all politicians have zero medical training. They are not practitioners, they are no scientists, they are not epidemiologists or virologists. They should not be taken as the voice of authority on medical or epidemiological matters. Why anyone would listen to politicians over the appointed experts and experts in academia and healthcare is beyond me.

Now that the Biden administration is in power it’s good to see most of the public health information being conveyed by public health officials who know what they’re talking about.

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Very much true. It’s that phenomenon where people’s beliefs on either side are so far to the extreme they end up in effect sharing the same beliefs.

My favorite of the second category was years ago. She announced she had decided to stop taking her lithium. I asked why. She told me she wants to only take natural medicines. It’s hard to get much more natural than lithium; an element. (Okay, technically the med is in a salt form, lithium carbonate, but that’s naturally occurring too).

 

[Pumbaa]

But for the people who take things at face value, don’t understand the drug approval and marketing process, and blindly listen to leaders they put their trust in, it’s frankly a dangerous comment.

How do you feel about misrepresenting the comment/outright lying about it? Any danger in that for the people who take things at face value?

 

[User.45]

How do you feel about misrepresenting the comment/outright lying about it? Any danger in that for the people who take things at face value?

Ironically, I was hoping he wasn't referring to the comments by Harris, but it appears he indeed was. Even the above train of thought doesn't even jive with the history of the last 2 years, when Trump pressured the FDA commissioner to misrepresent convalescent plasma data on a press conference. Or Trump's well-documented efforts and public comments to influence the vaccine approval process. Missing half the story but demanding "full context" from others...

 

[SuperMatt]

The scenario where the President would be telling the public to get vaccinated but the medical/science community was not is so… preposterous I don’t even know why some would make that comment.

Is it more or less preposterous than the President telling people to inject disinfectant, suggest some miracle cure involving shining bright lights, and telling people not to wear masks… in fact mocking those who did wear masks?

It seems like you weren’t paying close attention to Trump’s behavior in regards to the pandemic, nor to the fact that he was installing loyalists at almost every level of the government. Hell, he was calling Secretaries of State and telling them to “find votes” to help him win an election. You think he’d have a problem pressuring agencies, and firing those who refuse to release a vaccine before it was safe to? Really?

Preposterous would be oerhaps the BEST term to describe the entirety of Trump’s COVID-19 resoonse.

 

[Huntn]

The risk of blood clots as well as thrombocytopenia (low platelet count) exist with the vaccines. That said, the risk also exists with COVID infection.

For example, in a study of 30k people- some unvaccinated, some with Pfizer, some with AZ vax- the Pfizer vaccine resulted in ~140 ischemic strokes. Meanwhile, in the unvaccinated, there were 1700 strokes.

Whether it be clots, thrombocytopenia, myocarditis, the risk from infections is substantially greater from infection than vaccination.

I think this whole pandemic has highlighted the much of public’s lack of scientific and medical literacy. It’s a problem and these are the consequences.

Welcome to the forum!
For example, in a study of 30k people- some unvaccinated, some with Pfizer, some with AZ vax- the Pfizer vaccine resulted in ~140 ischemic strokes. Meanwhile, in the unvaccinated, there were 1700 strokes.

I remember at one point some anti-vax argument that the vaccination was causing these strokes as a reason not be be vaccinated. I’m not familiar with stroke vs ischemic stroke. In your example you are saying that while being vaccinated 140 suffered ischemic strokes, and unvaccinated suffered 1700 strokes. Are these strokes all COVID related or can you you have this kind of a stroke unrelated to COVID? In any case the as an anti-vax argument, I assume you consider this a false argument? That statistically you are at lower overall risk by being vaccinated.

And maybe you will agree that most, much, or a substantial portion of the resistance to being vaccinated has to do with poison at the top of elected Federal leadership, inconsistent messaging, and the attempts to pretend that COVID was not worthy of concern which is precisely what The Head Shit did in early 2020?

 

[User.45]

Welcome to the forum!
For example, in a study of 30k people- some unvaccinated, some with Pfizer, some with AZ vax- the Pfizer vaccine resulted in ~140 ischemic strokes. Meanwhile, in the unvaccinated, there were 1700 strokes.

I remember at one point some anti-vax argument that the vaccination was causing these strokes as a reason not be be vaccinated. I’m not familiar with stroke vs ischemic stroke. In your example you are saying that while being vaccinated 140 suffered ischemic strokes, and unvaccinated suffered 1700 strokes. Are these strokes all COVID related or can you you have this kind of a stroke unrelated to COVID? In any case the as an anti-vax argument, I assume you consider this a false argument? That statistically you are at lower overall risk by being vaccinated.

Stroke = "brain attack": a clinical diagnosis of a sudden onset neurologic deficit, analogous to what people call a heart attack.
Ischemic stroke: brain infract developing due to the loss of blood circulation to a vascular territory in the brain. Per definition this is no longer a clinical diagnosis as you have to have a test to prove the presence of the infarct (MRI by standard).
There are hemorrhagic strokes as alternative where the brain attack is caused by a bleed into the intracranial cavity.

COVID causes increased tendency for blood clotting, thus increases risk for ischemic stroke (clots blocking brain arteries). Some vaccines like the AZD was associated with slight elevation in blood clotting tendencies. More than a 1000x less than the actual disease.

 

[Runs For Fun]

Some vaccines like the AZD was associated with slight elevation in blood clotting tendencies. More than a 1000x less than the actual disease.

A key point all of the vaccine misinformation seems to ignore.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Welcome to the forum!
For example, in a study of 30k people- some unvaccinated, some with Pfizer, some with AZ vax- the Pfizer vaccine resulted in ~140 ischemic strokes. Meanwhile, in the unvaccinated, there were 1700 strokes.

I remember at one point some anti-vax argument that the vaccination was causing these strokes as a reason not be be vaccinated. I’m not familiar with stroke vs ischemic stroke. In your example you are saying that while being vaccinated 140 suffered ischemic strokes, and unvaccinated suffered 1700 strokes. Are these strokes all COVID related or can you you have this kind of a stroke unrelated to COVID? In any case the as an anti-vax argument, I assume you consider this a false argument? That statistically you are at lower overall risk by being vaccinated.

And maybe you will agree that most, much, or a substantial portion of the resistance to being vaccinated has to do with poison at the top of elected Federal leadership, inconsistent messaging, and the attempts to pretend that COVID was not worthy of concern which is precisely what The Head Shit did in early 2020?

Assuming the groups in the study were well matched, the number of strokes independent of vaccines and COVID would be similar. We know vaccines and COVID both cause clots. But as you can see there is a huge difference in the prevalence.

Ischemic strokes are those where clots block blood vessels partially or completely cutting off the blood flow. This is opposed to hemorrhagic strokes caused by bursting vessels.

I think there a lot of reasons why people don’t get vaccinated. In some cases it’s due to a lack of trust, conspiracy theories, and some sort political grandstanding. With COVID and historically, some of the biggest factors are overconfidence in one’s health (if I get sick I’ll be fine or I never get sick), flawed risk assessments (the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease), a lack of appreciation for collective responsibility, and sometimes it’s just a lack of access.

Unfortunately, this isn’t really unique to vaccines either. There’s plenty of people who are diagnosed with conditions who refuse to take medicine reliably or at all. Compliance rates with diseases like hypertension and diabetes are around 50%. In fact, 20-30% of new prescriptions never get filled. Costs and other factors of course can be a factor here. But for a lot of people, they just don’t seem to value healthcare the way you’d expect.

 

[Yoused]

There is some indication that certain cannabinoids block the virus from binding to cells (interfere with the spike protein). These are the CBGA and CBDA compounds, which are the non-deoxycarbolated compounds, which means raw cannabis, the kind that does not mess with your head (doobs or happy candy will not work). The tests are apparently in vitro, so they cannot say for sure that it would actually work in the bloodstream.

 

[User.168]

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[AG_PhamD]

Even more preposterous is that he has publicly admitted that he had the booster shot after being fully vaccinated and has even called out fellow GOP politicians to be stop being wusses and publicly disclose their vaccination status. I am not even sure how a Trump supporter could be against vaccines at this point in time, unless they are complete imbeciles...

If the shoe fits, I guess.

Yeah, I don’t understand this phenomenon. Trump practically claims to have personally developed the vaccines, you’d think his fervent supporters would accept the vaccine for that reason.

Prior to the pandemic you had two major types of anti-vaxxers- usually left wing people that only believe in natural medicine and organic food and far right members with extreme religious beliefs.

Maybe it has to do with the phenomenon of fringe groups pushing both parties further in their respective directions. The most radical right push the idea you don’t need the vaccine and in order for the rest of the right to demonstrate their commitment to the party they get sucked into that belief.

Maybe it’s as simple as because Biden is pushing the vaccine as good, so the Trump people must view it as bad.

That said, people over age 50, especially 65+ have pretty high vaccination rates. It’s when you get under 49, especially under 40 is where the numbers start looking not so great- under 18 where things are really bad.

 

[User.168]

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[AG_PhamD]

If I were an aluminium foil hat wearing "philosopher", I would have suspicions that certain members of the GOP leadership believe that extending the pandemic may be beneficial to them in winning the mid terms and eventually the 2024 election.

I do believe that if it weren't for COVID, the US would be enjoying DJ Trump's second term in office.

I’m not sure I believe the lay people in the GOP would make that calculation, but indeed among the leadership that could be a possibility. That said, having your voters die doesn’t seem like the most well thought out strategy.

I agree, without COVID Trump’s second term would be likely. It would be interesting to see what the vaccination rates would be like in that alternate reality.

 

[SuperMatt]

You’re both wrong on Trump in 2020. It’s possible if he handled COVID-19 like an adult who cared about his country instead of a toddler making everything worse, he could have won some independents over. But his approval was in the toilet well before the pandemic. The pandemic was his one chance to turn it around, and he failed more spectacularly than anybody thought possible.

 

[Huntn]

There is some indication that certain cannabinoids block the virus from binding to cells (interfere with the spike protein). These are the CBGA and CBDA compounds, which are the non-deoxycarbolated compounds, which means raw cannabis, the kind that does not mess with your head (doobs or happy candy will not work). The tests are apparently in vitro, so they cannot say for sure that it would actually work in the bloodstream.

Aren’t joints made with raw cannabis?

 

[Huntn]

Yeah, I don’t understand this phenomenon. Trump practically claims to have personally developed the vaccines, you’d think his fervent supporters would accept the vaccine for that reason.

Prior to the pandemic you had two major types of anti-vaxxers- usually left wing people that only believe in natural medicine and organic food and far right members with extreme religious beliefs.

Maybe it has to do with the phenomenon of fringe groups pushing both parties further in their respective directions. The most radical right push the idea you don’t need the vaccine and in order for the rest of the right to demonstrate their commitment to the party they get sucked into that belief.

Maybe it’s as simple as because Biden is pushing the vaccine as good, so the Trump people must view it as bad.

That said, people over age 50, especially 65+ have pretty high vaccination rates. It’s when you get under 49, especially under 40 is where the numbers start looking not so great- under 18 where things are really bad.

I suspect that the ”natural medicine” group is much smaller than the Trump idiots who really don’t have a stand on medicine other than their masters steered them away from it with their manufactured political intrigue.

Typical Trump supporter and their political leadership
The sheep: I U!​

 

[User.168]

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[SuperMatt]

I see your points, but I still reckon he would have taken the election by a slim margin if there was no pandemic.

We will never know what would have happened, that’s true. I hope he either doesn’t run in 2024 or if he does run, that he loses.

 

[ronntaylor]

I hate suppositions. If Hillary had a better candidate Mango would have never held the presidency hostage. Hell, she would have beat an wholly inexperienced candidate with a funny sounding name in 2008.

The truth is that Mango was a horrible, clueless motherfucker that screwed up the response to an emerging Pandemic and ultimate lost bigly.